[TheGiantHogweed]

Glad you got it sorted for now. I knew it was hair/fibre related. Had the same issue myself on the HD600 at one point - my own hair though.

I know you said the maximum you'd want to spend was £180, but the K712's can be had for about £190. Might be a good choice. The soundstage is fantastic and I am always impressed at their mids. They're boosted a little in the treble, around 8khz and 14khz. Without having your ears, I can't be certain of your frequancy preference, but I very seldom hear of people dislking the K712. They also have fantastic imaging. I would say they share quite a lot of traits of the DT880.

You could also try the Philips Fidelio X2's for around £150. I personally find the mids a little recessed for my liking, but they do have a treble peak around 11khz. People tend to love or hate them. Still, you could return them if not to your liking. Soundstage is huge and they're some of the most comfortable cans I've ever tried.

I've lost my confidence with AKG's quality control. The build quality on the K702s was a joke in my opinion and the K712 looks to be built the same way. They just don't feel like they are worth anything like what you pay. And from many reviews I've read of the K712, the solder job on the inside has often been truly appalling which is the same problem I had with one pair of my K702s. I found what was providing the tension for the automatic adjustment of the headband hilarious. It just looked like they had pulled some fine strands of elastic from some socks and put two on either side. I didn't have them for that long, but the elastic started to wear and many people commented about it giving up altogether.

 

[matty007]

I've lost my confidence with AKG's quality control. The build quality on the K702s was a joke in my opinion and the K712 looks to be built the same way. They just don't feel like they are worth anything like what you pay. And from many reviews I've read of the K712, the solder job on the inside has often been truly appalling which is the same problem I had with one pair of my K702s. I found what was providing the tension for the automatic adjustment of the headband hilarious. It just looked like they had pulled some fine strands of elastic from some socks and put two on either side. I didn't have them for that long, but the elastic started to wear and many people commented about it giving up altogether.

Whilst I do agree with many of your points, the failure/breakage rate of these headphones is still incredibly low. They wouldn't be staples if this were not the case.

My DT880's were dropped out of a two storey window by my young nephew while he was left unattended with my audio equipment (never again) and landed on concrete. They pretty much landed straight on the driver. They were slightly dented, yet despite this, they still worked perfectly.

The appereance of a strong build does not always mean it is so, and vice versa. Headphones are made to be 'flimsy' to reduce weight. However, you have to remember that the headbands of the K712's are made of metal. Despite them being light and plyable, it would take a tremendous amount of force to actually break them. I like great build quality too (think DT1990, Fidelio X2) but with this comes extra weight, and often a compromise on comfort.

Again, if you're looking for good build quality and great sound, you have options at this price range, albeit limited. A tight budget often does not give you great sound, great build and great comfort together - compromises have to be made. If you're looking for the most rugged cans you have the choice of the following -

DT880
DT990 (Too V shaped for you most likely)
Fidelio X2

These are pretty much the only cans under £200 which I would describe as being 'rugged'.

Personally, I find the K712 and HD600 perfectly adequate in regards to build. I am not trying to allude to you being abusive of your headphones, more so that you have simply been 'unlucky'. You have likely been sold 'friday afternoon jobs'. Truth is, typically, you'd really have to abuse these headphones for them to break.

If you up your budget to £300-£350 you have many more options (Sundara, DT1990 etc). But if you're looking at under £180, it is very difficult to get a headphone that are very rugged and come with comfort and sound quality also.

The HD600 is still the headphone I would recommend you, above others. If you're set on build quality above anything else, and don't want Beyer, the obvious choice is the Fidelio X2.

 

[matty007]

I will also comment on the new HD560S as I have heard them briefly yesterday -

I was rather impressed, they have a decent bass extension that rolls off later than HD600/650 and the highs were fairly good. Build quality is decent. However, I found the soundstage to be poor (likely even more narrow than the HD600) and while they were fairly clean, they had a recession in the 2-3khz range which I wasn't very fond of. Imaging is likely on par, or slightly worse than the HD600 range.

Whilst they're good value and offer a refreshing bass response, the drivers were simply not as resolving and detailed as the HD600's (HD600 drivers are honestly so perfect) and the mids are just 'meh' rather than being pristine in tamber like the 600's.

They wouldn't be a bad purchase and would still put many cans in this price range to shame. However, I am of the opinion that it is 100% worth spending the extra £50 or so for the HD600 drivers.

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

Whilst I do agree with many of your points, the failure/breakage rate of these headphones is still incredibly low. They wouldn't be staples if this were not the case.

