[Beginner008]

 

Are you going to ignore one of the signal or are you able to source a 3.5mm connector with a built in transformer?

If you are going to ignore one of the signal then that is a waste of money!

(Balanced connection contain 3 conductors on each channel. 2 signal paths and one ground. Each signal is inverted to the other so any noise would be canceled out at the receiving end. You can make it work with only one signal and the ground connected but all benefit of a balanced connection will be losted!)

 
You are mistaken here and no transformer is needed either.  Transformer is needed on the signal side of things or op-amps to create a balanced signal for left & right channels.  
 
On a headphone cable side, you only need a separate signal & ground on left and right channel (so a total of 4 separate wires are needed).  You probably have not re-cabled your headphones cable before, but only pin 2 and 3 are active on the left & right side of conventional 3-pin XLR jack.  Shielding is not connected. For 4-pin XLR jack, all pins are active as follows:
 
Pin 1: Left Signal
Pin 2: Left Ground
Pin 3: Right Signal
Pin 4: Right Ground 
 
Same thing is done on a dual TRS mini-jacks of the Z7 & PHA-3 .  

In that case, it's not balanced, You still use the ground and one out of the two active signal path. This is single end by all mean. I am talking about the actual balanced signal path. If you just want to use a balanced connector for single end single, that up to you, but there is no benefit what so even by doing so!
 
Balanced connection:
 
Left Channel:
Wire 1 - Normal signal
Wire 2 - Inverted signal
Wire 3 - Ground
 
Right Channel:
Wire 1 - Normal signal
Wire 2 - Inverted signal
Wire 3 - Ground
 
There are only two connection on each side of the Z7, you can used wire 1 + wire 3 or wire 2 + wire 3 (Inverted sound, but still work), you cannot use wire 1 + wire 2 as it cancel out each other. 

 

[RandomHajile]

Yes, it has no "hot, cold and ground" connection

But what "balanced headphone" does?

I'm sure sony(and Pono) are just using the terminology of "balanced headphone" for what is really just a discret output without the use of a common ground.

 

[Beginner008]

Yes, it has no "hot, cold and ground" connection

But what "balanced headphone" does?

I'm sure sony(and Pono) are just using the terminology of "balanced headphone" for what is really just a discret output without the use of a common ground.

Yes, I agree with you if we only use Sony PHA-3 Amp. Most other amp would have a common ground inside anyway! It required a lot more work to design something without a common ground. Its a big no no for normal electronic!
 
In fact, I don't see much benefit on balanced connection on a high level signal like that. Even Sony own Kimber Kables were unshielded. I don't think they care too much about noise at all.

 

[purk]

 
In that case, it's not balanced, You still use the ground and one out of the two active signal path. This is single end by all mean. I am talking about the actual balanced signal path. If you just want to use a balanced connector for single end single, that up to you, but there is no benefit what so even by doing so!
 
Balanced connection:
 
Left Channel:
Wire 1 - Normal signal
Wire 2 - Inverted signal
Wire 3 - Ground
 
Right Channel:
Wire 1 - Normal signal
Wire 2 - Inverted signal
Wire 3 - Ground
 
There are only two connection on each side of the Z7, you can used wire 1 + wire 3 or wire 2 + wire 3 (Inverted sound, but still work), you cannot use wire 1 + wire 2 as it cancel out each other. 

 
 

Yes, it has no "hot, cold and ground" connection

But what "balanced headphone" does?

I'm sure sony(and Pono) are just using the terminology of "balanced headphone" for what is really just a discret output without the use of a common ground.

 
Sorry to confuse you guys.  A much better and less confusing article on balanced headphones amplification published by Headphone.com
 
http://www.headphone.com/pages/balanced-headphones-guide
 
What I should have said:
 
4-pin XLR
Pin 1 = Left +
Pin 2 = Left -
Pin 3 = Right +
Pin 4 = Right -
 
3-pin XLR
Pin 1 = not connect
Pin 2 = Left or Right +
Pin 3 = Left or Right -

 
Yes, I agree with you if we only use Sony PHA-3 Amp. Most other amp would have a common ground inside anyway! It required a lot more work to design something without a common ground. Its a big no no for normal electronic!
 
