The FiiO X3 Thread UPDATE: Project Back On! Read the First Post for Information.

[bowei006]

FiiO is stocked in more places than it shows on their website as those generally reflect online authorized retailers 
 
10K a month...is a big number. Even if that is the number shipped, the fact that they are continously shipping that much means they are selling but man...10K!? 

 

[doublea71]

If that's the case, then I hope they realize that their 'mainstream' consumer who is only inclined to buy an E6 will likely not be interested in a dap if they already have a smartphone that can play their silly games and such. They have a much better chance of making a lasting impression on audiophiles by catering to this market and forgetting the mainstream market. It's obvious from photos that they won't be making a player with a touch screen; that in itself would turn off nearly all mainstream consumers. Why would they buy the Fiio when they can play angry birds and check their email with what they already have? I don't think they can have it both ways if they intend to make a $200 product. They need to go all-in one way or the other. I am still hopeful that they will make something worth owning.
 

 

[bowei006]

That's a good point but CLIEOS brought up about how it's possible to make a unit profitable even if sales are only in hundreds. Many audiophile players sales yearly are only in hundreds as he said.
 
Anyway, let's see how it goes. There were some circuit problems in the E17 with weird clicking sounds that were there due to design that would happen at high gains so I hope no design problems are in this one.
 
Low impendence? The E5 has some of the lowers near 0 as nwavguy said and what not and is nice. My TF10's hiss a lot on my Mac and even on their new E02i rocky.

 

[doublea71]

Quote:

That's a good point but CLIEOS brought up about how it's possible to make a unit profitable even if sales are only in hundreds. Many audiophile players sales yearly are only in hundreds as he said.
 
Anyway, let's see how it goes. There were some circuit problems in the E17 with weird clicking sounds that were there due to design that would happen at high gains so I hope no design problems are in this one.
 
Low impendence? The E5 has some of the lowers near 0 as nwavguy said and what not and is nice. My TF10's hiss a lot on my Mac and even on their new E02i rocky.

I may be repeating myself a bit (or a lot), but I think they'll sell more if it meets the needs of the audiophile community. If you didn't care about sound, would you spend $200 on an ipod touch with its bells and whistles or a Fiio which can't even play video? If they make a music-dedicated dap with some features audiophiles are looking for (digital line out has been mentioned), they will sell more than they would otherwise. The rest of the world wants touch screens to play with; with the right features, they will convert some current users of cowons/ipod classics/sansas and create a nice amount of buzz. They listened with the E09K, which I will be buying to mate with my E17, and the response has been positive. I'm not sure how that translates into sales, but we already know it's not a mainstream product. Anyways, let's see what happens and hope for the best. Admittedly, I have selfish motives for wanting them to cater to audiophiles, but I think my reasoning is pretty solid.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

I may be repeating myself a bit (or a lot), but I think they'll sell more if it meets the needs of the audiophile community. If you didn't care about sound, would you spend $200 on an ipod touch with its bells and whistles or a Fiio which can't even play video? If they make a music-dedicated dap with some features audiophiles are looking for (digital line out has been mentioned), they will sell more than they would otherwise. The rest of the world wants touch screens to play with; with the right features, they will convert some current users of cowons/ipod classics/sansas and create a nice amount of buzz. They listened with the E09K, which I will be buying to mate with my E17, and the response has been positive. I'm not sure how that translates into sales, but we already know it's not a mainstream product. Anyways, let's see what happens and hope for the best. Admittedly, I have selfish motives for wanting them to cater to audiophiles, but I think my reasoning is pretty solid.

It may be solid but the overal point I felt was that.... this is just reasoning. FiiO has data and statiscs on who actually buys their things..
 
We can reason all we want but none of us(most) aren't people in the business world. I have seen data that I thought would have worked but didn't and all those things. 
 
But I do get what you mean and do agree in some parts

 

[DigitalFreak]

Since everyone here is debating the mainstream consumer i decided to copy and paste a couple of entries I posted in another thread a few weeks ago. The following is a story concerning what happened to me in an Apple store and the reality concerning how mainstream people view gear such as amps and DAP's
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Quote:DigitalFreak Entry 1

I just came back from the Apple Store in a last ditch effort to save my Classic from entering Silicon Heaven. According to the hipster in a blue t-shirt, of whom I didn't like to much attitude wise (more on that in a minute), the Classic is probably not going to make it and will probably not be worth sending in to fix. Usually what they do is wipe the HDD like I did and run it through some diagnostic tests. Considering I already wiped it there's probably not much they can do except trade it in for another model. According to the serial number on my Classic it's a model manufactured in 2005 therefore the best I could hope for if I chose to trade it in would be to get a 50 dollar discount if I choose to buy a new one. Not bad I guess 50 bones saved is 50 bones saved after all.
 