My DT880's were dropped out of a two storey window by my young nephew while he was left unattended with my audio equipment (never again) and landed on concrete. They pretty much landed straight on the driver. They were slightly dented, yet despite this, they still worked perfectly.

The appereance of a strong build does not always mean it is so, and vice versa. Headphones are made to be 'flimsy' to reduce weight. However, you have to remember that the headbands of the K712's are made of metal. Despite them being light and plyable, it would take a tremendous amount of force to actually break them. I like great build quality too (think DT1990, Fidelio X2) but with this comes extra weight, and often a compromise on comfort.

Again, if you're looking for good build quality and great sound, you have options at this price range, albeit limited. A tight budget often does not give you great sound, great build and great comfort together - compromises have to be made. If you're looking for the most rugged cans you have the choice of the following -

DT880
DT990 (Too V shaped for you most likely)
Fidelio X2

These are pretty much the only cans under £200 which I would describe as being 'rugged'.

Personally, I find the K712 and HD600 perfectly adequate in regards to build. I am not trying to allude to you being abusive of your headphones, more so that you have simply been 'unlucky'. You have likely been sold 'friday afternoon jobs'. Truth is, typically, you'd really have to abuse these headphones for them to break.

If you up your budget to £300-£350 you have many more options (Sundara, DT1990 etc). But if you're looking at under £180, it is very difficult to get a headphone that are very rugged and come with comfort and sound quality also.

The HD600 is still the headphone I would recommend you, above others. If you're set on build quality above anything else, and don't want Beyer, the obvious choice is the Fidelio X2.

I'll see what I decide.

Things feeling cheap are not always a problem like you imply, and it can be the other way round. I just seem to be having a nightmare with the quality control of electrical stuff these days. Unrelated to headphones, but I've also lost my confidence in logitech and their mice recently. I've had 3 M705 mice. All 3 have felt completely different despite being the same mouse. Stiff vs slack scroll wheel, solid vs way to easy to press clicks (even on the same mouse). Mushy vs solid side buttons. My impression is that some companies are just unable to have the consistent quality control that they used to have. I just feel they don't make the effort they used to with intentions of their devices only lasting so long so you have to buy another - which on their side makes sense, it is just so frustrating for users. Though I must be more unlucky than most.


I treat my electrical items incredibly carefully. But the amount of defects i've had is shocking with just headphones alone. Faulty driver on my original K550s, Build quality problems with my K702s (an ear cup adjustment kept getting jammed), then the next pair had a poor solder joint that I could have done better myself. First pair of DT880s (pros) had a fault in the coiled cable, 2nd pair (premiums) rubbed really badly against the metal headband when worn that I kept hearing clunking while wearing them and moving my head. 3rd pair (premiums) had the same problem, but to a lesser extent and the tape modification I did helped with that. They they have that issue with the odd choice of fabric used that ended up contacting the driver.

I hope anyone that suggests AKG and beyerdynamic is still good are right, but it may be easy for you to see why I'm not feeling that optimistic about them being reliable in the long term. I need something to convince me to change my mind.

 

[TrollDragon]

Nothing more rugged than the German Maestro GMP 8 series, they are indestructible. I refer to them as my closed DT880s since they share a very similar sound signature. These are the 300 ohm version that I use in my OTL amp or portable with the FiiO E12, but are available in 35 ohm too.

 

[Happydreams]

Nothing more rugged than the German Maestro GMP 8 series, they are indestructible. I refer to them as my closed DT880s since they share a very similar sound signature. These are the 300 ohm version that I use in my OTL amp or portable with the FiiO E12, but are available in 35 ohm too.

What pads do you have on those maestro's?

 

[matty007]

Nothing more rugged than the German Maestro GMP 8 series, they are indestructible. I refer to them as my closed DT880s since they share a very similar sound signature. These are the 300 ohm version that I use in my OTL amp or portable with the FiiO E12, but are available in 35 ohm too.

Yes. Only problem is that they're closed. It's easier to find well built closed cans for cheaper, but personally,after getting used to open cans it's really difficult to listen to closed. For me at least.

The tamber is much less natural.

 

[gooeyrich]

 

[TrollDragon]

What pads do you have on those maestro's?

Those are the GMP velour.
https://www.german-maestro-shop.de/.../Shops/61902279/Products/"Ohrpolster 41-6049"

 

[kman1211]

I will also comment on the new HD560S as I have heard them briefly yesterday -

I was rather impressed, they have a decent bass extension that rolls off later than HD600/650 and the highs were fairly good. Build quality is decent. However, I found the soundstage to be poor (likely even more narrow than the HD600) and while they were fairly clean, they had a recession in the 2-3khz range which I wasn't very fond of. Imaging is likely on par, or slightly worse than the HD600 range.

