Smyth Research Realiser A16
Dec 2, 2017 at 9:01 AM Post #1,516 of 16,105
That also escapes me in regards to the idea behind using yarra instead of headphones.
The Yarra reduces crosstalk. It does not try to reduce room reflections, and it does not have to. You can reap the benefits of crosstalk reduction even if you have lots of room reflections (unless your room happens to be a tiny closet).
 
Dec 2, 2017 at 12:07 PM Post #1,517 of 16,105
Maybe I missed something about the Yarra but, beamforming from a bunch of speakers does not equate to no bouncing of sound around the walls. So, this xtalk cancellation between ears and listeners is only feasible in an anechoic space unless there also is some filtering to cancel room reflections.

If it does including such room cancellation techniques, this is another bag of hurdle, since the room response above a few hundred Hz is so sensitive to slight movement of listener position. It would require an adaptive filter working in real time, e.g having mics sticking in your ears while using the device. How practical is that...

Maybe is not all or nothing (full scale crosstalk cancellation) but how much dBs of crosstalk it can reduce, so the cues stay a level above the threshold in which they would masked by early reflections and reverberation. There is also the directivity of horizontal phased arrays, such that direct sound versus early reflections ratio may be higher than others single small area transducers.

The Bacch processor uses an adaptive filter working in real time, but it measures only once a two channels BRIR in each listening spot during the calibration procedure and the interpolates according to the listeners head movement tracked by a camera:

Multiple 3D Audio Sweet Spots

By combining the phased array (aka Digital Sound Projector™) technology of Cambridge Mechatronics Ltd. (CML) with Princeton's BACCH™ 3D Sound technology, researchers at the 3D3A Lab were able to produce multiple sweet spots, where multiple listeners can sit and experience the same accurate 3D sound image.

CML's phased array speakers (aka Digital Sound Projectors™) can form sound beams and direct them to the ears of multiple listeners. The stereo signal for each pair of sound beams is digitally processed in real time using Princeton's BACCH™ Filters to produce an independent 3D audio sweet spot for each listener. The first demostration was for two sweet spots and was achieved on January 25th, 2011 at the 3D3A Lab.

Since the beams are directed at the listeners, there is minimal interaction with the walls of the listening room and hence minimal degradation of crosstalk cacncellation levels from those achieved in anechoic environments.

IDK if its performance is as satisfactory as the sound proven Smyth Research Realiser though.

Headphones are the way to go with this virtualisation.

x2.

The yarra does not appeal to me because it comes with a subwoofer and it does not minimize the issues with bass and back wall reflections in my listening room.

On the other hand, transauralization/binauralization with headphones seems to be the path to achieve the minimum “distortion” possible, since I am interested in the reproduction of real recorded events (rather acoustic venues or open air) and not in binaural synthesis:

C) Record with Ambisonics.
(...)
If ambisonics spherical harmonics decoding already solves acoustic crosstalk at at low and medium frequencies, then the only potential negative variables would be the number of channels for high frequencies and the listening room early reflections. That would be in fact an advantage of convolving a high density/resolution HRTF (when you can decode to an arbitrary higher number of playback channels) instead of interpolated BRIR/HRIR (of sixteen discreet virtual sources for instance), when binauralizing ambisonics over headphones.

That is one of the reasons why this path may benefit from easier ways to acquire high density/resolution HRTF such as capturing biometrics and searching for close enough HRTF in databases:
(...)

That said, I still see the vast majority of consumers opting for not wearing headphones.
 
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Dec 3, 2017 at 1:21 PM Post #1,519 of 16,105
Hi, I will preorder the realiser a16 soon, do you guys think that the HD600, the HD650 or the new HD660s will be enough for the realiser? thanks! (I have no money for the HD800).

Yes I do, but it's like planning any improvement to the audio chain: learn how to use the Realiser and then decide whether to your ears the 650s sound like a bottleneck. I've been looking at Sennheiser 'phones myself but it's more fun to tweak than just to throw money at the problem at the get-go.
 
Dec 3, 2017 at 2:35 PM Post #1,520 of 16,105
Yeah, I know what you mean, the problem is I have to get a new headphone for the meanwhile, I can't use my speakers right now and it will be nice to get a pair of headphones that will work well with the realiser. But of course, the realiser is not even released, so my question is kinda dumb...
 
Dec 3, 2017 at 3:33 PM Post #1,521 of 16,105
I have a AKG Q701. I will listen mostly to movies and TV series on the A16, rarely music. It's no HD800 but it has quite a wide soundstage, so at least at the beginning i'll be using that one, and later i'll consider an upgrade if it can bring a big difference on movies. Does anyone hear have an opinion about using the AKG Q701 with the A16 ?
 
Dec 5, 2017 at 6:21 AM Post #1,522 of 16,105
Hi, I will preorder the realiser a16 soon, do you guys think that the HD600, the HD650 or the new HD660s will be enough for the realiser? thanks! (I have no money for the HD800).
I have the HD600 and expect them to be excellent for the Realiser. At the time I was intensively studying HP reviews (8-9 months ago) all of the reviewed headphones including HD800 were reported to have some serious flaws. All except the HD600. Their only non superlative property was 'not very wide soundstage'. I asked myself - why should I need VERY wide soundstage? And bought them.
 
Dec 5, 2017 at 6:45 AM Post #1,523 of 16,105
I have the HD600 and expect them to be excellent for the Realiser. At the time I was intensively studying HP reviews (8-9 months ago) all of the reviewed headphones including HD800 were reported to have some serious flaws. All except the HD600. Their only non superlative property was 'not very wide soundstage'. I asked myself - why should I need VERY wide soundstage? And bought them.

