[batteraziiz]

Quote:

 
about 100 - 200 will be delivered to U.S in next week.

Canada as well?

Thanks for input, James. You're the man!

 

[cyberalpha11]

I'm very glad that James Fiio is a very frank person when comes to technical questions. 

 

[JamesFiiO]

Quote:

Canada as well?

Thanks for input, James. You're the man!

 
June, most of our agents will receive enough X3 in June. 

 

[batteraziiz]

Excellent!

 

[w357]

Quote:

 
June, most of our agents will receive enough X3 in June. 

But i wanna know day - 6th june, 15 june or 30 June?
Pls say to me. When will second wave?

 

[musicday]

Quote:

Quote:

 
June, most of our agents will receive enough X3 in June. 

But i wanna know day - 6th june, 15 june or 30 June?
Pls say to me. When will second wave?

Tell me, after you get the X3 you will go on the DX50 thread and ask the same question? Never is enough isn't it?

 

[bigzippy]

Quote:

 
June, most of our agents will receive enough X3 in June. 

 
Does this include UK? I have contacted two of the official suppliers and they are (at least publicly) unaware of any June stock, or even the product!
 
BZ

 

[BenF]

Quote:

 
I have a WM8740 based desktop DAC (FireStone CustomCute) that sounds and measured as good as the three ES9023 (ODAC, iFi iDAC and UD100) I have. Implementation is the key. In fact, it is more important than what chips a DAC used IMO.
 
As James pointed out, the hardware spec on ES9023 isn't better than WM8740, so there is no inherent benefit to change from WM8740 to ES9023. Instead of focusing what chip is used, it is better to look for way to optimize the current design - and no, I don't think the WM8740 in X3 is at its best sounding (compared to what I have heard on CustomCute). But then again, it is in a portable player so naturally it is not going to be as good sounding as when it is implemented inside a desktop system. There is something to consider - even though ES9023 sounds good as a desktop DAC, it doesn't mean it will sound just as good in a portable device when everything is designed in very tight topology. Even among all the desktop DAC that use WM8740, there are those that sound okay and those that are great. The only plus I see on ESS chip is that they tend to be more highly integrated, so they demand less attention on the circuit around it.
 
WM8741 is pretty much the DSD enable WM8740 with additional digital filter for the most part. The hardware improvement from WM8741 to WM8740 isn't nearly as significant as the price jump (regularly 3~4x more expensive) has suggested. In fact, some higher end manufacturer still stick to WM8740 because they think WM8741 is most a marketing push to phase out the older chip so they can justify selling the newer chip on much higher price. Plus WM8741 sucks up too much power and not suitable for mobile device (> 4x the current draw compared to WM8740). In fact a dual WM8740 configuration is probably cheaper than one WM8741 and still draw less power. In any case, the hardware spec on both chips is well beyond what human hearing can detect. So again, it really is down to the implementation to make sure they can sound as good as possible. The chip itself is less important.

I agree that often implementation is more important than the chip - The One Who's Name Won't Be Mentioned said so himself.
However, with ES9023 there really is no implementation - you pretty much just connect the headphone plug on one end and USB chip on the other.
Look at UD100 and Tiny Hifimediy DAC - there is practically zero effort made.
The extra space could be used for a larger battery.
 
As far as measurements go, they are pretty irrelevant. The difference between a 0.2DB or a 0.3DB channel imbalance or FR deviation is inaudible.
ES9023 compared to WM8740 has an amazing clarity, which is especially noticeable in well-recorded live performances.
You can't measure clarity.
 
It doesn't mean that WM8740 doesn't sound good - it does. The difference between my laptop's headphone amp and E17 is a lot bigger than between E17 and ODAC/Hifimediy.  E17 is a great device, and I'm sure that X3 sounds a lot better than any Sansa or Ipod.

 

[JamesFiiO]

Quote:

 
Does this include UK? I have contacted two of the official suppliers and they are (at least publicly) unaware of any June stock, or even the product!
 
BZ

 
yes, it will be world wide available in July ( sorry for the mistake ) and we have not inform our agents about the X3 by now.

 

[Greed]

Quote:

I agree that often implementation is more important than the chip - The One Who's Name Won't Be Mentioned said so himself.
However, with ES9023 there really is no implementation - you pretty much just connect the headphone plug on one end and USB chip on the other.
Look at UD100 and Tiny Hifimediy DAC - there is practically zero effort made.
The extra space could be used for a larger battery.
 
