[BooUrns]

I have been paying attention to this thread acutely since becoming aware of this SJY model. This verbiage, that you posted above, is actually a direct Copy/Paste from our website ZMFheadphones.com and our Terms of Service. I know this, because I wrote it. The "is making a funky sound, or no sound..." that's my writing voice- not SJY. I am not a Lawyer or Copy Writer so I put in the sweat to figure it out, do my own research, and draft something myself.

I don't know what to say other than this whole thing is exceptionally disheartening. Zach and I work really hard on ZMF and built it from the kitchen table of our apartment years ago while both working and going to school. I remember coming home at the end of the day after I had started my morning in a lecture hall, transitioned to my after school nannying job, and then as I stepped foot in our apartment, I was handed a pile of headphone cables I needed to get braided for the next day's shipments. All that is to say is that I know what it is like to be busy while trying to get your business started. I know what it's like to be tired and to have to sacrifice time with your family and friends. To work while being sick as a dog because the internet and emails don't stop. I know it is hard to start a business and perhaps there is incentive to cut some corners. This is patently plagiarism and there have been a few other examples related to this model/ release, that I won't get into here, where this company and founder have decided to bite from ZMF.

I think there is an odd notion that ZMF is this giant entity now. We are nothing short of an American small business that has worked so hard for every inch of what we do. I am beyond grateful for the success we have had, and I truly love and enjoy seeing innovation in the field. There is space for everyone in the sandbox. There always is, but there is a way to join it with integrity. Stealing the work of others is just not ok.

 

[UberHaxorMarty]

I have been paying attention to this thread acutely since becoming aware of this SJY model. This verbiage, that you posted above, is actually a direct Copy/Paste from our website ZMFheadphones.com and our Terms of Service. I know this, because I wrote it. The "is making a funky sound, or no sound..." that's my writing voice- not SJY. I am not a Lawyer or Copy Writer so I put in the sweat to figure it out, do my own research, and draft something myself.

I don't know what to say other than this whole thing is exceptionally disheartening. Zach and I work really hard on ZMF and built it from the kitchen table of our apartment years ago while both working and going to school. I remember coming home at the end of the day after I had started my morning in a lecture hall, transitioned to my after school nannying job, and then as I stepped foot in our apartment, I was handed a pile of headphone cables I needed to get braided for the next day's shipments. All that is to say is that I know what it is like to be busy while trying to get your business started. I know what it's like to be tired and to have to sacrifice time with your family and friends. To work while being sick as a dog because the internet and emails don't stop. I know it is hard to start a business and perhaps there is incentive to cut some corners. This is patently plagiarism and there have been a few other examples related to this model/ release, that I won't get into here, where this company and founder have decided to bite from ZMF.

I think there is an odd notion that ZMF is this giant entity now. We are nothing short of an American small business that has worked so hard for every inch of what we do. I am beyond grateful for the success we have had, and I truly love and enjoy seeing innovation in the field. There is space for everyone in the sandbox. There always is, but there is a way to join it with integrity. Stealing the work of others is just not ok.

Thank you for posting this and for the work you and Zach do at ZMF. I was giving Jeffrey the benefit of the doubt because he is a young guy, but he has to own up to his mistake and do better going forwards.

In my opinion he needs to write a public apology to ZMF, and talk to someone about how to run a business without infriging on someone elses work.

I don't have an emotional attachment to any of this, but as someone who has also worked long hours at my family small business, I understand the frustration from incidents like these.

I hope a peaceful resolution can be reached so SJY Audio can continue in the future without needing to do unsportsmanlike things. I still believe Jeffrey is very talented so I'd like to see him work this out with ZMF, and put it behind him.

 

[grailnewt]

I have been paying attention to this thread acutely since becoming aware of this SJY model. This verbiage, that you posted above, is actually a direct Copy/Paste from our website ZMFheadphones.com and our Terms of Service. I know this, because I wrote it. The "is making a funky sound, or no sound..." that's my writing voice- not SJY. I am not a Lawyer or Copy Writer so I put in the sweat to figure it out, do my own research, and draft something myself.

I don't know what to say other than this whole thing is exceptionally disheartening. Zach and I work really hard on ZMF and built it from the kitchen table of our apartment years ago while both working and going to school. I remember coming home at the end of the day after I had started my morning in a lecture hall, transitioned to my after school nannying job, and then as I stepped foot in our apartment, I was handed a pile of headphone cables I needed to get braided for the next day's shipments. All that is to say is that I know what it is like to be busy while trying to get your business started. I know what it's like to be tired and to have to sacrifice time with your family and friends. To work while being sick as a dog because the internet and emails don't stop. I know it is hard to start a business and perhaps there is incentive to cut some corners. This is patently plagiarism and there have been a few other examples related to this model/ release, that I won't get into here, where this company and founder have decided to bite from ZMF.

I think there is an odd notion that ZMF is this giant entity now. We are nothing short of an American small business that has worked so hard for every inch of what we do. I am beyond grateful for the success we have had, and I truly love and enjoy seeing innovation in the field. There is space for everyone in the sandbox. There always is, but there is a way to join it with integrity. Stealing the work of others is just not ok.

I didn't write it or anything I just provided what was on the website.....

 

[BooUrns]

I didn't write it or anything I just provided what was on the website.....

