[analogsurviver]

   
Oh Oh Oh I think i know this one!!!! [wildly raising, waving hand  in the air]
 
FUSES!!@!
omg i wish i were kidding
 
Cheers

Wrong.
 
That would be far too easy - I have yet to see "an audiophile fuse" in flesh 

. 

 

[ab initio]

Wrong.

That would be far too easy - I have yet to see "an audiophile fuse" in flesh :duggfloat: . 

Click the link and prepare to be amazed!

Cheers

 

[analogsurviver]

You'll notice it is not a thread in "sound science." Or backed by much in the way of rigorous evidence.

I have yet to see a convincing case made for how two caps with identical measurement characteristics (and same type e.g. film/ceramic) - but differing materials and price - could even possibly affect sound. Even if you deliberately designed an amplifier with such a topology as to be especially sensitive to capacitor changes (which you probably should not do anyway.)

Caveat... Obviously you could choose one with decidedly non-linear response to contrast... I consider this like comparing a broken circuit. Not really in the spirit of what we are saying.

There is such a case - curiously, provided by an IC manufacturer, specially meant for portable audio equipment. As space in portable is at premium, the only way to reduce the deleterious effects of capacitors ( one can fit into available volume ) is to use circuitry that allows lower capacitance values ( and hence better quality capacitors in volume available ) for achieving the same bandwidth - and their ICs offer just that. Things go so far that the THD in low frequencies is governed by the capacitor(s) - everything else is at least an order of magnitude better. Never before I did see anything conviencing like this case regarding capacitor influence on audio - should have bookmarked that page... - wait, it was Maxim . Will try to re-find it and post it here.
 
Principle of course remains the same for other capacitors for audio. Although the benefits of super duper caps does get ever smaller with increasing price, going from electrolytic to film and/or ceramic to polystirene is at least an improvement of two orders of magnitude - at the same nominal capacitance. And it IS audible.
 
For the general pointer what to look for, please check the mother of all capacitor articles  http://waltjung.org/PDFs/Picking_Capacitors_1.pdf
or
http://www.reliablecapacitors.com/pickcap.htm
 
For the above reason, avoiding capacitors whenever possible is desirable. There are loudspeaker crossover made only with inductors and resistors  - as well as phono RIAA preamplifiers. Both at the upper end of the price scale. 

 

[davidsh]

I am speachless, just one among many:
NEW!!! Quantum Temple Bell, handheld Tibetan brass bell that improves audio and video when rung in strategic locations around the room. Instructions for use provided. $129 each. 

 

[bigshot]

  And it IS audible.

 
Cite the DBT or it doesn't count in this thread!

 

[thune]

I don't come into sound-science much. Is it normally a group-heckling slum? I can get that a million other places on the web.
 
Here are some nice articles on capacitor distortion, recently made available online:
http://www.linearaudio.nl/linearaudio.nl/index.php/my-library/cyril-bateman-s-capacitor-sound-articles

 

[Yazen]

Click the link and prepare to be amazed!

Cheers

Is there an audiophile elixir that allows you to hear ultrasound? 
 
Quote:

  I am speachless, just one among many:
NEW!!! Quantum Temple Bell, handheld Tibetan brass bell that improves audio and video when rung in strategic locations around the room. Instructions for use provided. $129 each. 

Need to arrange a group buy.  In for 10!!

 

[liamstrain]

  Here are some nice articles on capacitor distortion, recently made available online:
http://www.linearaudio.nl/linearaudio.nl/index.php/my-library/cyril-bateman-s-capacitor-sound-articles

 
Cheers, I'll read through. Appreciate the article link.

 

[analogsurviver]

  I don't come into sound-science much. Is it normally a group-heckling slum? I can get that a million other places on the web.
 
Here are some nice articles on capacitor distortion, recently made available online:
http://www.linearaudio.nl/linearaudio.nl/index.php/my-library/cyril-bateman-s-capacitor-sound-articles

Thank you for the links. At first glance, they seem to bring an update to what I was familiar before, I will read trough it all. Much appreciated.

 

[analogsurviver]

   
Cite the DBT or it doesn't count in this thread!

A little hard to do.
 
Why ? I will repeat: I have a friend with whom we "regularly sporadically" meet. He was " trough one ear in, trough one ear out" - UNTIL he heard the first of my modified amplifiers in his own system. Ever since, he did change te tune.
 
In principle, such a DBT could be arranged, using a stock and modified amp - and DBT ABXed. Best way to do it would be at some HF meet - with say 5 30 second samples per person, trough an ABX box of sufficient quality, level matched to within 0.1 dB or better, driving a good pair of headphones ( AKG K 1000 ) - or in case a WELL TREATED room with speakers can be arranged, this could be used as alternative and/or instead. The number of participants could be large enough in both headphone and loudspeaker scenario - but I prefer headphones, as seating arrangement of any loudspeaker system limits correct impression to the line in the middle of the room, with maximum three seats depth; everything else is too compromised to be truly relevant, although it could still be used in case listeners do not change their positions. All of the above requires quite some money to be arranged - which I simply can not afford at the time.
 
