[roy_jones]

Quote:

 

 
Of course, the Pepsi Challenge...When people blind tested Coke and Pepsi in the "Pepsi challenge," 57% chose Pepsi, yet they only had 4% of the soft drink market while Coke had 18%. When they knew which one was Coke, they overwhelmingly chose Coke.  It wasn't about the taste, and it still isn't, it's all about the brand.  And there are examples in every product category.  
 
If you're interested in this effect from a marketing perspective, check out All Marketers are Liers (bad name, good book).
 
It's interesting if you think about it...your brain ends up making the brand's claims true, subjectively.

While I don't think it necessarily relates to the results of the Coke/Pepsi challenge, I know for sure that I could identify (and greatly prefer) the taste of Coke in a blinded test 100 times out of 100.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

This thread is about doing the test and publishing the results, not 'knowing' how you will do it the test

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

This thread is about doing the test and publishing the results, not 'knowing' how you will do it the test

 
 
While I understand and fully agree with your point, I've been served Pepsi at a restaurant before after asking for Coke without being told that it isn't Coke - and I've angrily identified the Pepsi as such.  And I'm not talking about in the South where you get a "Pepsi Coke" - this is in Michigan.
 
But we're talking about audiophile claims and myths, not foodie ones!

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

 
While I understand and fully agree with your point, I've been served Pepsi at a restaurant before after asking for Coke without being told that it isn't Coke - and I've angrily identified the Pepsi as such.  And I'm not talking about in the South where you get a "Pepsi Coke" - this is in Michigan.
 
But we're talking about audiophile claims and myths, not foodie ones!

I've had that happen to me a few times in the south.  A few times I even got RC.  Its not as good as Coke, but at least its better than Pepsi...

 

[aristos_achaion]

Quote:

I've had that happen to me a few times in the south.  A few times I even got RC.  Its not as good as Coke, but at least its better than Pepsi...

Quite naturally, since in the South, you're supposed to drink sweet tea. 

 

[Shike]

Quote:

I've had that happen to me a few times in the south.  A few times I even got RC.  Its not as good as Coke, but at least its better than Pepsi...

ಠ_ಠ
 
Pepsi > you.
 
Still, I've done blind tests with Coke and Pepsi and can tell them apart.  There are some oddballs though that if thrown in will mess me up (like RC and store brands).  I've started drinking store brands though because, quite frankly I'm cheap and they taste okay.

 

[EthanWiner]

Quote:

I know for sure that I could identify (and greatly prefer) the taste of Coke in a blinded test 100 times out of 100.

I'm not saying you can't tell them apart, but have you ever actually tested yourself blind? My wife and I tested each other with sugar versus corn syrup Coke, and cream soda. The results surprised me:
 
Soda Blind Test
 
--Ethan

 

[Heidegger]

Or maybe the improvements are for real. It's the position of the people I've heard from on this thread that there is no such thing as burn in. I bought a brand-new amp not too long ago. When I first listened to it I was horrified by what I heard. It was a gut reaction; it was obvious; it was total. I really thought about returning it. But on the hope that the sound would improve, I kept it. Well, the amp sounds great now and I'm glad I kept it. Maybe somebody out there reading this thread who knows about amps would like to say a few words about why burn-in is an actual physical phenomenon? For headphones, the people at Headroom told me that break-in has to do with the diaphragm. There must be some physical explanation for why my amp sounds better now than when I first got it. I've already taken note of the "it's all in your head/placebo" explanation. Now I'd like to hear from the other side.

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

Or maybe the improvements are for real. It's the position of the people I've heard from on this thread that there is no such thing as burn in. I bought a brand-new amp not too long ago. When I first listened to it I was horrified by what I heard. It was a gut reaction; it was obvious; it was total. I really thought about returning it. But on the hope that the sound would improve, I kept it. Well, the amp sounds great now and I'm glad I kept it. Maybe somebody out there reading this thread who knows about amps would like to say a few words about why burn-in is an actual physical phenomenon? For headphones, the people at Headroom told me that break-in has to do with the diaphragm. There must be some physical explanation for why my amp sounds better now than when I first got it. I've already taken note of the "it's all in your head/placebo" explanation. Now I'd like to hear from the other side.

Even our biological condition will cause our hearing to change. For example, if you drank too much coffee, or you didn't get enough sleep, or you were exposed to loud noises earlier, or you have having a bad sinus day with your allergy, and so on. The things might sound fatiguing one day, but the next day sounds just fine--it's your changing biology that's often the cause. 
 
Also, if you just got a new audio device and it is exhibiting a response that's foreign to you, it'll stick out because it is emphasizing certain frequencies, or maybe the transients are different, or whatever. But once you start to get used to it, they no longer stick out because they are no longer foreign to you. The devices hasn't changed--your perception has. 
 
But this is just a couple of possible explanations--there are others, and in some cases, certain designs can actually cause changes in how something sounds due to changing temperature, moisture, oxidizing--who knows? 
 