In fact, I don't see much benefit on balanced connection on a high level signal like that. Even Sony own Kimber Kables were unshielded. I don't think they care too much about noise at all.

The effect is very audible actually.  Balanced drive is a noticeable improvement over singled-end on all the amplifiers that I have including the PHA-3. 

 

[Beginner008]

   
 
 
Sorry to confuse you guys.  A much better and less confusing article on balanced headphones amplification published by Headphone.com
 
http://www.headphone.com/pages/balanced-headphones-guide
 
What I should have said:
 
4-pin XLR
Pin 1 = Left +
Pin 2 = Left -
Pin 3 = Right +
Pin 4 = Right -
 
3-pin XLR
Pin 1 = not connect
Pin 2 = Left or Right +
Pin 3 = Left or Right -
The effect is very audible actually.  Balanced drive is a noticeable improvement over singled-end on all the amplifiers that I have including the PHA-3. 

Well, that is an unusual way to use a balance output!

 

[Beginner008]

Well, that is an unusual way to use a balanced signal!

 

[purk]

 
Well, that is an unusual way to use a balanced signal!

That is quite common actually for every manufacturer.  I'm not sure what you are expecting?  Have you ever seen speaker with 3 connecting terminals?  Bi-amping doesn't count.  Let's get back to Z7 discussion.

 

[CDPlayer]

Just came back from Sony store after a quick listen to the Z7; I'd even say "embarrassingly quick" listen, because they immediately sounded very "congested" to me, on any track I tried. Source - iPhone 6 with lossless tracks that I know very well and listened to many times, both straight out of iPhone with TH-900, and via my bedside rig to either TH-900 or SR-009.. And I'm not talking some minute differences - it was very, blandly obvious.
 
I saw here a few comparisons with the TH-900 saying they're quite close (which is why I decided to give them a whirl, thinking of using Z7 during travel), but to me Z7 sounded nothing even close to TH-900. Is it just luck (maybe bad sample), or some other reason?

 

[akhyar]

Just came back from Sony store after a quick listen to the Z7; I'd even say "embarrassingly quick" listen, because they immediately sounded very "congested" to me, on any track I tried. Source - iPhone 6 with lossless tracks that I know very well and listened to many times, both straight out of iPhone with TH-900, and via my bedside rig to either TH-900 or SR-009.. And I'm not talking some minute differences - it was very, blandly obvious.

I saw here a few comparisons with the TH-900 saying they're quite close (which is why I decided to give them a whirl, thinking of using Z7 during travel), but to me Z7 sounded nothing even close to TH-900. Is it just luck (maybe bad sample), or some other reason?

Technically, the TH900 and even the TH600 is superior to the Z7, as I used to own the TH600.
The only thing that I don't like with the Fostex is the V-shaped sound signature, making it very excellent with some genres like EDM, dubstep, etc but sound lacking on some, like vocals or accoustic, hence my main reason why I sold the 600.
The bass and treble on the Fostex are way above the Z7, with the soundstaging the best that I've heard among full sized closed-back cans like LCD-XC, Alpha Prime/Dog, Z7, Momentum, etc.

Eventhough the Z7 is very easy to drive, they do sound better with desktop set-up, so I do feel that your observation is warranted as they even sound congested when driven using Sony's own PHA-3 balanced portable amp.
If you are used to the Fostex SQ that some users called as "recessed mids", I think you'll be better of with the Fostex.

 

[Mickice]

Balanced is 2x 3.5mm

 

[RandomHajile]

Even Sony own Kimber Kables were unshielded. I don't think they care too much about noise at all.

Erm... I think you probably need to google kimber kable

I understand the 'confusion' over "balanced headphones"

When they don't have the inverted signal like pro audio xlr equipment does have

Even consumer equipment such as Sonys SCD1 didn't really have a true balanced output in their XLR sockets

Anyways my point was that yes these so called "balanced headphones" only really have the same connection as a stereo amp to stereo speakers have.

