Sep 21, 2019 at 3:07 AM Post #13,651 of 19,075
Is somebody still using CDs?

Love it or hate it, CD still IS de facto standard in recorded music today - although it is being seriously challenged by MP3 as far as general public acceptance is concerned.

However, recent sales figures show that vinyl sales is superseding the CD sales .... - again, after being superseded by the CD in early 80s.
 
Sep 21, 2019 at 3:24 AM Post #13,652 of 19,075
I burn at the top speed my drive is capable of. That is the speed the drive is designed to burn at. You're more likely to get errors at lower speed than the fastest. However, I almost never get drive related errors. It's always the media. (Memorex blanks suck.)

"Burned with a mat"... Hogwash.
 
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Sep 21, 2019 at 4:23 AM Post #13,653 of 19,075
That's what I would expect based on their description.

According to what they say, their process burns the same data onto the disc, but does so using a slightly more "conservative" physical format.
As with most specs, the Red Book CD standard sets a minimum and maxiumum range for pit and gap length.
(I'm not quite clear if Yamaha is actually going outside the spec - or simply locking the drive down so it always chooses the absolute most conservative setting within the spec.)
Either way, their claim seems to be that their process will make it easier for the drive to read the disc properly and without errors.
However, ASSUMING THAT THERE ARE NO UNCORRECTABLE ERRORS, then it should result in exactly the same data being written and read.
(The benefit would be that it would write discs that could be reliably read by a wider variety of players without errors.)

Note:

CD-Rs are actually recorded using a very different process than pressed discs.
On pressed discs, actual pits are pressed into the surface, and then the surface is plated with aluminum or gold.
CD-R discs store data on a layer of dye, which sits above a flat mirrored layer, and which is blistered or otherwise altered by the write LASER.
Because of the different process involved, the contrast in reflectivity of the data pattern written onto CD-R discs is much lower than on pressed discs.
Because of this they actually require somewhat different settings on the LASER mechanism in the drive you use to read them.
To make life even more interesting, there are several different types of dyes, and each is different (although they're supposed to be interchangeable).
The original dye used on low-speed discs was green; Verbatim had their own exclusive dye which was deep blue; and modern high speed discs are usually silver or slightly golden.
Modern drives are designed to easily cover this entire range - but early ones were not (especially those sold before CD-Rs even existed.)
Many early CD players were designed for pressed discs and wouldn't play CD-R discs at all.
Many early CD-R writers would only accept CD-Rs that used the original green dye, and many early players would only play that type.
Many early players would also only work, or would work better, with discs written at certain speeds (and many writers had stated "preferred" write speeds).
That's one reason why most CD writing software still offers the option of choosing a write speed rather than always using the fastest speed available.
(Presumably, some early drives wrote significantly off-spec pits at certain speeds, and certain players were more tolerant of off-spec pits than other.)

Yamaha also claims that their AMQR process results in less jitter on the recovered data.
Since the data is re-clocked by the player, this should have no effect on the jitter present on the output digital audio signal.
However, because jitter is one cause of data errors, reducing the jitter at the read interface could actually reduce the overall number of various types of read errors.

My point here is that, in the early days of CD-R recording, there were serious compatibility issues, and not all CD-R discs would read reliably on all players, or even close.
This was a legitimate and serious issue in the early days of audio CD-Rs.
For example, in those days, it was quite common to see lists of which specific brands of CD-R blanks would work best with specific writers or players.
Therefore, it's not unreasonable that Yamaha, and some other manufacturers, looked for ways to tweak the standard to produce more reliably readable discs....
And that they would be bragging about various attempts at solving the problem....
(And so we shouldn't rule out the possibility that their special discs might actually read more reliably in drives that are borderline or have substandard error correction.)

However, again, assuming a perfect read, with no uncorrectable errors, on one of their discs, and on a "normal" disc, the data delivered should be exactly the same.

Off the bat I must say I have quite a bit of respect for all studio recording engineers - in any field people at the coal face seem to learn a lot, and they seem to have to learn it quickly.



If the above image summarizes the AMQR process, it would suggest that it makes it easier for an optical drive to read the bits (or the "pits", as it were).
But, a non-AMQR CD should sound the same as an AMQR CD as long as the optical drive can read both discs without uncorrectable errors. Is that a fair statement Analog ?
Off the bat I must say I have quite a bit of respect for all studio recording engineers - in any field people at the coal face seem to learn a lot, and they seem to have to learn it quickly.



If the above image summarizes the AMQR process, it would suggest that it makes it easier for an optical drive to read the bits (or the "pits", as it were).
But, a non-AMQR CD should sound the same as an AMQR CD as long as the optical drive can read both discs without uncorrectable errors. Is that a fair statement Analog ?
 
Sep 21, 2019 at 6:59 AM Post #13,654 of 19,075
I'm lost on that one - I always go non-stop until my wrist gives up, then try out the disc. Is this a special type of toothpaste; what does the toothpaste do when you let it sit on the CD undisturbed for 10 minutes ?