Anyone who pays attention to this and have seen/heard authoritative information regarding it, all pretty much agree that so-called burn-in is not nearly as prevalent as people think it is, and it's always the uninformed who regurgitate the false information. Some products do require burn-in, and the user's manual for that product will tell you so, such as Digidesign's RM1 and RM2 speakers--they SPECIFICALLY tell the user to allow a certain amount of time to loosen up the drivers. I feel that if the manufacturer does not tell you it is required, then it isn't. To think that all designs require it would be like saying all products are designed to the exact same specifications--that just isn't true. OVERWHELMINGLY, most products on the market do NOT require burn-in in any way shape or form.
 
 

 

[nick_charles]

 
Quote:

Or maybe the improvements are for real. It's the position of the people I've heard from on this thread that there is no such thing as burn in. I bought a brand-new amp not too long ago. When I first listened to it I was horrified by what I heard. It was a gut reaction; it was obvious; it was total. I really thought about returning it. But on the hope that the sound would improve, I kept it. Well, the amp sounds great now and I'm glad I kept it..

 
Um, you are being a bit selective about the details of your experience you recount, you also were messing about with the gain switch which adds a confounding variable yes ?
 
 

 

[EthanWiner]

Quote:

The things might sound fatiguing one day, but the next day sounds just fine--it's your changing biology that's often the cause.

This is the correct answer to the question "Why does the sound of gear change?" The gear doesn't change, our ears and our perception change. This is not a difficult concept. I don't understand why some people refuse to accept it. Has the same food never tasted different to you on different days? Has the same amount of light at night in your bedroom never seemed brighter or dimmer some days? The same happens with hearing, and I'd argue that hearing varies even more than other senses.
 
--Ethan

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Quote:

This is the correct answer to the question "Why does the sound of gear change?" The gear doesn't change, our ears and our perception change. This is not a difficult concept. I don't understand why some people refuse to accept it. Has the same food never tasted different to you on different days? Has the same amount of light at night in your bedroom never seemed brighter or dimmer some days? The same happens with hearing, and I'd argue that hearing varies even more than other senses.
 
--Ethan

Which is much more convincing explanation that the difference is inherent in the cable.
 

 

[Heidegger]

Quote:

 

 
Um, you are being a bit selective about the details of your experience you recount, you also were messing about with the gain switch which adds a confounding variable yes ?
 
 

"Messing around" sounds like I was doing something wrong. The gain switch is there to be, um, switched. But yes: When I first bought the amp, I believe it was set to 10dB, and it sounded horrible. I followed burn-in instructions that I found right here at head-fi. At some point, I also adjusted the gain switch to 18dB. The sound improved considerably. I can't absolutely say whether it was due to the gain or to break-in. However, the 10dB setting now sounds fantastic, much better than when I first got the amp. The fact that the 10dB setting improved -- the very setting that sounded horrible when I first got the amp -- leads me to believe it is due to burn-in. I suspect that all those here who are telling me that my hearing, not the amp, is what changed, don't quite realize just how atrocious this amp sounded at first (distant, indistinct, blurry, slow, and boring as hell) and therefore how obvious the change has been. To say that it was my hearing that adjusted to the amp, I would have to believe that my hearing adjusted to the utter crap that I heard when I first got the amp. But rather than trying to convince people, which isn't going to happen, I want to find out what physical explanations there might be for why the sound of the amp -- not my hearing -- changed so dramatically. The physics of burn-in, so to speak. I found information on the web about burn-in relative to speakers and headphones, but not much for amps.
 

 

[Heidegger]

 
Quote:

1. I don't understand why some people refuse to accept it.
 
2. Has the same food never tasted different to you on different days?
 
--Ethan

1. Because I would then have to accept the "fact" that my amp is a piece of garbage, and that I have grown accustomed to listening to garbage. Not only that, but I would have to accept the "fact" that garbage now sounds great to me. Because garbage is exactly what this amp sounded like when I first got it. The other possibility would be that the amp really sounded great when I first got it, but that I only thought it sounded like garbage.
 
2. Only slightly, unless I am sick. When I'm sick, then food really does taste terrible. But I wasn't sick when I got the amp.
 
 

 

[Heidegger]

 
Quote:

1. Even our biological condition will cause our hearing to change. For example, if you drank too much coffee, or you didn't get enough sleep, or you were exposed to loud noises earlier, or you have having a bad sinus day with your allergy, and so on. The things might sound fatiguing one day, but the next day sounds just fine--it's your changing biology that's often the cause. 
 
2. Also, if you just got a new audio device and it is exhibiting a response that's foreign to you, it'll stick out because it is emphasizing certain frequencies, or maybe the transients are different, or whatever. But once you start to get used to it, they no longer stick out because they are no longer foreign to you. The devices hasn't changed--your perception has. 
 
3. But this is just a couple of possible explanations--there are others, and in some cases, certain designs can actually cause changes in how something sounds due to changing temperature, moisture, oxidizing--who knows? 
 
 

1. The day before yesterday I played some SACDs and it seemed that the amp was emphasizing the treble too much. The music sounded a little too bright and somewhat unpleasant. I couldn't make out the mids that well. I played the exact discs yesterday and they sounded GREAT. Go figure. But the burn-in experience was more dramatic than that.
2. That's possible, but there's a difference between things sticking out and the music sounding totally lifeless and slow. I can't emphasize that enough: slow and utterly unengaging when I first got it.
3. Other explanations -- that's what I'm asking about.