Whilst they're good value and offer a refreshing bass response, the drivers were simply not as resolving and detailed as the HD600's (HD600 drivers are honestly so perfect) and the mids are just 'meh' rather than being pristine in tamber like the 600's.

They wouldn't be a bad purchase and would still put many cans in this price range to shame. However, I am of the opinion that it is 100% worth spending the extra £50 or so for the HD600 drivers.

Owning the HD 560 S I can attest they are not as good fidelity wise as the HD 600 or the DT 880.

Biggest thing they lack compared to the HD 600 and the DT 880 is dynamic excursion, they don’t create the same sense of body and physical presence as a well-driven DT 880 or HD 600 are capable of.

In fact, they can sound oddly and artificially thin at times and it takes good synergy to overcome their tendency to sound thin. Imaging is fine good even when they like the system. But the soundstaging varies dramatically from system to system it can be piss poor like it was on the Lyr 3/Bifrost 2 combo which was one of the worst soundstages I’ve experienced on a headphone in a long time or actually quite good when I changed the amp to the Project Horizon 3. Changing from usb to optical on the Bifrost 2 also helped their soundstage.

Problem is I find the headphones overly finicky with the system but I do have some systems they sound good on and I love their comfort so I haven’t given up on them.

 

[Sefelt103]

In terms of sound, I could possibly even call myself a treble head. All the more expensive headphones I've had have a noticeable spike in the treble, or are certainly bright. AD700, K702, K550, K550 MKIII, DT880 Pro, DT880 Premium. I like the sound of them all. I basically could just do with knowing some more open backed headphones that sound pretty similar to the DT880s that are easier to drive.

Anyone know of a headphone that's treble orientated that's easy to drive, that's not the 32Ω version of the DT 880 ? Every one that I've heard is treble orientated is high impedance/hard to drive like the original T1. The latest T1 is low impedance but it's not a treble centred headphone. It's not that it takes alot of power (like bass orientated headphones) to produce a treble focused headphone. The AKG K701 is low impedance but also low sensitivity so difficult to drive. I'm intrigued to know if there is such a headphone.

 

[matty007]

Anyone know of a headphone that's treble orientated that's easy to drive, that's not the 32Ω version of the DT 880 ? Every one that I've heard is treble orientated is high impedance/hard to drive like the original T1. The latest T1 is low impedance but it's not a treble centred headphone. It's not that it takes alot of power (like bass orientated headphones) to produce a treble focused headphone. The AKG K701 is low impedance but also low sensitivity so difficult to drive. I'm intrigued to know if there is such a headphone.

Of the ones I've heard -

Sony MDR-SA5000
Audio Technica ATH-AD700
Superlux HD668B

And.....Sony V6's

 

[Sefelt103]

So they do exist after all. Thanks matty007. Interesting video on the DT 880 250Ω

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

Anyone know of a headphone that's treble orientated that's easy to drive, that's not the 32Ω version of the DT 880 ? Every one that I've heard is treble orientated is high impedance/hard to drive like the original T1. The latest T1 is low impedance but it's not a treble centred headphone. It's not that it takes alot of power (like bass orientated headphones) to produce a treble focused headphone. The AKG K701 is low impedance but also low sensitivity so difficult to drive. I'm intrigued to know if there is such a headphone.

The DT1990
Yep I know...it’s a 250 ohm headphone but the tesla drivers are very sensitive, so you can basically drive it off a phone and still have some headroom to spare.
I agree about the previously mentioned cans as well. Those are some great recs.

 

[matty007]

The DT1990
Yep I know...it’s a 250 ohm headphone but the tesla drivers are very sensitive, so you can basically drive it off a phone and still have some headroom to spare.

I wouldn't say the 1990's are that easy to drive. For example, I have them at about 1-2oclock low gain on my JDS Atom and the HD600's are at about 12oclock for comparable volume.That is both with a -4db preamp on the Peace/EQ APO, though.

Sure, they're easier to drive than the 600ohm DT880's, but they're not easy to point that I would say portable devices release their true potential. Far from it. Maybe I like my music louder than some, but even near max volume on an Iphone I would find too low and undynamic for my tastes. I like to get those drivers moving.

The V6's for example would blow your ears off at even 10oclock on low gain.