As written before, I CAN make amplifier test - by comparing two live recordings of the same music made with the same resolution on two recorders, one stock and one modified. And post the 30 second files to be DBT ABXed on head-fi by anyone interested in the leisure of his/hers home. I can include original DSD128 as well PCM - preferably 44.1/16 redbook - as noted in my posts, foobar does not (yet?) support native DSD under ABX comparator ( it changes DSD to 192/24 under ABX). This way, both amplifiers AND DSD vs PCM can be tested - the later only by those in possesion of native DSD playback.
 
That is what is within my (financial) capabilities at the moment and I am willing to provide in say 3 weeks from now on ( recordings are yet to take place in this time frame ).

 

[castleofargh]

  I don't come into sound-science much. Is it normally a group-heckling slum? I can get that a million other places on the web.
 
Here are some nice articles on capacitor distortion, recently made available online:
http://www.linearaudio.nl/linearaudio.nl/index.php/my-library/cyril-bateman-s-capacitor-sound-articles

interesting read when you're curious about the subject thx. but as a pure audiophile(sound sound sound!!!!!!) I don't get the point of looking after capacitors. of course for a product manufacturer, or a few DIYers it's mighty important, but for me the product user? if my product can give under 100 or 110DB in distortion, then obviously the capacitors are also below that value(or they did something to correct the signal afterward). in any case it's taken care of. so isn't that a false problem?
I know I could give the same argument for half our discussions here where people struggle between audibly perfect and audibly night and day perfecterer(what I now call the yellow M&M's), but if the end result is good(measurement good), why cares about the individual components? obviously the engineer did something right and the "problem" is solved for at least audio purpose.

 

[analogsurviver]

 
interesting read when you're curious about the subject thx. but as a pure audiophile(sound sound sound!!!!!!) I don't get the point of looking after capacitors. of course for a product manufacturer, or a few DIYers it's mighty important, but for me the product user? if my product can give under 100 or 110DB in distortion, then obviously the capacitors are also below that value(or they did something to correct the signal afterward). in any case it's taken care of. so isn't that a false problem?
I know I could give the same argument for half our discussions here where people struggle between audibly perfect and audibly night and day perfecterer(what I now call the yellow M&M's), but if the end result is good(measurement good), why cares about the individual components? obviously the engineer did something right and the "problem" is solved for at least audio purpose.

There are usually several capacitors in series - from input to output. And their defficiences do add up. A single bad capacitor may ruin entire chain - rendering all other good ones installed effectively useless. 
 
Why does the use of good capacitors get limited to DIYers in most cases ? Co$t i$$ue$. The general rule of thumb in electronics is (roughly)
 
Any inbuilt material costs  times five = retail price ( to take care of research & development, retail and support costs ).
 
An aluminium polar capacitor costs next to nothing compared to film variety, specially better films ; same ceramic vs polystirene - polystirene is especially troublesome as it is next to impossible to use in automated setttings for soldering, necessitating manual labour, further increasing the cost. An average SMD based printed circuit board got automatically stuffed and soldered in the time you read the last sentence - and is the same time required to manually solder a single polystirene capacitor. Robot is cheaper than man, time is money ... - that is why even VERY highly rated manufacturers no longer go to these lenghts . 
 
A single look into most of the measuring gear ( HP, Tektronix, etc ) will quickly reveal the problem - they have their share of bean counters too, with aluminumm polar electrolitics and ceramic capacitors - introducing about the same level of error as the devices supposed to be measured by this equipment.
 
Clear enough ?

 

[castleofargh]

sure but again, if the output distortion of the gear is below audible levels why should that matter? what matters is the result, if someone gets good results with cheap stuff, then great job. well I bought the O2 so it should say it all about my opinion on the matter of cheap components.

 

[Steve Eddy]

sure but again, if the output distortion of the gear is below audible levels why should that matter?

Because it's really just a big numbers game. It's really no different than the THD wars back in the '70s.

se

 

[ab initio]

 
A single look into most of the measuring gear ( HP, Tektronix, etc ) will quickly reveal the problem - they have their share of bean counters too, with aluminumm polar electrolitics and ceramic capacitors - introducing about the same level of error as the devices supposed to be measured by this equipment.

 
Wait a second.... are we accusing the leading manufactures of electronic test instruments of selling test equipment that doesn't meet the performance specifications because they didn't use audiophile components?
 
No scientist in their right mind conducts a measurement with an instrument incapable of resolving the desired signal. This is experimental methods 101.
 
Cheers