Normal white toothpaste is best. I use Pepsodent Super Fluor. The toothpaste "dry up" and gets hard in 10-15 minutes and then I wash it away rubbing with my thumb. I believe the toothpaste is able to round hard edges of the scratch making it easier for the laser to read.
 
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Sep 21, 2019 at 10:25 AM Post #13,655 of 19,075
Love it or hate it, CD still IS de facto standard in recorded music today - although it is being seriously challenged by MP3 as far as general public acceptance is concerned.

However, recent sales figures show that vinyl sales is superseding the CD sales .... - again, after being superseded by the CD in early 80s.
Nonsense. According to the RIAA, new CD sales are still at least 4 to 1 in the USA and much higher everywhere else. For example, it is around 8 to 1 here in Australia and about 10 to 1 in Japan. Over here we still have CD commercials on TV (mainly for compilations) but never LPs. Most of the music stores here still stock CDs while it takes quite a bit of effort and driving around to find a place that sells LP records.

The growth in LP sales is also grossly overstated. It is off a very low base and the growth has tapered in recent years. It is, and always will be a niche format. Having said that, the day will come when new LP sales will overtake CDs but not because there has been a huge shift to vinyl (as myth would have it) but rather because physical media is dying out and the days of the CD were numbered when digital audio no longer relied on a physical product for distribution. To put it another way, CD (as a digital format) has evolved to digital formats that can be downloaded, saved or streamed. Analog, on the other hand is stuck with a physical format which had its last hurrah with the hi fi VCR. Vinyl is the last man standing and the tragedy for analog lovers is of course that the better fidelity analog formats lost out. Even a professional cassette deck using high bias tapes had better fidelity than vinyl by the time we got to mid 1980s.
 
Sep 21, 2019 at 1:01 PM Post #13,656 of 19,075
Love it or hate it, CD still IS de facto standard in recorded music today - although it is being seriously challenged by MP3 as far as general public acceptance is concerned.

However, recent sales figures show that vinyl sales is superseding the CD sales .... - again, after being superseded by the CD in early 80s.

Nope, CD is a dinosaur. Today's de facto standard is streaming audio.
 
Sep 21, 2019 at 1:37 PM Post #13,657 of 19,075
Nope, CD is a dinosaur. Today's de facto standard is streaming audio.

I don't want to wake up one morning to realize my favorite music is gone from streaming services because of some stupid licencing issue. My favorite music on safely on my bookshelf as CDs. No copyright bull!
 
Sep 21, 2019 at 1:44 PM Post #13,658 of 19,075
I don't want to wake up one morning to realize my favorite music is gone from streaming services because of some stupid licencing issue. My favorite music on safely on my bookshelf as CDs. No copyright bull****!
A major development prior to streaming was SD cards (hard drive backed-up). All my hundreds of CDs are now conveniently accessible as .flac files in one tiny 256 Gb card :)

P. S. The last time I used CDs after - can't recall :)
 
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Sep 21, 2019 at 2:54 PM Post #13,659 of 19,075
Normal white toothpaste is best. I use Pepsodent Super Fluor. The toothpaste "dry up" and gets hard in 10-15 minutes and then I wash it away rubbing with my thumb. I believe the toothpaste is able to round hard edges of the scratch making it easier for the laser to read.

You're supposed to scrub in a circular motion with a soft cloth to buff out the scratch.

Physical media is essential for people with broad musical interests. Probably a third of my collection is of music not available on streaming. That amounts to thousands of CDs. If you are interested in mainstream music, streaming is perfect because it covers that completely. But there's a lot of music that never made the transition from 78 to LP, a lot that never made the transition from LP to CD, and a lot that didn't make the transition from CD to streaming. The only way to hear that music is with physical media.

But once I get a CD, I rip it and put it on my media server, so it works the same as streaming.

Everything you need to know about media sales is in this chart...

units-vs-dollars-riaa.jpg
 
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Sep 21, 2019 at 4:32 PM Post #13,660 of 19,075
@bigshot, is that US sales only? If so, sales have changed in the last few years, with vinyl sales poised to surpass CD sales by the end of 2019, at least according to RIAA via CNBC. It's also interesting to look at Discogs' figures and see that for them CD sales have grown 23% (it's also fun to see which albums were the best sellers). I'm assuming that's because brick-and-mortar sales (and new production?) has gone down, so people are looking for (used?) physical formats online. Around here, anyway, it's slim pickings if you're looking for CDs, as most of the record stores either don't carry them at all or have greatly reduced their inventory.
And here are Nielsen's numbers for comparison. Somewhat interesting that they're quite different.

I tried to find worldwide sales figures, but wasn't having any luck.
 
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Sep 21, 2019 at 8:24 PM Post #13,662 of 19,075
@bigshot, is that US sales only? If so, sales have changed in the last few years, with vinyl sales poised to surpass CD sales by the end of 2019, at least according to RIAA via CNBC.

