[Got the Shakes]

So I’m thinking I’m going to take a shot at trying to capture a PRIR tonight whether the user manual is available or not. I think based on the discussion here that this plan could work, but any input would be appreciated. I’d be working with a 5.1 system where the two fronts are actually installed in the walls so they aren’t movable. The center channel is under the tv and the rears are mounted behind the sweet spot at but elevated, again not terribly movable. It is also connected to a Denon receiver that does not have 6 analog inputs. My thought to make this work is this:

Disconnect all of the speakers from the receiver except the front left. Attach the A16 to one of the 2 channel analog ins. Run the sweeps for the front left, disconnect it and then connect the next speaker in its place and run the sweeps for that. Continue until I’ve captured the whole setup one speaker at a time. This would of course be done with me sitting in the middle of the sweet spot. Do you think this will work? Am I overlooking something obvious?

 

[jackhamm]

Just got my email from the Smyth’s
I was Kickstarter Backer #10

 

[Evshrug]

I still find it hard to believe that they do not send it with a manual. I applaud that they have started sending the first units out, but why on earth is the user manual not ready after all this time?
And just in case you wonder if I am the person to say something about manuals, just check this link out to the Pilates manuals I have written: https://www.amazon.com/Reiner-Grootenhuis/e/B014C4C3B8?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1566309751&sr=8-1
The last ones had both +300 pages. So I know it is hard, but it is doable.

As someone who updated over 300 technical manuals for Eaton (formerly Cutler-Hammer) electrical breakers as part of my college internship, I’m not surprised they ditched the paper manual and are going with digital delivery. So much is going to change and evolve over time, and maybe (hopefully) they’ll have someone take a second (or fifth) pass through it and offer readability suggestions.

Maybe the firmware update changed enough to merit them re-writing significant portions. I know I can’t write a whole manual in less than a handful of days.

 

[Fox1977]

Just got my email from the Smyth’s
I was Kickstarter Backer #10

Thank you and @CanMad for letting us know about the address verification email you received.
It shows that things are moving even though not necessarily as fast as we’d like...

 

[sander99]

My thought to make this work is this:

Disconnect all of the speakers from the receiver except the front left. Attach the A16 to one of the 2 channel analog ins. Run the sweeps for the front left, disconnect it and then connect the next speaker in its place and run the sweeps for that. Continue until I’ve captured the whole setup one speaker at a time. This would of course be done with me sitting in the middle of the sweet spot. Do you think this will work? Am I overlooking something obvious?

Does the Denon have roomcorrection/EQ? For a first try better switch off the roomcorrection/EQ. What you should certainly not do of course is measure all the speaker with the roomcorrection/EQ for the left front speaker in place, but probably you thought of that already.

Does the Denon maybe offer features like this:
See and manually change EQ settings?
You could write down the current settings of the left front. And when you change to another speaker (manually) copy the settings from that channel to the left front. And finally re-enter the original settings for the left front.
But do a PRIR without roomcorrection/EQ anyway even if you also do one with. Because maybe that it is even better.

Would be best to organise once we are both clear on the operation and correct way to do measurements e.g. turn room correction off.

You have some insightful thoughts to share about this?

[Edit: actually I had some thoughts myself but I don't know if they are "wise" or not. If a room changes the frequency response, that is caused by interaction of direct sound and reflections and reverberation, that due to frequency dependent phase differences reinforce or attenuate each other in varying amounts. So I was thinking: if you decrease the reverberation time of the PRIR, wouldn't that also decrease the influence of the room on the frequency response? Or maybe most colouration is due to interaction between direct sound and early reflections, and this trick won't work unless you can make the reverberation time so short that you only leave direct sound, which does not sound very pleasant?]

 

[Got the Shakes]

Does the Denon have roomcorrection/EQ? For a first try better switch off the roomcorrection/EQ. What you should certainly not do of course is measure all the speaker with the roomcorrection/EQ for the left front speaker in place, but probably you thought of that already.

Does the Denon maybe offer features like this:
See and manually change EQ settings?
You could write down the current settings of the left front. And when you change to another speaker (manually) copy the settings from that channel to the left front. And finally re-enter the original settings for the left front.
But do a PRIR without roomcorrection/EQ anyway even if you also do one with. Because maybe that it is even better.

You have some insightful thoughts to share about this?

It does have room EQ that I was planning on wiping out before I did the measurements. I’m not actually sure about being able to view the EQ settings or not. It’s a setup for my parents house that I installed for them about 5 years ago. They hardly use it and I’m not even sure they’d miss any of the EQ stuff if I were to set it back to flat.