This next part is all about why I don't like hipster wannabe kids and their lack of class. After I got the said information above I began to ask questions about the current Classic and if it had the same DAC and headphone out setup as mine. The blue t-shirt hipster replied with statements such as whats a DAC and why worry about what kind of headphone jack it utilized? In his mind a headphone plug was a headphone plug why worry about it. Yeah OK sure whatever. He next asked if I would consider moving up in the Apple mobile MP3 player chain by buying a iPod Touch. I then responded I already had an iPod Touch and pulled it out of my pocket to show him. Attached to my Touch as always was my Leckerton UHA-4 amp and wound around the rig was my j-Phonic K2 sp IEM's. Upon seeing my amp he then said "Well I see you're using an external battery so your Touch battery must be starting to go. A new Touch would solve the problem and you could stop walking around with such a brick in your pocket." I then informed him the UHA-4 wasn't a external battery and that it was an external amp. He then gives me a puzzled looked and asks why I would want to walk around with an external amp when my Touch doesn't need one. I then reply because the external amp makes my gear sound a lot better then my Touch ever could. Thus far I'm not offended by the guys attitude but the next part did offend me due to the individuals smug attitude.
 
He then rolls his eyes at me and with the stupidest grin I've ever seen he responds and I quote " An iPod is the best sounding MP3 device on the market you really don't need an amp. I know there's a lot of MP3 players out on the market like Sanza Sony and Samsung that sound like crap but our iPods all put them to shame in the sound category." I looked at him rather bemused at first and responded that I had 3 different amps I used with my iPods and they all made my music sound far better then just a lone iPod. I then said that although I liked iPods, and still do I may add, I didn't think they sounded that great and that the internal amp on any iPod was cheap and couldn't push good sounding headphones to their maximum potential. His response....he rolled his eyes at me and replied " Sir I'm an Apple Associate I was hired into this position because I know tech better then the average person. Any iPod you buy from us will give you great high fidelity sound. I personally own a iPod Shuffle and a Touch and I use them with my Beats headphone all the time and they sound awesome. I get a great audiophile quality neutral sound when I use my iPods with my Beats. Maybe what you should do is stop spending your money on external amps and look into quality sounding headphones. Quality sounding headphones really make a huge difference when listening to music.
 
....................
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............................................ (FACE PALM) I think I just died a little inside.
 
I looked at the guy and replied "I'll come back some other time thanks for the advice." He then responded " No problem sir, please give what I said some thought. Come see me again and I'll show you some of our Beats or Bower and Wilkins headphones. You'll be amazed how they sound they'll put those earbuds you're using to shame." My response,"Thanks kid but as a rule I only take advice on audio from someone who knows what a DAC is and my earbuds aren't earbuds they're called IEM's and they're only sold in Japan and cost MSRP 400 dollars. Thanks for your help but I think I'll just see someone else when I come back. Good day."
 
Why do I always seem to run across the dullards in life?

 
Quote:DigitalFreak Entry 2

I was at the mall today doing some shopping and ran face first into of all people the blue shirted Apple Store hipster dude who I talked to at the Apple store about my iPod Classic. I first noticed him in when I was in a lineup waiting to pay for some items. I was in one lineup and he was in another lineup two cash registers over. He was with a girl who looked alot like the chick from Buffy The Vampire Slayer, his girlfriend I guess. I didn't pay much attention to him and continued to go about my business waiting my turn in the lineup while bopping to my music only to suddenly get that feeling you instinctively get when being watched. I looked up suddenly a couple of times and realized for whatever reason the Apple hipster dude seemed to always be glancing at me. His girlfriend, vampire slayer Buffy, also seemed to notice he had his attention on someone else besides her because she glanced my way and then at him with a puzzled look on her face. Any who I got to the cash register pulled out my IEM's, which happened to be the K2 sp shut off my rig and proceeded to pay for my purchases. As I'm walking out of the store I put my IEM's loosely back in and didn't bother turning on the music. Reason being Blue shirt Apple hipster dude and vampire slayer Buffy happened to be a few feet behind me as I'm walking out and I wanted to hear if Apple hipster dude was saying anything about me. What I heard was the following and apparently he was watching me a lot longer then I realized.
 
