[bigshot]

I did that once. My brother has a McIntosh system he bought back in the 70s. When he was on vacation and I was babysitting his house.I swapped my cheapie Sanyo amp in replacing his McIntosh power amp. I wasn't able to do a direct comparison because it required rewiring his speakers, but it sounded the same to me. I thought I'd be able to hear a difference, but I couldn't.

 

[seanheis]

Older gear is somewhat more similar than different. Today's systems have a lot more resolution, for better or worse. When you get into the Electrostat or Planar speakers, even differences between DACs become noticeable....assuming that everything else is familiar.

 

[gregorio]

.but if somebody tried to slip a new amp in my system at home with my music, it would not be difficult to tell that something was different.

Assuming your amp is not deliberately coloured/lowers fidelity and is of an adequate power/impedance, then swapping it with a different amp (which also doesn't deliberately colour the sound, is of adequate power/impedance for your speaker or HPs and is volume matched) would be impossible for you to differentiate by sound alone. This has been demonstrated countless times over a period of several decades, even though you believe/think it absurd.

G

 

[seanheis]

All the tests that I have seen were in situations where listeners were in an unfamiliar room with unfamiliar speakers and music. It's not difficult to change the sound of an amp. Adjusting the bias and negative feedback will change the sound for example.

 

[TheSonicTruth]

Julian Hirsch of Stereo Review did a blind test of a cheap consumer amp against an audiophile one back in the 70's and the results were random. I was a subscriber back then, months of diatribe againt Hirsch by irate audiophiles ensued in subsequent issues, he created quite a stir. I tried to find a copy of the story on the web but couldn't locate it. He was THE pioneer in this debate.

The late Hirsch was my hero in the magazine circuit! Explained things in terms even those who didn't own a single piece of equipment could understand.

 

[analogsurviver]

https://www.americanradiohistory.com/

 

[TheSonicTruth]

https://www.americanradiohistory.com/

Thank you Analog - I feel like a kid in a candy shop now!

 

[bfreedma]

https://www.americanradiohistory.com/

Thanks! - great link. Permanently bookmarked.

 

[bigshot]

Older gear is somewhat more similar than different. Today's systems have a lot more resolution, for better or worse. When you get into the Electrostat or Planar speakers, even differences between DACs become noticeable....assuming that everything else is familiar.

Have you been able to determine differences between DACs yourself under controlled conditions (blind, level matched, direct A/B switched) or can you point me to a published test that proved that? Everything I've read about or tested myself tells me the exact opposite. I've compared a $40 Walmart DVD player to an Oppo HA-1 and I couldn't detect any difference at all using Oppo PM-1s. The same goes for my blu-ray players, iPods, iPhones and computers. Everything I've ever bought sounds the same. I'd be interested in hearing about solid evidence proving there is something out there that sounds different.

 

[seanheis]

Yes, I can tell the difference when using my Magnepan speakers...but it becomes difficult to tell the difference with my cone and dome speakers. Some folks find that 128k MP3 sounds the same as FLAC. I believe them....it's their gear and their ears in their room.

 

[Zapp_Fan]

The important part of Bigshot's question is whether you've actually done it under controlled conditions - blind, level-matched, etc. It's also easy to tell the difference between two (otherwise identically-performing) sources if there's even a 1dB difference in levels between the two sources. It's almost impossible not to hear a difference between two identical sources if you're getting up, plugging in a different source, going back to your seat, and hitting play 30+ seconds later, especially when you expect to hear one.

In my personal and professional experience it's actually harder to convince yourself you don't hear a difference between two device, than identify a "clearly audible" difference. For many of us it's a very dispiriting result, psychologically. In our minds we want to find something, finding nothing is no fun.

 

[sonitus mirus]

Yes, I can tell the difference when using my Magnepan speakers...but it becomes difficult to tell the difference with my cone and dome speakers. Some folks find that 128k MP3 sounds the same as FLAC. I believe them....it's their gear and their ears in their room.

How were you verifying that an audible difference was identifiable? Were you just switching devices and figuring that the cheapest DAC or amp sounded inferior?

 

[seanheis]

Blind level matched ABX box.

 

[Zapp_Fan]

Blind level matched ABX box.

Well that is certainly better than 98% of people who march in claiming they hear something that's not supposed to be hear-able.

What were the amps in question if you don't mind sharing?

 

[bigshot]

What kind of blind level matched ABX box testing? I'm interested in your test setup. Was the difference significant? How many tests did you do to determine the difference. Could you tell the difference every time, or most of the time? What did the difference sound like?