[Kammerat Rebekka]

You may want to look into your general listening volume. The DT1990 will already be at around a 100db if you crank up your phone to the max...and that’s just way too loud if you want to keep hour hearing intact.

 

[matty007]

As said, I do like my music rocking though. I'm probably near 85db. But to tell the truth, I don't see the point in having a very detailed and resolving driver just to run it at a whisper. I've never damaged my ears with music, but I'll certainly push it to the limit. Just because that's when music sounds so much better. Punchy, detailed.

It makes me laugh when I see people running HD600's at 9oclock low gain on an Atom. There's no detail and it's just flat and too low. I have very good hearing too so it's not as if my ears need more volume. I just don't get any emotion or punch from my music at such low volumes.

 

[TrollDragon]

So they do exist after all. Thanks matty007. Interesting video on the DT 880 250Ω

I think he mentions Sennheiser more often than beyer in that video.
I didn't like the HD6XX at all on the Monolith THX DAC/Amp but never got a chance to hear them on tubes, which might change my opinion of them. The DT880 with tubes is sublime.

 

[matty007]

You may want to look into your general listening volume. The DT1990 will already be at around a 100db if you crank up your phone to the max...and that’s just way too loud if you want to keep hour hearing intact.

Haven't listened to music through a phone for a long time, but I think the one time I used the 1990's on my Iphone, I was at about 80% volume to get what I'd consider 'decent'. But even then, they weren't what I'd call dynamic.

I test my cans with a SPL meter quite often, and I'm usually around 82-85db. My litmus test is play the music at your volume and then click you fingers about a foot away. If you can't hear it, it's too loud. I can always hear it, and can hear taps on my desk.

 

[matty007]

I just did a test. I put my preamp on Peace to 0db so they're running at stock volume. Listening to 'Paranoid Android' on the DT1990's, I am at 12:30 on the JDS Atom at low gain. That's about my volume. HD600's, about 12oclock.

K712 and DT880 600ohm are both at about 2:30 low gain. My Sony V6's are earsplitting at 9am low gain.

 

[matty007]

Volume and dynamics are very diffrerent things. Could I listen to HD600's on a Iphone at 70% volume? Sure. It'd be loud enough, but it would have zero dynamics. If I'm listening with Apple Earbuds, I'd probably be around 60%, but then again, I'm not looking for detail from those am I?

It's quite well known that HD600's etc need more volume to really get them to open up and have dynamics, and detail. Sure, the music is perfectly audible at 9oclock gain, but it's totally lifeless.

Up those HD600's to near the hearing threshold of 85db, and the detail and dynamics will be MUCH better.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

Haven't listened to music through a phone for a long time, but I think the one time I used the 1990's on my Iphone, I was at about 80% volume to get what I'd consider 'decent'. But even then, they weren't what I'd call dynamic.

I test my cans with a SPL meter quite often, and I'm usually around 82-85db. My litmus test is play the music at your volume and then click you fingers about a foot away. If you can't hear it, it's too loud. I can always hear it, and can hear taps on my desk.

I am at around the same listening volume minus 5-10 dB depending on my mood or the time of day.
I used to think that phones were unable to drive high impedance cans - even if the sensitivity was high - and felt they ended up sounding ‘dull’ or indeed ‘lacking’...but then again I was looking at the phone whilst listening. When you remove the overt fallacies of sight from any amp/dac comparison, things all of a sudden change immensely...and you end up doubting whether or not you just heard what you heard when you used your peepers.
I do agree that it ‘feels’ better to hook high impedance headphones up to an amp...but I’m fairly certain that’s down to the brainwashing most of us have been subjected to over the years reading various reviews...yet there are literally no reviews that take the blindfolded approach to heart. A change in sound quality is only REALLY a true change if you can pick it up with your ears...and nothing else

 

[matty007]

I am at around the same listening volume give or take 5-10 dB depending on my mood or the time of day.
I used to think that phones were unable to drive high impedance cans - even if the sensitivity was high - and felt they ended up sounding ‘dull’ or indeed ‘lacking’...but then again I was looking at the phone whilst listening. When you remove the overt fallacies of sight from any amp/dac comparison, things all of a sudden change immensely...and you end up doubting whether or not you just heard what you heard when you used your peepers.
I do agree that it ‘feels’ better to hook high impedance headphones up to an amp...but I’m fairly certain that’s down to the brainwashing most of us have been subjected to over the years reading various reviews...yet there are literally no reviews that take the blindfolded approach to heart. A change in sound quality is only REALLY a true change if you can pick it up with your ears...and nothing else

Oh, trust me, MUCH of the audio realm is placebo. I am a vinyl lover. Could most tell the diffrence between a £100 and a £1000 turntable? Probably not. When you approach that level of quality, the return is minor to non existent in most cases.

I do agree with your points...to a degree. If I were to plug low impedence and high sensitivity cans in a Iphone jack (V6's, AD700's) and then switch to an expensive amp at the exact same volume, I doubt I'd notice any difference. The drivers are so sensitive and easy to drive that nothing is to be gained.

If I plugged HD600's into a Iphone and then listened through the right amp on the same volume? Absolutely, I could tell the difference. I've tried it. Soundtsage opens up, highs become more resolving and detailed. They sound less muddled.