Vampire Slayer Buffy: You know the guy ahead of us?
Apple Hipster Dude: Why you asking?
Vampire Slayer Buffy: You've been looking at him ever since we walked into the store
Apple Hipster Dude: He was in my store a few days ago. See those ear buds he's wearing?
Vampire Slayer Buffy: Not really but I see a black cord going around the back of his ears. So he's wearing earbuds whats the big deal?
Apple Hipster Dude: He told me he got them in Japan and they cost 400 bucks.
Vampire Slayer Buffy: 400 dollars, he's probably just bsing you
Apple Hipster Dude: I thought so to until I started looking on the net and asked Josh about what I found. He said Japan makes high end sounding buds and they can be pricey.
Vampire Slayer Buffy: I thought most earbuds came from Asia. you think it's worth it paying that much money for earbuds?
Apple Hipster Dude: They do, most stuff comes from China but according to Josh Japan is known for making some pretty wack sounding earbuds and headphones.
Vampire Slayer Buffy: It's obvious you want to listen to them for yourself did he tell you the name of the brand?
Apple Hipster Dude: Nahhhh, I think I pissed him off. I dissed this little black amp that he had plugged into his iPod. I don't think he liked me telling him he should ditch the amp and get better buds
Vampire Slayer Buffy: Ha ha if he's not bsing about what he paid I doubt he can get better sounding buds. Why was he using an amp on a iPod for anyway? I thought amps were only for stereos.
 
It was about this time I got to my car and yanked my IEM's out of my ears. The second I yanked them out and turned slightly around to get into my car the two hipsters immediately stopped talking and continued walking by my car looking straight ahead. I threw my stuff in my car and jumped in feeling rather amused by their conversation. Me being me I just couldn't let what I had heard lie and slowly made a bee line in my car towards vampire slayer Buffy and Apple hipster dude. I drove my car up along side them and yelled "Hey Apple associate dude I told you they're called IEM's not earbuds. An for your information the company that makes the IEM's I'm wearing is called J-Phonic and I didn't buy them in Japan they're made in Japan I got them off the net"  I then gunned the engine and bolted away as fast as I could. Man did they looked shocked when they realized I had been listening in on their conversation LMAO.

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

Since everyone here is debating the mainstream consumer i decided to copy and paste a couple of entries I posted in another thread a few weeks ago. The following is a story concerning what happened to me in an Apple store and the reality concerning how mainstream people view gear such as amps and DAP's
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I read this post of yours on the diary thread when you wrote it! I loved EVERY moment of it!
 
Seriously, I was at Best Buy today and I had to walk over and show the Best Buy rep that I actually knew TV's before he stopped telling hogwash on 240 Hz and branding and make blieve "dynamic contrast ratio" to my father. One of those things I guess.

 

[mochill]

Lol...funny story

 

[DigitalFreak]

Quote:

I read this post of yours on the diary thread when you wrote it! I loved EVERY moment of it!
 
Seriously, I was at Best Buy today and I had to walk over and show the Best Buy rep that I actually knew TV's before he stopped telling hogwash on 240 Hz and branding and make blieve "dynamic contrast ratio" to my father. One of those things I guess.

Thanks, yeah you got to be careful nowadays and do your research when shopping for electronics. The salespeople either regurgitate whatever they hear or make crap up to make a big sale and get more commission.
Quote:

Lol...funny story

Thanks, as funny as it is it's also a rather sad statement as far as the mainstream consumer is concerned. I'm in agreement with others on this thread that if Fiio decides to just make another mediocre sounding DAP it'll just be another MP3 player in an ocean of MP3 players. Fiio should stop and give this project a good think. If they think they don't directly cater to the entry level music enthusiast/audiophile they're sorely mistaken. If Fiio wants to make a DAP they have to decide to either go all out or give up the idea entirely. Another mediocre DAP will be nothing more then another mediocre DAP amongst a 100 000 other mediocre sounding DAP's. No offense to your views ClieOS I just don't see Fiio getting anywhere with a mediocre sounding MP3 player that doesn't even have a touch screen. Most mainstream consumers will see the thick form factor and the buttons and keep walking over to the displays with Android/iOS handsets.