 

[sander99]

It does have room EQ that I was planning on wiping out before I did the measurements. I’m not actually sure about being able to view the EQ settings or not. It’s a setup for my parents house that I installed for them about 5 years ago. They hardly use it and I’m not even sure they’d miss any of the EQ stuff if I were to set it back to flat.

Isn't there a simple bypass setting so that you don't have to wipe it out? Maybe some 'Source Direct' or 'CD Direct' (use the CD input then) switch that bypasses it?

 

[Ledimies]

Long time lurker, first time poster. It's nice to hear reports from people ahead of the line since the Smyths aren't that good in reporting the situation. I was supposed to be one of the first backers but for some reason I was an hour late to the party back in 2016. I had to wake up in the middle of the night to make sure I got the early bird price. I'm backer #36.

 

[Got the Shakes]

Isn't there a simple bypass setting so that you don't have to wipe it out? Maybe some 'Source Direct' or 'CD Direct' (use the CD input then) switch that bypasses it?

You know what? There probably is actually. Just never had anything hooked up to it besides a cable box and Blu Ray player so never needed to investigate.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I still find it hard to believe that they do not send it with a manual. I applaud that they have started sending the first units out, but why on earth is the user manual not ready after all this time?
And just in case you wonder if I am the person to say something about manuals, just check this link out to the Pilates manuals I have written: https://www.amazon.com/Reiner-Grootenhuis/e/B014C4C3B8?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1566309751&sr=8-1
The last ones had both +300 pages. So I know it is hard, but it is doable.

I wonder if it's even legal to sell without a manual in the EU. Manuals contain safety information boilerplate (the verbiage around not taking off the cover so as to avoid lethal electic shocks, etc), also things like the California warning that some of the stuff inside may cause cancer as well. Don't think it's legal to sell without that information. Perhaps that's influencing where they're sending the first units minus manuals. Also, if technical writing support is required manuals could cost money.

Another thing I noticed as well when I asked for a quote is that they wanted the money wired directly to their bank. Doesn't seems like they're taking Paypal anymore. This imposes another layer of risk on any customers, inasmuch as they will not have the Paypal buyer protection for non delivery.

 

[Got the Shakes]

I wonder if it's even legal to sell without a manual in the EU. Manuals contain safety information boilerplate (the verbiage around not taking off the cover so as to avoid lethal electic shocks, etc), also things like the California warning that some of the stuff inside may cause cancer as well. Don't think it's legal to sell without that information. Perhaps that's influencing where they're sending the first units minus manuals.

Didn’t someone on here from Germany pay full price and get their unit yesterday? If that’s the case they don’t seem to care about violating EU consumer law.

 

[Dixter]

here's a suggestion... maybe the A8 manual will give you some help... the A16 can't be that different .. just more of it... https://smyth-research.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/A8manual_08_2011.pdf

The A16 manual was ready to be placed on the site but the firmware update caused a few screens to change on the A16 so they are adding the changes and will then upload it...

 

[NigelJ]

I was actually wondering if a simple cable swap like that would do the trick, but I never risked it with mine. I just bought a plug adapter for it since the power supply itself is supposed to be universal. Would certainly make things a lot easier for plugging and unplugging, but the end of the A8 plug has a fuse in it, so...

All modern domestic UK plugs are required by law to have a fuse, unless designed to use a shaver socket (another exception is that there are still a few legacy installations using round pin plugs without internal fuses, but these have not be used in new domestic installations for at least the last 50 years). It is quite normal for power supplies to have a cable with a fused UK plug and for all other international cables not to have a fuse, so swapping the power supply cable will not be an issue as the power supply will include its own protection.

 

[Sordel]

I wonder if it's even legal to sell without a manual in the EU.

That's the sort of query better kept in your own head. The last thing I want is another delay for compliance.

 

[Dixter]

I have wondered why it seems the Smyths have such an easy time doing the PRIR measurements at the shows/demos and then I watched the video at the BBC meet and watched it to see how they hooked up the A16 and what equipment as I might get a better idea how they do this and wrap my head around the process a little better... so they setup Yamaha " Powered " Speakers on stands and plug these speakers right into the back of the A16 ... this way they have a ATMOS setup... let the A16 perform the sweeps to each speaker recording it via the mic's in ears... that gets recorded as the PRIR... that PRIR gets mated to the HPEQ and the preset is now in place... they have a blueray player input via the HDMI and the Demo Vids/music get played back.... so using this method... you only need a single " powered " speaker and you just move the RCA output to get 8 different speaker locations ( moving the speaker ).... sounds easy enough... .