It depends on how the figures are spun, but the outcome is pretty clear... According to Billboard, Vinyl LP sales accounted for 11.9 percent of all album sales in 2018 (16.8 million of 141 million). I think the figure you are thinking of is that LP sales are growing faster than CD sales are falling. (In 2017 LP sales accounted for 6.5 percent, one year later 11.9 percent.) Download and streaming dwarf physical media. Streaming accounts for 75% of the market right now. Digital downloads account for another 12% and physical media of all types is just 10%. What this means is that CDs are headed towards being a niche market like LPs are, not that LPs are becoming mainstream.
 
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Sep 21, 2019 at 8:32 PM Post #13,663 of 19,075
@bigshot, is that US sales only? If so, sales have changed in the last few years, with vinyl sales poised to surpass CD sales by the end of 2019, at least according to RIAA via CNBC. It's also interesting to look at Discogs' figures and see that for them CD sales have grown 23% (it's also fun to see which albums were the best sellers). I'm assuming that's because brick-and-mortar sales (and new production?) has gone down, so people are looking for (used?) physical formats online. Around here, anyway, it's slim pickings if you're looking for CDs, as most of the record stores either don't carry them at all or have greatly reduced their inventory.
And here are Nielsen's numbers for comparison. Somewhat interesting that they're quite different.

I tried to find worldwide sales figures, but wasn't having any luck.
Highly unlikely that vinyl sales in the USA will surpass CDs by the end of the year. According to RIAA data, revenue from LP sales may surpass CD revenue by the end of the year but not quantity of units. That's understandable given the much higher revenue (and profit) is made made from each LP.
 
Sep 22, 2019 at 12:47 AM Post #13,664 of 19,075
Physical media is essential for people with broad musical interests. Probably a third of my collection is of music not available on streaming. That amounts to thousands of CDs. If you are interested in mainstream music, streaming is perfect because it covers that completely. ...... The only way to hear that music is with physical media.

Key point made.
Can be argued that, if you wait long enough, say another decade or two, more and more of the non-mainstream, esoteric and historical recordings will become available online. But then, who wants to defer their musical enjoyment for years ? May not be around then.
 
Sep 22, 2019 at 1:46 AM Post #13,665 of 19,075
INTERESTING STATISTICS ABOUT MUSIC SALES.....

https://www.statista.com/chart/17244/us-music-revenue-by-format/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188822/lp-album-sales-in-the-united-states-since-2009/

https://www.statista.com/chart/13578/vinyl-resurgance-style-over-substance/

https://www.statista.com/chart/12950/cd-sales-in-the-us/

https://www.statista.com/chart/13407/music-streaming_-who-pays-best/


Note that some are in number sold, while some are in $$$ sold, and some are in %.

Also note that, if you search, you can find some interesting statistics "per item".
For example, last year somewhere between 15 and 20 million vinyl albums were sold.
However, the SINGLE MOST STREAMED OR DOWNLOADED SONG topped several hundred million copies.

A few people have pointed out that the main flaw of streaming music is that, since you don't own a physical copy, you have no assurance that it won't someday cease to be available.
I have always personally considered this to be a significant concern - although, at least so far, only a very few albums have ever been "pulled from availability" (generally due to licensing issues).
However, while a given album could suffer this fate, it seems extremely unlikely that this will ever happen to a significant number of albums...
There are many steaming services and, while one or another may eventually fail, it seems obvious that streaming services in general are here to stay.
(The only thing I worry about is that, because many are currently losing money, streaming services may begin to compartmentalize - by dividing subscriptions into separate plans....
If this happens, some of us may lose access to certain albums, the same way we lose access to some cable channels when our cable company starts only offering certain channels under certain plans.)
HOWEVER, the obvious solution, which provides the best of both otpions, is actual album downloads.

I still occasionally purchase CDs - for albums that I really want to make sure I will always have access to.
However, if the option is available, I will ALWAYS choose to download the album directly; and, if I purchase the CD, I look at it as "a hardware download mechanism".
(As soon as it arrives, I rip it onto a hard drive, and the "plastic backup" goes into a box in the closet.)

And, while the plastic of a CD seems to offer an assurance of stability and permanence....
My entire collection of CDs fits on a single hard drive, which makes it simple to keep a backup copy of the entire collection, which is then easily updated and even stored offsite.
(Many people foolishly fail to do this... but the benefit still exists for those who take advantage of it.)

It depends on how the figures are spun, but the outcome is pretty clear... According to Billboard, Vinyl LP sales accounted for 11.9 percent of all album sales in 2018 (16.8 million of 141 million). I think the figure you are thinking of is that LP sales are growing faster than CD sales are falling. (In 2017 LP sales accounted for 6.5 percent, one year later 11.9 percent.) Download and streaming dwarf physical media. Streaming accounts for 75% of the market right now. Digital downloads account for another 12% and physical media of all types is just 10%. What this means is that CDs are headed towards being a niche market like LPs are, not that LPs are becoming mainstream.
 

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