[KinGensai]

At the high end of that scale, the only thing to relate to is the sound of the letters spoken, and it doesn’t represent the sound at all. Ts doesn’t sound like the high frequency squeal of upper frequencies. I really don’t know the difference between two os and three. I think there are much better ways to learn what frequency bands sound like. Just sitting down with an equalizer and dialing frequencies in and out will vividly illustrate what the various bands sound like… and hearing the changes in music will show you the relative importance of the various frequencies and will help you identify imbalances when you run across them.

Multi-sensory learning is the key concept being applied here. I have a visual perceptual bias and anthropocentric heuristic bias, so conjoining the three concepts of audio, visual, and the spoken word helps me recall quickly. Learning efficiently requires adapting the teaching mode to the pupil's biases, a concept lost in modern schools unfortunately.

 

[bigshot]

If you’re using a cue that doesn’t match the context of what it’s supposed to represent, I’m not sure what you’re learning. Wouldn’t it be better to just learn what the frequencies actually sound like, rather than applying some sort of Morse code to represent it?

Just spend an afternoon with some music and a graphic equalizer.

 

[KinGensai]

If you’re using a cue that doesn’t match the context of what it’s supposed to represent, I’m not sure what you’re learning. Wouldn’t it be better to just learn what the frequencies actually sound like, rather than applying some sort of Morse code to represent it?

Just spend an afternoon with some music and a graphic equalizer.

The nature of the cue does not really matter, the temporal relation does. The same concept is used in countless examples of applied psychology like marketing and hypnotic imprinting. I don't understand why you are attempting to argue against the established literature regarding multimodal learning.

Look, I'm not saying you are totally wrong, some people have an aural perceptual bias, and they probably do learn best by what you are saying. I tried doing that first and it wasn't clicking, charts were visually noisy but still useful. That video did the trick for me because it associated the actual sound with a simple visual image and concept.

By the way, for future reference, you can tell what kind of perceptual bias people have within one post or a few minutes of conversation. For example, note how I used the word Look in the second paragraph. In contexts like this, people unconsciously default to words that relate to a sensory mode. "Listen here" or "this feels like a contradiction" or "this seems like a bright IEM" are examples of this. If you want to adapt your conversation style to suit a person, you can then adopt that kind of language and imagery to form rapport. Good salespeople use this technique, if you watch carefully you'll see it in action.

 

[gregorio]

You straw-man me telling me how I supposedly interpreted something and then you tell me I interpreted that something wrongly. How do you even know how I interpreted the video?

Hang on, you asked me comment on the video but then when I do, you get all butt hurt because you don’t like my comments.

The context of my response was, as already quoted; “using letter sounds”. So either your posted list of letters and corresponding freqs was just plain incorrect or you misinterpreted the fact that the video was effectively referring to a form of mnemonics rather than actual letter sounds.

G

 

[71 dB]

@71 dB
Well, it was actually me that used the term mnemonics here, I used my original verbage as a colloquialism for mnemonics, I didn't anticipate that it would be taken literally as the sound of the spoken letter itself.

You didn't attack what I wrote in any way and that's why I don't have any problem with you.

Gregorio has a tendency to interpret the content of an argument/statement very literally, which is comical at times, but understandably frustrating if English is not your primary language.

Yes.

I find it amusing how foreign English speakers show such uncertainty about their English when they end up using English better than many native english speakers.

I am pretty confident about my English. I have been mistaken as a native English speaker on one online discussion board (the person who made the assumption was pretty surprised to find out I am not). However, I am well aware of the fact that the vocabulary I am familiar with is quite limited, basic and only a fraction of what English language has to offer. English is a language which is relatively easy in the beginning, but becomes more and more difficult. My own language, Finnish, is the other way around. It is frustratingly difficult in the beginning (unless you are Estonian ), but becomes easier the further you get with it.

 

[gregorio]

The same concept is used in countless examples of applied psychology like marketing and hypnotic imprinting. I don't understand why you are attempting to argue against the established literature regarding multimodal learning.

TBH, I see both sides of this disagreement. On the one side, if the use of this mnemonic type trick helps people to more easily visualise/understand/remember something they otherwise wouldn’t, then it’s a useful tool for those people. On the other side is the objection I’ve already detailed regarding confusion, these mnemonics also have an actual sound, which does not in most cases correlate with the quoted freqs. My advice FWIW; this device is very vague/imprecise and only suitable for beginners anyway, so if it is employed as a beginner’s aid the potential for confusion should be noted/understood, it should be followed by a more precise training method and eventually discarded/forgotten.

G

 

[71 dB]

Hang on, you asked me comment on the video but then when I do, you get all butt hurt because you don’t like my comments.

It was sarcasm. I didn't expect you to actually comment on anything, but I should have expected, because it is you. Even if we forget about the sarcasm part, I "suggested" you to comment on the video on Youtube, not here. Sure, I wasn't very clear about that, because it was all sarcasm and I didn't expect you to comment on it anywhere.

