[apatN]

Quote:

Ok, so I just received my new 6J1P-EV tubes yesterday.  Installed them into my Little Dot MKIII headphone amp.  With the DT880 600 ohm headphones, there is a slight increase in bass over my Mullard driver tubes.  And I mean slight.  I'm a little confused when certain people describe changing driver tubes as resulting in drastic sonic changes.  This is my 3rd variety of tubes that I've tried with the headphone amp, I supposedly have one of the more revealing headphones out there, and I hear all of these tube changes as slightly altering the sound characteristics.  There may be a small percentage of the audiophile community that can easily pick out these changes, and then they may describe these changes as "much increased bass", or "sound stage increased by 20 feet in width",etc.  Compared to all my friends and family, I have the most discerning ear (that may or not mean anything), and have typically been highly critical when things are not balanced well.  I still don't hear these large changes in sound characteristics that supposedly should be happening.  Who knows, maybe my ears are somewhat flawed.  According to my latest hearing test, all is good. 
 
The odd thing is that my DT880 600 ohm phones have shown me how much I love my lowly SR60 cans.  With the new tubes in my LDMKIII, the Grados have noticeably more slam and bass than they did with the Mullard tubes.  Odd that I noticed the difference in tubes more with my cheap Grados than the DT880's.  Even more odd is that people told me that I would not notice the changes in tubes with my lowly SR60's.  I know what many of you are thinking...the DT880's are not a rock or techno headphone and I should not expect them to be bass heavy.  I don't want them to be bass heavy.  So far my experience with the DT880's has been mixed.  I would describe them as having a very airy and delicate sound.  Highly detailed.  To my ears, the top end is too hot.  Everything has too sharp of an edge to it.  To my ears, even live music doesn't sound this sharp-edged.  They also seem to lack any form of warmth.  The DT880's really help me to analyze music, but I don't know if it helps me to enjoy the music and get into it.  To me, music always needs to be heard and felt (a little).  Maybe I'm finding I don't want music to sound airy and delicate with copious amounts of detail.  I'm not going to give up yet.  Perhaps I will adjust to this and end up loving it.  That or maybe I just need to get a good EQ.  I hope this doesn't come across as too negative of a post.  Just thought I'd add my experience.

Sounds like you are ready for the close-back mod. Don't worry though, that's a good thing! :-D

 

[dukja]

Very interesting read.  Much thanks for this information!!
 
Quote:

I found this while looking for a schematic of a limiter (not a schematic):
Beyerdynamic web article on SPL limiting
 
Interestingly, my current DT770pro (80ohms) have no protection diodes, even though the article lists it as an option. Perhaps they are serious about the "optional" part.
 
Figure 5 example a is what I believe was in my old DT770/600. 
Headwize article on the subject

 

[Max F]

Quote:

Ok, so I just received my new 6J1P-EV tubes yesterday.  Installed them into my Little Dot MKIII headphone amp.  With the DT880 600 ohm headphones, there is a slight increase in bass over my Mullard driver tubes.  And I mean slight.  I'm a little confused when certain people describe changing driver tubes as resulting in drastic sonic changes.  This is my 3rd variety of tubes that I've tried with the headphone amp, I supposedly have one of the more revealing headphones out there, and I hear all of these tube changes as slightly altering the sound characteristics.  There may be a small percentage of the audiophile community that can easily pick out these changes, and then they may describe these changes as "much increased bass", or "sound stage increased by 20 feet in width",etc.  Compared to all my friends and family, I have the most discerning ear (that may or not mean anything), and have typically been highly critical when things are not balanced well.  I still don't hear these large changes in sound characteristics that supposedly should be happening.  Who knows, maybe my ears are somewhat flawed.  According to my latest hearing test, all is good. 
 
The odd thing is that my DT880 600 ohm phones have shown me how much I love my lowly SR60 cans.  With the new tubes in my LDMKIII, the Grados have noticeably more slam and bass than they did with the Mullard tubes.  Odd that I noticed the difference in tubes more with my cheap Grados than the DT880's.  Even more odd is that people told me that I would not notice the changes in tubes with my lowly SR60's.  I know what many of you are thinking...the DT880's are not a rock or techno headphone and I should not expect them to be bass heavy.  I don't want them to be bass heavy.  So far my experience with the DT880's has been mixed.  I would describe them as having a very airy and delicate sound.  Highly detailed.  To my ears, the top end is too hot.  Everything has too sharp of an edge to it.  To my ears, even live music doesn't sound this sharp-edged.  They also seem to lack any form of warmth.  The DT880's really help me to analyze music, but I don't know if it helps me to enjoy the music and get into it.  To me, music always needs to be heard and felt (a little).  Maybe I'm finding I don't want music to sound airy and delicate with copious amounts of detail.  I'm not going to give up yet.  Perhaps I will adjust to this and end up loving it.  That or maybe I just need to get a good EQ.  I hope this doesn't come across as too negative of a post.  Just thought I'd add my experience.

 
Don't worry about whether or not different tubes make a big difference or not.  Its more subtle than that and its about "perfecting" the sound the way you want it.  It's not going turn a headphone into something that it is not.
 
Also, it really sounds like you would enjoy the HD650 much better than the DT880.

 

 

[Palpatine]

Just sold my HD 650 to purchase the DT 880 600 ohms. Looking forward to getting back into Beyers. These new ones  ( from Moon Audio ) will do nicely until I can afford the T1s. I'll be using these completely stock.

