[Beginner008]

  Sony U.S. store have been out of Kimber "balanced" cable for some time with no ETA. 
 
What are you guys saying about the Z7 isn't wired for balanced?  Are we talking with even with the "balanced" cable from Kimber?  

"Balanced" in pro audio world - 2 signal paths + ground in each channel to eliminate noise.
 
"Balanced" in headphone world is using the hot and cold signal paths only to increase potential different and increase channel separation! (I do not quite believed if this really made thing sound better!)

 

[TokenGesture]

I'm in the UK so where do I go to buy the Kimber?

 

[purk]

  I don't believe in cables, and yes I doubt claims about differences in favour of the expensive cable, but I will never go as far to call cable 'believers' liars or anything in that order.
Yes I'll stick with my stock cables and maybe in the future will get some impedance adapters, I suspect those will have more effect than a new source or amp, not sure though...
Just curious, do the Kimber Kables have a different impedance than the stock ones?

If you are good with DIY, just try to build your own cable and avoid all the crazy markups.  Use high purity silver wires and the difference is easy to hear from the stock Z7 cable IMO.  Sony often use very thin gauge wires on their headphones and the Z7 is no exception.  I have several friends who have tried my silver cable, and they all like it better than the stock Z7 cable.  Even though I believe in a cable upgrade, I refuse to buy into really high price cable.  After some price point, the difference from one cable to another is more or less "flavor" than anything else and it is more about "system matching".  Last night I was browsing CIEM thread and nearly jumped off my seat after seeing a $800 cable for the JH Roxanne upgrade.  Improvements are also easier to hear on a really transparent system.      

 

[Bill-P]

Yeah... if you'd seen the inside of the Z7, then you'd understand what Purk is talking about. Super duper thin and flimsy wire. I'm still stumped by that, and I'm not even sure whether it is possible to solder thicker silver wires for the internal wiring to remove that bottleneck... (because I know just that part alone will bring about some glorious results) but without damaging the housing in the process because they left just barely enough room for the thin wire.
 
Thin wire -> can't conduct enough current -> not enough power deliverance at greater excursions (higher volume, or low frequencies... bass) -> boomy, loose, lack of control/tightness, etc... (hey, is it just a coincidence that this is what Kimber Kable owners are reporting?)
 
That's why I do half believe that the Kimber Kable can deliver better performance than the stock thin and flimsy cables. The other half is basically because it's copper versus stock cable which is silver plated copper, but... if the stock cable is really as thin as the wires I saw inside, then not even pure silver can help it sound as good as the thicker Kimber Kable. And yet still, the internal wiring is a bottleneck. (this is partially why I asked you to return the headphone to me for further tweaking, Purk. 

)
 
Bottom line: I'd believe the Kimber Kable to make a difference simply because I have seen how bad the cabling inside the Z7 is. But... well, for those of you who don't believe better current deliverance is important for the Z7, I'd say... you may be equally right, and perhaps you'd be happy with the stock cable.
 
For me, stock cable is too long, a bit too stiff, and the plug is massive for portable use, so... I rigged something less long and less obtrusive for true portable use. Does it make a difference?
 
Well, my pair is already modded to sound almost completely different from stock anyway, so... who knows. 

 

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

 
Super thin indeed...

 

[chowmein83]

 
Now Mink, play nice! While I mostly agree that the chance of cables making a significant difference is unlikely I still have some doubt so I'll stay on the fence for now. My inclination is that modest, but audible improvements are possible but I need to test this myself to be sure, and testing is difficult.

 
After all this talk about sound differences between the cables, I thought I should chime in.
 
I don't personally own the Z7 myself, but I spent about an hour in a quiet environment at CES last month, where I was able to demo the Z7 hooked up to the PHA-3 using both the stock single-ended cable and the balanced Kimber cables. I personally thought, using the quoted words above, that there was a "modest, but audible improvement." With the Kimber cables, the highs seem to get a bit clearer, maybe the mids were a bit more emphasized. But I though the biggest difference came from the bass - it definitely became more well-controlled and didn't bleed into the mids as much. However, I wouldn't say it radically changed the Z7's sound.
 
This is just what I heard though.

 

[Bill-P]

Well, what you heard correlates pretty well with theoretical science. 

 
 
It's that some people want it to be "measurable", and they just don't want "I think". They want pure, hard numbers, which... IMO, is quite hard given that the difference may have significant figures so low that we probably won't be able to measure it for cheap. And anyone who has the means to actually measure the difference would likely has better things to do anyway, like... quantifying the differences between different instances and different runs of particle collisions...
 
I mean... not to say it's rocket science, but this is purely material science, and to a certain extent, quantum electrodynamic (to deal with why a thicker/fatter wire allows for more current than a thinner wire).
 
There's just this huge discrepancy between theoretical and practical sciences... where practical typically lacks the right equipments with the precision to quantify certain things, and so we just keep going back and forth on this.
 
As it is, I'd just say... disbelieve if you haven't heard it, or believe if you have, and just let it be. I don't think there's any convincing otherwise at this point since we lack data for both sides.
 
That aside, though, I'd gotten some tips on something interesting, so... whenever anyone relays their thoughts of the Z7, can you please also include your serial #? I'd very much appreciate that. 

 

[Robert777]

I'm in the UK so where do I go to buy the Kimber?

