[superuser1]

And my phone to ZX300 absolutely almost no difference.

Wow really almost no difference.. are we talking about balanced or SE?

 

[candlejack]

[...] for me difference between DAPs is much more apparent than difference between 128kbps mp3 and DSD.

Do you really mean this?

Most of the time, I trust people who claim to hear difference between different setups, but I never trust their preference, because its mostly determined by their prejudice.

Does this statement also apply to you?

 

[candlejack]

Wow really almost no difference.. are we talking about balanced or SE?

Can't speak for @dazzerfong, but between the ZX300 Bal and the Galaxy S8 with UAPP the differences are not significant. Basically, if I had to go back to using the phone, sound quality is probably the last thing I'd miss.

 

[dazzerfong]

Wow really almost no difference.. are we talking about balanced or SE?

Both. I use the 4.4mm normally as it's much more rigid than the 3.5mm. Also, so people can't steal my headphones in the office.

That being said, the BAL output is considerably louder than the SE output, so if I use my MDR-Z7M2, I always use the BAL regardless of setting.

Have to remember: I'm using very different equipment from you. My A12t is specifically designed to have a flat impedance and phase curve, so minimal funny business there. And the M9s and Z7M2s both have more than enough impedance to not mess with the output impedance.

Well, if difference between phone and zx300 is minimal then we clearly care about sound nuances very differently from each other. Almost every device I have heard renders the soundstage very differently (positioning, size of the image, depth illusion) and I really struggle to imagine how would people not care about source, for me difference between DAPs is much more apparent than difference between 128kbps mp3 and DSD.

And the problem with cables is that although they do sound different, it does not mean that some sound better than other, everything affects the sound for some reason and whenever people hear the difference they immediately assume expensive sounds better. Most of the time, I trust people who claim to hear difference between different setups, but I never trust their preference, because its mostly determined by their prejudice.

Yeah, funny how almost everything disappears if they're blind to it..............

I care about source: just not on the fact that it enhances the soundstage of my IEMs. All the bonus stuff are features that I was really after: I bought a ZX300 knowing full well it doesn't sound better than my phone, and I bought an RME ADI-2 DAC knowing full well it doesn't sound better than my O2/ODAC combo. Hell, the thought that go me to buy the ZX300 was 'damn, this M9 came with a balanced cable. Sure would be nice to get a player to go with it.........'

Note that I'm talking about using zero EQ and audio 'enhancements': pretty much as stock as possible for comparisons. If you're saying the ZX300's EQ and enhancements rock your boat and make it all sound better, hey more power to you: definitely not gonna question that in the slightest.

The only thing I can reliably tell about blind are headphones, hissing (probably the worst one, and the reason I absolutely resent a lot of DAPs) and really distorted NOS tubes/R2R DACs. Like purposely distorted to give it 'euphonics'.

The problem about cables is that they cost literally more than the IEM itself. If your IEM is so flawed that you need $3k to 'fix' it, why not get another IEM? Why buy into the whole 'this changed my IEM completely' when literally changing your IEM out is a sure win?

Now, if we're talking about headphones, pretty much all this goes out of the window. I tried powering my HD700 off the ZX300 single-ended: boy that did not go well..............

I have a feeling I'm gonna get a loooot of accusations in the future that I'm deaf or something........

 

[shady1991]

Do you really mean this?

Yes and no. Quality wise of course the file type matters much more, but different daps have different characteristics (mostly soundstage/imagine) which completely changes listening experience. So I did not mean that I would rather listen to 128mp3 on a good DAP compared to DSD on a lesser DAP, I just wanted to make a statement that difference is more noticable.

Does this statement also apply to you?

Hell yeah it does. I never know what sound I prefer, I have been guilty of liking technically inferior sound in many ocasions. When I compare dx160 to zx300 one day I think one is clearly better the other day its the opposite, it also varries from track to track. When I bought dx160 I was sure it was better than zx300 because I wanted to justify my new purchase so all the differences that I heard, I convinced myself were improvements, but when honeymoon period was over, I was not sure anymore. Anyway, the bottom line is most of the time there is no better sound, there are different sounds, and it is easy for us to get tricked by our own desire of one being better.