 

[Zombie_X]

NICE, welcome back to the beyer club!!
 
Quote:

Just sold my HD 650 to purchase the DT 880 600 ohms. Looking forward to getting back into Beyers. These new ones  ( from Moon Audio ) will do nicely until I can afford the T1s. I'll be using these completely stock.

 

[Sesam]

I have finally found what I think is the perfect tube to use with my setup (Xonar STX, DT880 600Ohm and Little Country 3 Amp)

Spoiler

 
 
The LC3 is a rather modest tube Amp, and I didn't really think different tubes would make that much difference.. But I proved myself wrong, my conclusions with this headphone amp combo:
 
Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold - Slightly too bright and the bass a bit too thin. Sounds great/detailed for most music Pop, Jazz, Soul etc,,. But  some hard-rock and metal sounds too harsh/bright.
 
JJ E88CC / 6922 Gold - Compared to the EH it definitely has a warmer sound. And while this was an improvement for hard-rock and metal, I feel like clarity and detail was lost. To me it sounds like the midrange and female vocals became somewhat muffled.
 
Gold Lion E88CC / 6922 - OMG! They actually did live up to the manufacturers marketing hype 

. I instantly noticed that this has more bass "oomph", but without sacrificing detail and clarity. Also the highs aren't as ear piercing as they could sometimes be with the EH tubes. 
 
So if anyone ever considered the LC3 amp for the Beyers, I say Gold Lion FTW

 
(note all of these tubes were new production)

 

[wyki]

 
Quote:

 
Don't worry about whether or not different tubes make a big difference or not.  Its more subtle than that and its about "perfecting" the sound the way you want it.  It's not going turn a headphone into something that it is not.
 
Also, it really sounds like you would enjoy the HD650 much better than the DT880.

 

How would a recabled Sennheiser HD 600 (to take a more slightly neutral headphone than the HD 650) with a good SS amp (possibly a Meir Concerto, or possibly with a balanced amp and cabling) compare with a DT 880 with a good tube amp, say a Woo 3+?  Warm headphone + cool amplifier = cool headphone + warm amplifier? 
 
My other question is: Both Beyer and Sennheiser have made technological breakthroughs with the T1 and the HD 800.  Isn't it likely that in the next few years they'll develop upper-mid priced headphones based on these?   
 

 

[matthewh133]

I see people with these beautiful coloured Beyers, are these special orders or pasrt of a limited edition run? Yours is beautiful Sesam!
 
Nevermind found it!

 

[eIndi]

I'm currently using the 250 Ohm DT880s (2005 version). However, its left system is somewhat broken. There's something vibrating when playing back a low frequency test tone (I checked for hairs etc). It does not affect music playback, but it is something I would like to fix sooner or later.
 
So now I have the choice between getting a new 250 Ohm system or switching to 600 Ohms.
 
I'm listening to all kinds of rock music. The "faster" bass due to the lighter drivers sounds very interesting to me. However, the reports of decreased bass quantity frighten me a bit. How bad is it? I am quite content with the 250's bass quantity. 
 
I wouldn't mind if the decreased bass amount only occured at very low frequencies, say less than 40 Hz. I have my tf10 for those frequencies, and they're generally not very prominent in the music that I'm listening to. So as long as the decreased bass amount doesn't affect the sound of the bass drum, it would be fine with me.
 
I am aware of the closed back mod, but its side effects (decreased airiness and soundstage according to NoXter) seem undesirable to me.
 
What are your experiences in going from the 2005 250 Ohm to 600 Ohm, especially in combination with rock music?

 

[apatN]

600 is MOAR FASTER & BETTER. Get it!

 

[nickchen]

Get the 600 ohm systems, there is so much else you get in favour of the sheer bass quantity. And if you still want more bass, do the closed back mod (link in my sig), you'll get one of the finest closed cans available then, incl. the hard punch that is so typical for a good closed headphone.

 

[eIndi]

How about the loss of airiness and soundstage with the closed back mod? Is it very bad? How does the 600 Ohm CB's soundstage compare to the unmodded 250 Ohm's? I think I could live with a little loss of airiness, soundstage is more important to me.
 
I am going to call Beyerdynamic tomorrow to see how much the change to 600 Ohm will cost. I could buy the 600 Ohm systems and change the systems on my own, but I am not good at soldering. I don't want to burn the thin 600 Ohm coils, so I'd prefer the pros at Beyerdynamic doing this for me.

 

[apatN]

I have my pair modded to closeback. The soundstage doesn't suffer imo although you do lose some air, but it's not bad at all. In any case you should enjoy the 600ohm drivers better I think. I know I do.

 

[Zombie_X]

In my experience the 600Ohm models give you more bass, but not much more. It also extends deeper and has more texture. Treble is smoothed a bit and the midrange has filled it a bit as well. But I wouldn't not say it's a lush midrange as it is still a tiny bit recessed (but not as bad as the 250Ohm versions).
 
The 600Ohm versions are also, as apatN stated, faster. They have a higher transient response and the dynamics are improved.
 
The 600Ohm DT880 drivers are $66 each from beyerdynamic. Maybe you could contact Pete from them and see what he can do for you.

 

[eIndi]

I live in Germany, so getting those systems is no problem. I can even send it to them and let them change the systems for me. Cost would be around 125€ incl. taxes and shipping back to me.
I think I will go with the 600 Ohm systems, but I won't send them in until I have some other phones to replace them when they're gone.