If you have the PHA-3 you can get this cable and you may have to pay 25% import as it is from Japan.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Sony-Headphone-Cable-MUC-B20BL1-for-MDR-Z7-from-Japan-EMS-Free-Shipping-/261767809710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf293caae
 
There is this option which terminates with a 3.5mm plug. This may also incur import.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-Headphone-Cable-MUC-B12SM1-For-MDR-Z7-Replacement-Custom-Genuine-Original-/291382482150?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d7bfd4e6
 
I just purchased this cable to use my new MDR-Z7 with my desktop amp. Terminates with a 6.3mm plug.
It was more than I wanted to spend but the headphone was a lot less than others I was considering so I decided to give it a try.
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOACS-45028
 
Another option I was considering was this. This cable looks beautiful and would not incur import charges. In the end I decided to go with the kimber as it was specifically designed to go with the MDR-Z7.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ultimate-Pure-Solid-Silver-99-999-DENON-D600-D7100-upgrade-cable-by-Lavricables-/181385820278?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a3b6ff876
 
I hope this helps.

 

[Demibeard]

Thank you Robert777, I like the look of the silver cable.
 
I see in your avatar, you've bought from Forward Audio Works, did you not consider one of their replacement cables? I'm rather tempted by their Clair Hybrid offer.

 

[SptTablo]

Hello
What is a good portable headphone amp/dac to use this headphone with iPhone 6 plus?
Or maybe separate DAP to use with this headphone?
Thanks.

 

[Robert777]

Hello
What is a good portable headphone amp/dac to use this headphone with iPhone 6 plus?
Or maybe separate DAP to use with this headphone?
Thanks.

I use the Cayin C5 amplifier with the HRT Microstreamer and the combination is excellent.
I believe you need a lot of power to get these 70mm drivers to really shine and the Cayin C5 or Fiio E12 are the most powerful portable amps on the market other than the Ifi Micro iDSD but that is four times the price. I am actually considering the iDSD for home use but I would not spend that much on a portable amp because the battery has a built in expiry date. 100 charge cycles and it's toast. You may not need the Microstreamer as the DAC in the iPhone 6 is most likely a lot better than the one in my Android phone but for me it clears up the digital signal exponentially.

 

[Robert777]

  Thank you Robert777, I like the look of the silver cable.
 
I see in your avatar, you've bought from Forward Audio Works, did you not consider one of their replacement cables? I'm rather tempted by their Clair Hybrid offer.

I did consider Forza Audioworks and they are such a great company that I certainly hope to order from them again soon. I have got my eye on the Hifiman HE-6 which I would purchase a Noir cable for. The main reason I did not use Forza to produce an upgrade cable for the MDR-Z7 was because I had to hear the Kimber cable. I am worried that it is massively overpriced and, as it is not available in the UK (damn you Sony UK), I will most likely have to pay import charges, but I figured the cable has been specifically manufactured to pair with the MDR-Z7s so it has to be worth a try.
As Forza does not list the Sony or Denon headphones on its connectors list I would also have had to contact Matthew to ask if he can make a cable for these headphones. I am sure he would have said yes but I know they are very busy so I decided against it.

 

[Prophet293]

 
Now Mink, play nice! While I mostly agree that the chance of cables making a significant difference is unlikely I still have some doubt so I'll stay on the fence for now. My inclination is that modest, but audible improvements are possible but I need to test this myself to be sure, and testing is difficult.

 
a colleague of mine told me that he placed bricks underneath his SACD player and it made the music sound more dynamic, a little part of me died inside right that moment...

 

[Mink]

  Yeah... if you'd seen the inside of the Z7, then you'd understand what Purk is talking about. Super duper thin and flimsy wire. I'm still stumped by that, and I'm not even sure whether it is possible to solder thicker silver wires for the internal wiring to remove that bottleneck... (because I know just that part alone will bring about some glorious results) but without damaging the housing in the process because they left just barely enough room for the thin wire.
 
Thin wire -> can't conduct enough current -> not enough power deliverance at greater excursions (higher volume, or low frequencies... bass) -> boomy, loose, lack of control/tightness, etc... (hey, is it just a coincidence that this is what Kimber Kable owners are reporting?)
 
That's why I do half believe that the Kimber Kable can deliver better performance than the stock thin and flimsy cables. The other half is basically because it's copper versus stock cable which is silver plated copper, but... if the stock cable is really as thin as the wires I saw inside, then not even pure silver can help it sound as good as the thicker Kimber Kable. And yet still, the internal wiring is a bottleneck. (this is partially why I asked you to return the headphone to me for further tweaking, Purk. 

)
 
Bottom line: I'd believe the Kimber Kable to make a difference simply because I have seen how bad the cabling inside the Z7 is. But... well, for those of you who don't believe better current deliverance is important for the Z7, I'd say... you may be equally right, and perhaps you'd be happy with the stock cable.
 
For me, stock cable is too long, a bit too stiff, and the plug is massive for portable use, so... I rigged something less long and less obtrusive for true portable use. Does it make a difference?
 
Well, my pair is already modded to sound almost completely different from stock anyway, so... who knows. 

 

These aren't speakers and don't need as much current. I really don't think wire thickness is an issue.
And I seriously don't find the bass uncontrolled at all.
Maybe the plug of the Kimbers alter the impedance? You may get the same result using an impedance apapter?
What I do know is that the simple opamp of my Marantz PM7200's headphones-out does a wonderful job of driving them. The Sony's play very loud with very little volume, so maybe the impedance and sensitivity of both Z7s and the headphones-out are a good match? 

 

[TokenGesture]

Thanks @Robert777