 

[Mindstorms]

ñ

Can't speak for @dazzerfong, but between the ZX300 Bal and the Galaxy S8 with UAPP the differences are not significant. Basically, if I had to go back to using the phone, sound quality is probably the last thing I'd miss.

I dont get this you saying your phone sq its silimar to zx300?

 

[candlejack]

I dont get this you saying your phone sq its silimar to zx300?

Yes. But I haven't tested them head to head properly. Was planning to, but couldn't find a decent (and not overpriced) 4.4 to 3.5 adapter.

 

[Mindstorms]

mm thats weird my zx100 over SE beats the hell out of many phones,and its not even close of what i expect from a zx300, specially in the sound quality and hiss department also staging i wonder do you guys equalize or allways direct mode?

 

[Queen6]

mm thats weird my zx100 over SE beats the hell out of many phones,and its not even close of what i expect from a zx300, specially in the sound quality and hiss department also staging i wonder do you guys equalize or allways direct mode?

My ZX300 beats all my phones and I have an EarStudio ES100, EQ & DSP I flip according to taste and mood. Hiss is only prevalent to me at very elevated volume levels that I would never listen too normally as I predominantly use IEM's. ZX300 is a great DAP as it's small, feature rich and has great battery life. Admittedly I do prefer my WM1A, yet understand the trade off's for the significant increase in size.

Q-6

 

[candlejack]

mm thats weird my zx100 over SE beats the hell out of many phones,and its not even close of what i expect from a zx300, specially in the sound quality and hiss department also staging i wonder do you guys equalize or allways direct mode?

Let me put it this way. With the UAPP app I never found my Galaxy S8 lacking (powering the Andromeda). When I blind tested it against the iDSD Micro BL, I couldn't decide a winner (or even identify them properly). Did not repeat the experiment with the ZX300, but I don't remember changing to the ZX300 and thinking OMG, I can hear so much more now!

 

[Mindstorms]

how about staging and sound thickness? many people say there is no diference between DAPs and Phones i cna tell you I hear the diferences they are profund but thats me! even between zx100 and phone.. is a statement that many people do

 

[candlejack]

how about staging and sound thickness? many people say there is no diference between DAPs and Phones i cna tell you I hear the diferences they are profund but thats me! even between zx100 and phone.. is a statement that many people do

I'm not telling you that the difference you are hearing is not real, I'm just sharing my own experience.

If you've never played this game, ask someone to help you blind test different players. The result might be exactly what you expect or you might be completely amazed.

 

[Queen6]

how about staging and sound thickness? many people say there is no diference between DAPs and Phones i cna tell you I hear the diferences they are profund but thats me! even between zx100 and phone.. is a statement that many people do

Personally I can hear the difference in region changes with WM1A & ZX300, let alone the difference between a dedicated DAP and a phone. I don't think that the phones sound bad, however the DAPs to my ear are simply far better, as to choice world abounds and as ever personal ...

Q-6

 

[Whitigir]

Well, there are potent and incompetent people in this world. What do you think about sports ? Yeah, we are all human, but uniquely different from one another. Some people can hear better than others, it could be from “experiences” or it could be from “talents”. But it would be foolish to think that “you can’t hear the different, and so do others”. What boggles my mind is that there would be people who is willing to show their incompetences, and be proud of it
Only one thing I can see is that the Values from Price/performances are perceived differently from one to another. I have a friend who can tell the differences from my system vs his phones, but to him the differences isn’t worth it

 

[candlejack]

Well, there are potent and incompetent people in this world. What do you think about sports ? Yeah, we are all human, but uniquely different from one another. Some people can hear better than others, it could be from “experiences” or it could be from “talents”. But it would be foolish to think that “you can’t hear the different, and so do others”. What boggles my mind is that there would be people who is willing to show their incompetences, and be proud of it
Only one thing I can see is that the Values from Price/performances are perceived differently from one to another. I have a friend who can tell the differences from my system vs his phones, but to him the differences isn’t worth it

Well, you seem pretty proud about showing your incompetence when it comes to proving (either though measurements or controlled human tests) the benefits of the equipment modifications you encourage people to make.