As in seperate + and - connections

And better separation as there is no common ground (it's now discreet)

As headphones don't normally have long cable runs, I don't think they ever really needed a true balanced mode/connection to work.

Just like how speakers only need a + and - to work just fine.

 

[dL.]

The Z7 with Kimber cable connecting to the Woo Audio WA7 + TP is simply a dream. It is absolutely my favourite setup at the moment, but that's because I haven't heard of every headphones out there.

One of the scary fact is that I don't see the reason why I should keep the HD700 anymore. In fact, most Sennheisers sound unengaging to me for some reason. It sounds very thin from the mid bass all the way down. Sure, it has the punch when a song asks for it, but it's still too thin. The headphone might be "technically" better and more balanced, but it's lacking in engagement and musicality compared to the Z7. The only thing the HD700 does better is soundstage (because it's open), clarity & imaging, and maybe the trebles (debatable imo). I hope I'm wrong. Again, this is IMO and your perspective might be different.

The Z7 with Kimber has no recessed mids, no recessed trebles. I feel like every single spectrum is presented beautifully, providing an engaging and musical experience. YMMV and I think you really need a good desktop amp to truly appreciate. Dare I say, I think the Z7 is more balanced than the HD700 to my ears because every spectrum can provide the depth and immersion if the song asks for it. The bass on the Z7 is near perfect to me. It has the punch, the depth, yet it's not too overpowering like the Fostex TH-600 that I've heard. The HD700 only provides it in the mids and above. The only thing that I wish the Z7 can improve upon is clarity and soundstage, pretty much what the HD700 excels in.

If indeed a neutral and technically-balanced headphone sounds closer to a HD700 than the Z7, then perhaps I should be looking for the opposite to achieve my definition of "musical" engagement. Perhaps I prefer dark.

Should I keep or sell my HD700? Or better yet, is there a better alternative to the Z7+Kimber signature that I really love?

Keep in mind, I have been talking about Z7+Kimber. Without Kimber, I would've returned the headphone already.

dL

 

[Sonic Defender]

The HD700 gets no love as many feel it is a odd sound signature, and not what Sennheiser was hoping for. I notice many 700s for sale now at pretty low prices. I saw at least 5 in the sale forum now. Shame, at one point I was quite interested in them, but the reviews were really not that favourable I thought. It s all subjective so in the end it is what you like that matters.

 

[CDPlayer]

Technically, the TH900 and even the TH600 is superior to the Z7, as I used to own the TH600.
The only thing that I don't like with the Fostex is the V-shaped sound signature, making it very excellent with some genres like EDM, dubstep, etc but sound lacking on some, like vocals or accoustic, hence my main reason why I sold the 600.
The bass and treble on the Fostex are way above the Z7, with the soundstaging the best that I've heard among full sized closed-back cans like LCD-XC, Alpha Prime/Dog, Z7, Momentum, etc.

Eventhough the Z7 is very easy to drive, they do sound better with desktop set-up, so I do feel that your observation is warranted as they even sound congested when driven using Sony's own PHA-3 balanced portable amp.
If you are used to the Fostex SQ that some users called as "recessed mids", I think you'll be better of with the Fostex.

 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
 
Interesting note about the need for desktop setup; I was hoping for exactly the opposite. To my ears, TH-900 works scary well straight out of iPhone, and I'm also not too sure about the "recessed mids" sentiment, since when pitted against SR-009/KGSSHV with the same upstream (DAC/source) the only major difference to me is in bass. Shame about Z7. Oh, well.

 

[rhull1973]

Not to bring up an old discussion, but the Kimber Kable's make a huge difference with these headphones. Bass is tightened, soundstage gets even better and detail is improved. Honestly, I've owned a lot of headphones and can't say I've ever found a better package than the mdr-z7's with the pha-3 and kimber balanced cable.