Music is as much as about emotion as anything else to me. Yes, I am a fairly loud listerner, but that's just me. I have tried reducing the volume before and get used to it, but I never can. With Jazz or something? Maybe I can, because there isn't any punch or need for extra volume. But do I really want to listen to Dr Dre's 2001 on such a low volume that I could hold a conversation with someone else in a diffrent room? Nah, don't think so. I want to get those drivers moving. I want to hear the crispness in the snares, I want the bassline to have impact. If I want to listen to everything quiet, I'll put on low quality cans just because I'm not looking for detail, and I won't wear out the pads of my better cans. Rocking HD600's at 9oclock low gain is like buying a new Porsche only to drive it at 30mph everywhere.

There does seem to be a tedeancy for people to really listen low nowadays. I never listen loud to the point of damaging ears, but you best believe I want those drivers kicking. As long as you stay around 85db you'll never do any damage. I swear a lot of people complaining about 'low detail' on cans like the HD600 and K712's etc is due to them being driven too low.

 

[Sefelt103]

I think he mentions Sennheiser more often than beyer in that video.
I didn't like the HD6XX at all on the Monolith THX DAC/Amp but never got a chance to hear them on tubes, which might change my opinion of them. The DT880 with tubes is sublime.

He doesn't say that the HD650 might be considered the mirror of the DT 880. So if the HD650 has a sound signature he likes then the DT 880 is going to be difficult to like.

 

[matty007]

I suppose it's a case of 'You don't miss what you've never had'. Like anything, it's easy to upgrade, but not so easy to downgrade. Could I go back to a 60hz monitor after using 144hz? Hell no.

Audio chip's in phones have gotten a lot better, I will agree. The bridge is closing. But they'll never substitute proper amping. Likewise, motherboard audio has got a hell of a lot better. I could quite easily rock low impedence cans on motherboard audio. But, I still know that proper amping is better.

I have a MSI Tomahawk motherboard which has a great audio chip. But if I plug my DT1990's into them, you best believe I can hear a diffrerence compared to an Atom, Liquid Spark, THX.. Not in volume, but in detail. The low end becomes more bloated, the highs lack resolve and the same extension. That's what I have said before, that Volume does not equal quality. Just because a can is being powered loud enough off a motherboard, does not mean they are resolving as they should. DT1990/DT880/HD600 are a LOT less detailed through a motherboard and I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all, would notice.

 

[matty007]

He doesn't say that the HD650 might be considered the mirror of the DT 880. So if the HD650 has a sound signature he likes then the DT 880 is going to be difficult to like.

DT880 is much more alike a HD600. The mids up until the 2/3khz range are almost identical. Sure, the 5-10khz range on the HD650 maybe closer to the DT880, but the HD650's sound too dark in comparison and they lack a LOT of the wonderful air that the DT880's have. The highs in the 650 go off a cliff after 12khz.

Some days I prefer the HD600, and other days, the DT880. HD600 have slightly better tambre and wonderful treble extension, but on the other hand, DT880's bass extension is much better, and you could argue, is more detailed and resolving bass.

HD600 and DT880 600ohm are giants. They outperform cans costing 10x more in some cases.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

I’ve pretty much said my piece. What you are saying does not align with my findings or indeed every other properly conducted blindtest I’ve ever read about over the net.
As long as the frequency response is flat and the distortion numbers are below the audible threshold, amps will sound the same (again disregarding volume and impedance mismatching..and of course that you’re not trying to power an HE6 with an iPod)...and well most amps in phones and motherboards today are transparent to the human ear. An amp is needed/warranted if you’re missing volume.
I’ll leave it there. I know many around here will see this as a stab at them but it’s genuinely not. I’m saying these things to help out newbies before they go chasing ghosts down the rabbithole
Peace

 

[matty007]

I’ve pretty much said my piece. What you are saying does not align with my findings or indeed every other properly conducted blindtest I’ve ever read about over the net.
As long as the frequency response is flat and the distortion numbers are below the audible threshold, amps will sound the same (again disregarding volume and impedance mismatching..and of course that you’re not trying to power an HE6 with an iPod)...and well most amps in phones and motherboards today are transparent to the human ear. An amp is needed/warranted if you’re missing volume.
I’ll leave it there. I know many around here will see this as a stab at them but it’s genuinely not. I’m saying these things to help out newbies before they go chasing ghosts down the rabbithole
Peace

Don't take it as a stab at all, and it's a perfectly valid point. And actually, for many use cases I would agree with you. It depends how difficult the cans are to drive, and other factors.

Many of my cans are easy to drive, and I would not notice a diffrence as to what amp is powering them. All I can say is that trying to power my cans such as DT1990, HD600, R70x and 600ohm DT800's off motherboard audio results in a rather lacklustre experience. Is that because I listen at a higher volume than some? Possibly. But HD600's at 80-90% volume through my motherboard sound quite a lot more 'lifeless' than going through my amps.

 

[Sefelt103]

An amp is needed/warranted if you’re missing volume.
I’ll leave it there. I know many around here will see this as a stab at them but it’s genuinely not. I’m saying these things to help out newbies before they go chasing ghosts down the rabbithole
Peace

I'm with you on that. A DAC or an amplifier is not commensurate with a headphone.

HD600 and DT880 600ohm are giants. They outperform cans costing 10x more in some cases.

I think the HD650 is also a giant.

 

[TheGiantHogweed]

The ATH-AD700 stopped being made years ago though. And that is a shame as it is about the only pair of headphones that I now have confidence will last me at least the same number of years I've had it already (nearly 10 years) They are touch even if they can get dents easily and the cable and connector is the best I've come across.

I am more or less wanting to go the same direction with my next pair, getting an easy to drive pair. My main area i like is certainly treble, but the AD700s are very lightweight in bass. Still enjoyable, but you can miss it at times.