[cel4145]

Specifics for case mentioned is somewhere here : http://www.head-fi.org/t/425849/korg-mr-1-can-this-be-used-as-a-portable-player

Existing cards that interface via IDE provide perfect PLAYBACK - so no problems used fpr DAPs. Korg MR-1/1000/2000S is a RECORDER - and rates for writing required are faster.  Tascam DA-3000 DSD recorder does use "cards", yet there is a list of what does work and what does not - utilizing the full resolution of the recorder. Lesser cards will work with a lesser resolution selected on the recorder.

So, checking the compatibility/capability of your gear and intended use is case to case specific - sometimes you can use inexpensive stuff, sometimes you can not.

So your issue was write speeds. Read speeds are much faster, typically at least 2 or 3 times faster. I have a lot of trouble imagining that DAPs are having any trouble with the read speeds on any Class 10 cards.

With portable gear, where smaller/lighter is always better , you can not afford larger distances between digital garbage and sensitive analog circuits - and reduced EMI/RFI from the new Sony card, if it is real, is in this case a plus.

How do you know that other micro sd cards add audible noise to the signal? If they don't, then it's not a "plus" to spend all that money on that card. I think this new card is probably just a solution in search of a problem.

 

[analogsurviver]

So your issue was write speeds. Read speeds are much faster, typically at least 2 or 3 times faster. I have a lot of trouble imagining that DAPs are having any trouble with the read speeds on any Class 10 cards.
How do you know that other micro sd cards add audible noise to the signal? If they don't, then it's not a "plus" to spend all that money on that card. I think this new card is probably just a solution in search of a problem.

I did state what the problem was. Still is - I really must check is this Sony card can write fast enough. 
 
I DO NOT know for sure whether other SD cards add audible noise or not - because I do not own any device using them - yet. But I do know that I do prefer external USB CD burner with its own power supply over the version of the same for mounting in the PC itself - because PC is the last place one can find decent power supply. 
 
Miniaturization took a HEAVY toll on recording equipment - anything in now almost mandatory 1U rack size is simply too small - and forces the use of next best quality components that can be cramped into so small volume. Meant is PRO level gear - now you can imagine what my opinion on a smartphone sized audio might be.
 
OK, it works . Question is - HOW ? Or better - how much better it could have been if not necessary squeezed in those thin sizes/volumes ...
 
I am no way pushing for this new Sony card (far more pressing purchases than that on the horizon ) - but although I am no Sony fan, at least not a huge one, they did come up with better than competition solutions in the past - although at cost. And were not challenged for considerable time, if at all. 
 
I hope this new card does have some real purpose and justification for its existence. Sony did push in the past batteries and "memories" all proprietary, which served no other purpose but forcing its customers to remain loyal to Sony if they wanted to use their Sony equipment at all. This luckily changed in the last few years - standard batteries, standard "cards" , etc.  If they managed to pack something tangibly better in this new card, it is fine with me - but only if. The price is always a factor - but if the new card is fast enough for my use, it is a WILD BARGAIN compared to Hoodman's - just do the math of capacity/price.
 
For pure playback, the only real benefit could come from reduced EMI/RFI and of course reduced power consumption - portable devices do not run on batteries, which by now have stabilized more or less in capacity, forever...
 
Every one has to consider what his/hers requirements are - and whether he/she can afford it. This Sony card is probably OTT for most DAP users, might be beneficial with some gear and might be indespensable with admittedly even less gear. Whether it is worth it, depends on each case by case basis. And if it does provide some real benefit, will spark competitive manufacturers to come up with something similar at lower price or something better at the same price. Which should benefit us all.
 
I, as everyone else, would like to have my sports bulldozer with low mileage - for free. Yet we all know this will remain in the domain of dreams only. In real world, I will always go for the minimum that will unconditionally support the result required - sometimes it will be a 0.50 $ RCA connector, sometimes it will have to be a $500 SD card - because nothing else would do. 

 

[KeithEmo]

Because they are both simply ways of describing the same basic "thing" - although they describe it in different ways.
 
If you have a sound source that is in phase at all frequencies, then all frequencies are being produced (or delivered) at their proper times. "Shifting the phase of certain frequencies" is simply another way of saying that you will be altering the times at which they arrive. Likewise, if you delay everything in one channel by a fixed time (like by moving the speaker two feet further away), then you will be altering the phase of everything you hear from that channel (relative to the other channel you didn't move).
 
The two are mathematically linked, and you can calculate one from the other, but they are not the same. For a given shift in time, the amount of phase shift it produces will depend on the frequency; and, for a given shift in phase, the amount of time shift it is equal to will depend on frequency.
 
In other words, when phase is entirely perfect, time response will also be perfect, but when either is NOT perfect, then the other won't be either, but the numbers describing the error will look different depending on which way you do so.
 
 
Quote:

  So do people call phase issues a "time domain" problem?

 

[KeithEmo]

The part you don't understand is that the Japanese market is even more into silly little high-tech audiophile gadgets than the American market. There are lots of products (both legitimately cool ones and silly ones) that are quite popular in Japan but not even sold in the US. (I had a portable minidisc recorder years ago - which was cool and quite expensive; I had to have it shipped in from Japan because American stores were still only selling portable cassette recorders and CD players.)
 
I agree entirely that the mainstream American market isn't going to buy any of these, which is undoubtedly why Sony released them in Japan.
 
Quote:

I don't get this?