As far as measurements go, they are pretty irrelevant. The difference between a 0.2DB or a 0.3DB channel imbalance or FR deviation is inaudible.
ES9023 compared to WM8740 has an amazing clarity, which is especially noticeable in well-recorded live performances.
You can't measure clarity.
 
It doesn't mean that WM8740 doesn't sound good - it does. The difference between my laptop's headphone amp and E17 is a lot bigger than between E17 and ODAC/Hifimediy.  E17 is a great device, and I'm sure that X3 sounds a lot better than any Sansa or Ipod.

 
Why are you still arguing about something that has already been stated is not happening? The X3 hasn't been released, and the X5 is a long way from being released, there is no reason to assume the Sabre chip is better when you haven't even heard what FiiO has to offer for its budget DAP. Having a Sabre chip does not mean it will sound better than any of the other DAC chips, period. It has been proved before in both desktop and semi-transportable components. Heck, so of the best DACs in the world, don't use the ES chips... so proclaiming that they are indeed better is false. Implementation is everything. 

 

[ClieOS]

Implementing ES9023 will be a step backward at this point for FiiO. X3 is coming to the market, and X5 will use the top-end TI chip. The only ESS that is worth considering will be ES9018, but I think it has been well implemented in DX100 and HM901 that FiiO just isn't going to touch it for now - they are not know to repeat other companies implementation and rather prefer to pick something not as common. If you haven't noticed, even their lowly E6 is far more complicated (topology wise) than a cmoy implementation and most of their implementations are unique to their own. Anyway, I don't think FiiO needs to preclude ESS as a possible future candidate either, but I also don't think it will happen in any foreseeable near future, at least not in the X series of DAP. If anything, I'll like to see them using it on their desktop or portable DAC first (*believe me that I already asked FiiO to consider ESS 2 years ago).
 
Oh, the second batch X3 has been shipped out - so it is officially released. Those who pre-ordered in China already received their, and the international dealer should too in the next few weeks.
 
p/s, as I have mentioned, WM8740 can sound as clean and clear as ES9023. But you will have to own a CustomCute to realise that.

 

[BenF]

Quote:

 
Why are you still arguing about something that has already been stated is not happening? The X3 hasn't been released, and the X5 is a long way from being released, there is no reason to assume the Sabre chip is better when you haven't even heard what FiiO has to offer for its budget DAP. Having a Sabre chip does not mean it will sound better than any of the other DAC chips, period. It has been proved before in both desktop and semi-transportable components. Heck, so of the best DACs in the world, don't use the ES chips... so proclaiming that they are indeed better is false. Implementation is everything. 

Have you even read the post you quoted?
I agreed with ClieOS that implementation is important
It's not "everything" though, no matter how good implementation is, you can't get from a chip more than it can give.
 
X3 is E17 that can play music. I do own E17 and ES9023-based DACs, so I can compare.
 
What exactly was stated as "not happening"? My question if FIIO plans to release any Sabre-based products is still unanswered.

 

[BenF]

Quote:

Implementing ES9023 will be a step backward at this point for FiiO. X3 is coming to the market, and X5 will use the top-end TI chip. The only ESS that is worth considering will be ES9018, but I think it has been well implemented in DX100 and HM901 that FiiO just isn't going to touch it for now - they are not know to repeat other companies implementation and rather prefer to pick something not as common. If you haven't noticed, even their lowly E6 is far more complicated (topology wise) than a cmoy implementation and most of their implementations are unique to their own. Anyway, I don't think FiiO needs to preclude ESS as a possible future candidate either, but I also don't think it will happen in any foreseeable near future, at least not in the X series of DAP. If anything, I'll like to see them using it on their desktop or portable DAC first.
 
Oh, the second batch X3 has been shipped out - so it is officially released. Those who pre-ordered in China already received their, and the international dealer should too in the next few weeks.
 
p/s, as I have mentioned, WM8740 can sound as clean and clear as ES9023. But you will have to own a CustomCute to realise that.

 
I have checked Custom Cute, but at 299$ it's the same price as ES9018-based Audio-gd NFB-11.32, which also has a very good integrated headphone amp.
Ended up buying the NFB-11.32 this morning

 
Do you plan to review any of the ES9018-based  DACs/DAPs?

 

[zenki14]

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Do you plan to review any of the ES9018-based  DACs/DAPs?

 
I'll do a review on HM901, either this month or early next. However, it won't be posted in the forum (for reason that we shall not go into).