 

[miceblue]

Quote:

Since everyone here is debating the mainstream consumer i decided to copy and paste a couple of entries I posted in another thread a few weeks ago. The following is a story concerning what happened to me in an Apple store and the reality concerning how mainstream people view gear such as amps and DAP's
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 

Wow, that just made my day. Thanks for sharing. Though I do realize most, every day consumers and tech people don't understand a thing about audiophile equipment, it was just plain sad that he called himself an "audiophile" when he listens to Beats with an iPod and [most likely] owns iTunes-quality music as his highest fidelity music files. Even as an audiophile, I rarely use the word neutral when describing audio because it's such a misused word in my honest opinion.
 
...and seriously? "An iPod is the best sounding MP3 device on the market you really don't need an amp. I know there's a lot of MP3 players out on the market like Sanza Sony and Samsung that sound like crap but our iPods all put them to shame in the sound category."
 
My $40 Clip Zip sounds better than my $200 iPod Touch, and only slightly better than a Rockboxed Video. That's Apple's propaganda for ya.
 
Luckily I haven't met an Apple employee as snobby as him (even when I took my Shure SRH940 into an Apple Store to compare them to their various headphones), but I do often come across employees who don't know very much about their products.
 
 
Relating back to FiiO, I agree with others in that FiiO is known to produce products that act as a stepping stone between the typical consumer and the early audiophile. I don't know too much about the current X3 project, nor the previous version, but my guess would be that FiiO is going to continue with that tradition.

 

[ClieOS]

I have a similar story a few months ago in an electronic chain store where a sale person is trying very hard to sell me the new Reference S4 when I was there to do a quick demo to confirm my suspicious that it wasn't an actual upgrade over the original S4 (Klipsch has those demo stand where you can plug in your source and listen to all the different demo set).

No offense to your views ClieOS I just don't see Fiio getting anywhere with a mediocre sounding MP3 player that doesn't even have a touch screen. Most mainstream consumers will see the thick form factor and the buttons and keep walking over to the displays with Android/iOS handsets.

Anyway, why would people keep assuming X3 will have a mediocre SQ? The original design calls for a circuit that has been proven to have been measured (by a third party) very well, easily match up with most of the popular sources these day. What kind of source do you guys think can be qualified as audiophile while what other source are mediocre sounding?

 

[doublea71]

I don't know what they'll come up with, but I send them a truckload of good karma since I really think highly of them. They've carved out a nice niche and I hope they keep pumping out quality gear for the shallow-pocketed audiophile. Any word on when they'll release the X3? This year?
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Everything Fiio I've heard is mediocre to below average sounding (E5, E7, E9, E10, E11) by my standards.  Are you suggesting their lineup represents the pinnacle of audio performance available these days?
 
Even that third party you mentioned, whom I personally disdain, has a source and amp that are above average by comparison and most of my gear surpasses those.  DACPort is as good if not better than ODAC.  
 
For me personally, I need a better performing and designed transport or anything better than what I have already.  I have yet to see this from Fiio unless the E12 can surpass the UHA6S (doubtful).  I'd like to buy a Fiio as I tend to like the relative quality and looks (E5 was my first portable amp) but the performance is just not up par for me now.  Then again, I guess I'm not their market so there you go.  Mystery solved.

 

[stozzer123]

Quote:

This I have never seen. Where is this shop(s) in low yat?

about a 10 months since last in low yat.  audio shop ground floor on left of escalators when u walk in. Apple store ground floor on right hand side next to sony.  Also sony had something im sure (e5/e6).  Then i think its the 3rd or 4th floor theres the large electronics store.  plus going by the independent vendors and ask for headphone amps, someone will be stocking.

 

[H20Fidelity]

Since everyone here is debating the mainstream consumer i decided to copy and paste a couple of entries I posted in another thread a few weeks ago. The following is a story concerning what happened to me in an Apple store and the reality concerning how mainstream people view gear such as amps and DAP's
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I enjoyed your story very much so DigitalFreak. It's quite given me the giggles.

Thank you.