The context of my response was, as already quoted; “using letter sounds”. So either your posted list of letters and corresponding freqs was just plain incorrect or you misinterpreted the fact that the video was effectively referring to a form of mnemonics rather than actual letter sounds.

G

Sounds can mean many things depending on the context. In regards of letters, the obvious context is the characteristics of different letters which is what tells them apart from each other in verbal communication. I have interpreted all along correctly how the video refers to mnemonics/characteristics of however you want to call it. I am also aware of the fact that interpreting things as actual letter sounds in this context doesn't make much sense. For some reason you keep bringing actual letter sounds up.

 

[bigshot]

I tend to learn things contextually. If I understand the concept, I never forget it. Attaching symbols and labels doesn’t work for me. I guess we all learn differently.

 

[KinGensai]

I tend to learn things contextually. If I understand the concept, I never forget it. Attaching symbols and labels doesn’t work for me. I guess we all learn differently.

You have a tactile perceptual bias, so I'd guess doing labs and applying concepts yourself solidified whatever you were learning.

 

[Ryokan]

Tried the cable that was causing an issue with the earphones it came with on two other iem's, and while the sound was good (no hint of thin sound or harshness) after a while it was obvious the mids were a little too forward and with one particularly fast song there was too much empathises in one area (mids). Put on a different cable, which costs around $100, and the sound is much more balanced and coherent. So for me cables do make a difference and one that may cause harshness won't necessarily with another earphone. Why the manufacturer paired a cable described as being:

'Where it really shines is in adding life to your upper-midrange instruments. Female vocals also particularly sparkle.
Anything that needs a pinch of upper midrange spice must be auditioned with this cable'

with an earphone that tends towards brightness I can't fathom, though maybe to others it sounds fine.
I would say it shows different cables work better with certain iem's, they have synergy. Not going to spend money buying testing equipment as after trying three different earphones with this cable I'm now certain a difference is fairly easily heard (would anything even be detectable with hobbyist gear?) even though many would say no difference can be detected from such a short cable, maybe the connectors have something to do with it? But whichever it is I hear a change when switching some of the cables I have, and ironically it's the very expensive one that doesn't enhance what it's paired with to my liking, and going by others any bias is usually shown to favor the most expensive item.

 

[KinGensai]

A question just occurred to me. From what I gather, a device's output impedance has to be matched to the transducer's input impedance at some ratio I can't remember at the moment. When a cable is used in an audio chain, which end of that equation does it affect, the output impedance or the input impedance?

 

[castleofargh]

A question just occurred to me. From what I gather, a device's output impedance has to be matched to the transducer's input impedance at some ratio I can't remember at the moment. When a cable is used in an audio chain, which end of that equation does it affect, the output impedance or the input impedance?

Kind of both. It's a matter of what you're looking at.
For the amplifier, if you plug a 4ohm IEM and a 3ohm cable, the amp deals with a higher load which is usually welcomed news for the amp and how it measures. If the cable is 0.6ohm, perhaps now the amplifier struggles too much into that tiny total impedance and starts distorting even at moderate volume level. Or maybe it will still be fine? Depends on the amplifier.
Obviously, I'm taking an extreme example. With a 300ohm headphone, the few ohms of difference between the 2 cables will become irrelevant for the amp.

From the load's point of view, it's sort of the same, but this time the cable "goes" with the amp for the analysis of what happens to the IEM or headphone. Same examples, The 4ohm IEM and say a 1ohm amp, we end up with 2 cables that could cause several dB of signature change(if the impedance curve of the IEM is a little wild, which it probably is if it can get as low as 4ohm somewhere). Or have one cable be noticeably louder.
But with our 300ohm headphone, the electrical damping ratio is still more than enough even with a 10ohm cable, and the possible frequency response or volume level change should be tiny enough that it's irrelevant between our 0.6 and 3ohm cables.

Both happen at the same time, but usually we're looking at how the change impacts one side in particular so we take a particular position to "look" at the cable.

 

[Ryokan]

Tried the cable that was causing an issue with the earphones it came with on two other iem's, and while the sound was good (no hint of thin sound or harshness) after a while it was obvious the mids were a little too forward and with one particularly fast song there was too much empathises in one area (mids). Put on a different cable, which costs around $100, and the sound is much more balanced and coherent. So for me cables do make a difference and one that may cause harshness won't necessarily with another earphone. Why the manufacturer paired a cable described as being:

Posting this as I want to be honest and report what I experience.
I put the iem's up for sale locally and put the original cable back on and thought I'd listen with them in case they might be practically unsellable to someone who would notice the issue straight away, and couldn't hear anything wrong and have listened with them for a few hours. All I can think is that it's possibly using a better fitting eartip but had no issues with tips using a cheaper cable.

 

[bigshot]

What do you think changed?

 

[Ryokan]

Burn In!

What do you think changed?

Bought some new tips that give a very good seal and can no longer hear the issues, even using the supplied cable.