Diffiicult to know, isn't it? Since the absence of soundstage isn't due to channel bleed, what does it really mean? That the sound subjectively stays inside the cans rather than seeming to hang in the air outside the cans? But that's exactly what we're paying the big bucks for with the Smyth Realiser, so one of two things would seem to be true: either the in-head feature of the 600s works against the Realiser or the Realiser 'corrects' the 600s and makes them perfect. Which eventuality comes to pass I have no idea.

I have a similar problem using closed-back headphones. Closed-back are typically more enclosed and the headphones that Smyth recommends are open-backed. So do the closed-back 'phones work against the Realiser or does it give them the 'transparency' of open-backed? Time (rather more of it than I hoped) will tell.
 
Dec 5, 2017 at 10:06 AM Post #1,524 of 16,105
If you need to get some cans now. You might want to go look at the A-8 thread. I am sure some of those guys tried multiple cans with it and wrote about it. Try searching the thread for the models your interested in to save time. Then again there is nothing wrong with reading the whole thing to get ramped up for your 16.

I have come to find that reviews aren't necessarily an indicator of how a set of phones is going to sound for me. I think differences in your ear shape are a factor with phones on. I was back to backing phones one day and got down to the HD-800, the new version of the HD-800 and the Ethers. I came across a sound in a song that both sets of 800s put about 4" out side of my head. The Ethers put it about 14" out side of my head. That is one of the reasons I picked them. I have never heard a can that can go as deep as the Ether. But on paper most high end cans are flat as a ruler down low, and review after review will tell you the HD800 smokes all on the bottom end and has a sound stage wider than the Grand Canyon. So either people are working their reviews or my ears just hear things differently. I really hope the A-16 can neutralize the difference between open and closed back phones. Being able to go closed back would be a real plus for me.
 
Dec 5, 2017 at 10:41 AM Post #1,525 of 16,105
I really hope the A-16 can neutralize the difference between open and closed back phones. Being able to go closed back would be a real plus for me.
It would be interesting to make a PRIR of a closed headphone (instead of a speaker) and listen to it on an open headphone (using the HPEQ of the open headphone), and vice versa, and compare how close each one can be made to sound like the other.

By the way, I once made a PRIR of a headphone and then listened to it on the same headphone, and I confirmed that it sounded the same as not using any PRIR.
 
Dec 5, 2017 at 4:52 PM Post #1,526 of 16,105
a convincing soundstage comes from multiple cues telling the brain the same thing. what makes a soundstage to crumble is when some cues contradict each others. with headphones the simple lack of head tracking is enough for some people to never experience more than a line of sound between the ears. that is solved by the A16.
for some the signature is just too far off from how our own HRTF impacts sounds in our daily life. the A16 will try to deal with that, and I suspect that placing the little microphones in the ear correctly will be just as if not more important than the headphone used. but both can limit the final result. obviously headphones might end up having 20 or 30dB differences between their signature and what our ears get with the speaker in a given position at a given frequency. can the headphone+amp handle that much of a change? attenuation is child play, but boost is another matter obviously.
I'm guessing that when some EQ goes really crazy, the Smyth family might decide to set up a limit instead. same if a headphone's FR is only made of spikes, the compensation might not bother correcting everything to the last dB(or the result might just suck bad because of way too much EQ and ringing from it).
but something like a hd600 is not a nightmare when it comes signature. it's also very fine when it comes to distortions(only the low end sucks a little but low freqs don't matter for direction cues). so I'm expecting fairly convincing results from such a headphone. the native perception of soundstage is IMO irrelevant for what will be done to the signal. the hd800 is a good candidate because it is light, comfy for most, and measures real good for most variables really. of course high fidelity is always the better option when it comes to making a copy of something so it's a good candidate. but don't think that's because the hd800 feels wider on it's own, it's not going to push a speaker 3 meters further. if it did that, it would be bad simulation ^_^.

what I would stay away from are headphones with stupidly weird frequency responses, and those with really high distortion levels or known ringing issues(as in audible) at some frequencies. for the rest it should be fine most of the time. I believe most headphone purchase decisions will come from actual experience, and from the simple idea that such an expensive device deserves an expensive headphone. I personally don't like that idea because it's the same idea that leads to 500$ cables and "audiophile" fuses for the house. but it's still true that headphones and speakers are usually the weak link in a playback system. so there is nothing wrong with people who wish to improve on it. not only because they do what they like :wink: , but also because it makes sense.
that said, unless there is an obvious and massive problem, I'm going to stick to my hd650. because I can wear it for hours and that's really the only reason I have it. not very hi-fi of me, I know, but that's how I roll most of the time. I like nice and cozy more than I like uber fidelity and glorious numbers. but that's me, it's not a rule and it most certainly doesn't define right from wrong ^_^.
 
Dec 5, 2017 at 6:53 PM Post #1,527 of 16,105
Have a listen to some binaural recordings with different headphones.

The binaural effect negates a lot of the differences between headphones.

Am tipping the HPEQ "normalizing" each individual set will take it even further.

I don't think either will totally negate any inherent strengths or weaknesses in any particular headphone, but the area between both ends will be a lot more comparable.
 
Dec 6, 2017 at 6:35 AM Post #1,529 of 16,105
has anyone heard or have an opinion about metal music on this?
I was thinking of getting a TOTL amp and DAC, but then suddenly this took my interest, headphone will be Focal Utopia.
its purpose is to simulate speakers/room. what music you play on said speakers doesn't concern the A16. now there will probably be some issues when you'll start headbanging with the headphone on your head. :wink:
 

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