Why are SONY which are a totally major brand making this product?

I would have thought SONY as a trusted brand but now I'm totally confused?

 

[StanD]

 
The part you don't understand is that the Japanese market is even more into silly little high-tech audiophile gadgets than the American market. There are lots of products (both legitimately cool ones and silly ones) that are quite popular in Japan but not even sold in the US. (I had a portable minidisc recorder years ago - which was cool and quite expensive; I had to have it shipped in from Japan because American stores were still only selling portable cassette recorders and CD players.)
 
I agree entirely that the mainstream American market isn't going to buy any of these, which is undoubtedly why Sony released them in Japan.

"There's a sucker born every minute." - David Hannum
I'm sure there are audiophools in the USA that will buy it along with silver and gold USB cables.

 

[RRod]

 

 
Yeah I can understand the use of "time problem" in that way. I just think that many people don't understand that phase shift/delay are things you actually get from frequency analysis.

 

[Phishin Phool]

   
Yeah I can understand the use of "time problem" in that way. I just think that many people don't understand that phase shift/delay are things you actually get from frequency analysis.

What - that does not sound right to me phase and time delay are from speakers not being equidistant and the waves not arriving uniformly and/or speakers being wired backwards inverting the phase . Exactly how does freq response analysis have anything to do with that?

 

[Phishin Phool]

Because they are both simply ways of describing the same basic "thing" - although they describe it in different ways.
 
If you have a sound source that is in phase at all frequencies, then all frequencies are being produced (or delivered) at their proper times. "Shifting the phase of certain frequencies" is simply another way of saying that you will be altering the times at which they arrive. Likewise, if you delay everything in one channel by a fixed time (like by moving the speaker two feet further away), then you will be altering the phase of everything you hear from that channel (relative to the other channel you didn't move).
 
The two are mathematically linked, and you can calculate one from the other, but they are not the same. For a given shift in time, the amount of phase shift it produces will depend on the frequency; and, for a given shift in phase, the amount of time shift it is equal to will depend on frequency.
 
In other words, when phase is entirely perfect, time response will also be perfect, but when either is NOT perfect, then the other won't be either, but the numbers describing the error will look different depending on which way you do so.

That is different then what I have been led to believe - time domain is described as the same but phase shift I have been led to believe is due to the speaker being wired backward (red to black and black to red) causing the wave to be inverted and hence out of phase - two sound waves can have the same frequency and timing but be 180 out of phase

those waves have the same frequency and timing but are out of phase.

 

[RRod]

  What - that does not sound right to me phase and time delay are from speakers not being equidistant and the waves not arriving uniformly and/or speakers being wired backwards inverting the phase . Exactly how does freq response analysis have anything to do with that?

 
Ah, so then it's just using a term in different contexts. Phase shift, phase delay, and group delay are analytic outcomes from a DFT analysis, and when we're talking about something like the effect of EQ on "phase", that's what we mean (i.e. what does the phase shift of an impulse look like after EQ).

 

[StanD]

  That is different then what I have been led to believe - time domain is described as the same but phase shift I have been led to believe is due to the speaker being wired backward (red to black and black to red) causing the wave to be inverted and hence out of phase - two sound waves can have the same frequency and timing but be 180 out of phase
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 
those waves have the same frequency and timing but are out of phase.

Phase shift is measured in degrees at a specific frequency. When it is 180 Deg out of phase and combined equally (amplitude) with the original that is called destructive interference as it cancels that signal and might be a simple inversion at all frequencies which how ANC (Active Noise Cancellation) tries to work.
When it varies with frequency the losses vary with frequency, Musicians use this with an effects box called a Phase Shifter which can give a an effect of a moving comb filter. The also use flanging which is  a time domain effect, originally done using varying analog tape delay in the recording studio.
Below is a link for a popular effects box. There are sample sounds at this webpage.
http://www.bossus.com/products/ph-3/

 

[dprimary]

  That is different then what I have been led to believe - time domain is described as the same but phase shift I have been led to believe is due to the speaker being wired backward (red to black and black to red) causing the wave to be inverted and hence out of phase - two sound waves can have the same frequency and timing but be 180 out of phase

those waves have the same frequency and timing but are out of phase.

It is a common incorrect use of the term phase. You are not 180 degrees out of phase there is nothing you can do in the time domain to correct it. You have reversed polarity.

 

[Phishin Phool]

 
It is a common incorrect use of the term phase. You are not 180 degrees out of phase there is nothing you can do in the time domain to correct it. You have reversed polarity.

Thank you for the clarification but I have another question if that second wave was time shifted 1/2 cycle would it not be in phase with the other and thus can be corrected by a time shift. 

 

[dprimary]

For a continuous sine wave yes you could delay one of them to get them to line up. How ever it would not really be in phase or corrected the polarity, even though it would look like you did on a scope. For complex wave you could never get them to line up. Sometimes the simple sine waves used for illustrations make us over look what is really going on.

 

[Phishin Phool]

Thanks appreciate the info!

 

[davidsh]

 


It is a common incorrect use of the term phase. You are not 180 degrees out of phase there is nothing you can do in the time domain to correct it. You have reversed polarity.

Thank you for the clarification but I have another question if that second wave was time shifted 1/2 cycle would it not be in phase with the other and thus can be corrected by a time shift. 

It's because phase shift is likely regarded to be regarded as +/- 90 degrees as that is what can be achieved with caps/inductors. Correct me if I'm wrong