Oh yes, I know-- I wasn't stating anything towards you personally. I just read it and realized word by word what had been done. Please do not take anything from my post as anything towards you at all. It was just what I was responding to. I know you were just trying to help someone out with information!

 

[ThEvil0nE]

I have been paying attention to this thread acutely since becoming aware of this SJY model. This verbiage, that you posted above, is actually a direct Copy/Paste from our website ZMFheadphones.com and our Terms of Service. I know this, because I wrote it. The "is making a funky sound, or no sound..." that's my writing voice- not SJY. I am not a Lawyer or Copy Writer so I put in the sweat to figure it out, do my own research, and draft something myself.

I don't know what to say other than this whole thing is exceptionally disheartening. Zach and I work really hard on ZMF and built it from the kitchen table of our apartment years ago while both working and going to school. I remember coming home at the end of the day after I had started my morning in a lecture hall, transitioned to my after school nannying job, and then as I stepped foot in our apartment, I was handed a pile of headphone cables I needed to get braided for the next day's shipments. All that is to say is that I know what it is like to be busy while trying to get your business started. I know what it's like to be tired and to have to sacrifice time with your family and friends. To work while being sick as a dog because the internet and emails don't stop. I know it is hard to start a business and perhaps there is incentive to cut some corners. This is patently plagiarism and there have been a few other examples related to this model/ release, that I won't get into here, where this company and founder have decided to bite from ZMF.

I think there is an odd notion that ZMF is this giant entity now. We are nothing short of an American small business that has worked so hard for every inch of what we do. I am beyond grateful for the success we have had, and I truly love and enjoy seeing innovation in the field. There is space for everyone in the sandbox. There always is, but there is a way to join it with integrity. Stealing the work of others is just not ok.

For the first time in the forums I’m left speechless

As disheartening as it is.. I do applaud your restraint and the class you’ve shown. I can honestly feel disappointment you felt (I’m in Forest Park btw) as I too am a small business owner and have gone through somewhat a similar experience with some products I designed being cloned 1:1

I do hope SJY would address this matter and all issues be resolved.

 

[penmarker]

I applaud your restraint too. I would suggest both of you (SJY+ZMF) contact each other and discuss about this. I remember how when I was younger and building websites I would copy paste long laborious texts after googling for references because it simply didn't register at the time that most of them were unique and not a bunch of people sharing the same general statements/declarations, because due to my inexperience and general stupidity.

My guess is the developer just wanted to push the site out first before customising the boring bits. But by no means do I imply it isn't wrong; they shouldn't have done it. I just wouldn't chalk it up to malice or intent to mislead. I lean more towards carelessness and, well, stupidity (sorry SJY).

 

[Zachik]

I know it is hard to start a business and perhaps there is incentive to cut some corners. This is patently plagiarism and there have been a few other examples related to this model/ release, that I won't get into here, where this company and founder have decided to bite from ZMF.

Over the last 7-8 years or so, I had the honor and the pleasure to get to know Zach and Bevin. I know how hard they have been working to build their great little company from the ground up. Seeing how SJY is shamelessly trying to copy and steal their work and designs is infuriating!
I am going to vote with my wallet, and I hope others would follow suit. People (and companies) need to learn that "crime does not pay".

 

[Philimon]

Reported. Hopefully Head-Fi forces a resolution.

 

[Exekuhtor]

I mean, i don't think it's strictly illegal.
The headphone that was the closest to a ZMF headphone was the Starry Night and the Moonlight. Even then, they were enough differences. A wooden coloured ring with a metal grill is not something i would call a 1:1 copy.
The legal terms are iffy, but i guess this guy had absolutely no clue of bureaucracy and he didn't want to spend time researching that. Maybe understandable, but he should have. So what does he do? He copies a paragraph so he has that covered. Now it's doubly bad that he did that from ZMF which has a unique wording in it and not wrote his own legal agreements. Let's hope that a) this gets resolved and b) he continues to work with coloured wood, because that was the thing that drew me to the Starry Night. I agree that he should probably have developed a more distinct look though...

 

[ThEvil0nE]

Just want to clarify from my last comment, I'm not implying SJY doing a 1:1 copy or close to that regarding the headphones. I'm more concerned on the direct and blatant rip off on ZMF's TOS.

 

[zach915m]

Cross-posting this from my post on the Caldera thread since it seems some of you are unaware of the level of pre-meditation here. I will not get involved further but I would like accurate information to be presented. This is what I posted on Caldera thread when this all blew up because headphones.com decided to offer coverage to SJY, I posted this on Sept 22nd FWIW: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/zmf-caldera-new-planar-magnetic-from-zmf.964836/page-345

I'll briefly address this to clarify my stance, but I'd rather not dwell on it. For my own well-being, it's crucial to focus on my work and stay excited about it, rather than letting negativity affect my mindset.

When I started my journey by modding Fostex t50 headphones, my vision was to create headphones with wooden enclosures that resembled vintage instruments, incorporating elements of vintage architectural metal accents. As ZMF grew, my mission was always to make headphones so uniquely "ZMF" that they didn't require logos or branding – the design itself would be instantly recognizable.

Recently, I've become aware of a company on AliExpress that appears to be producing chassis and cups very similar to what we do, and even copying them. While I’m flattered, I also can’t help but worry that all the work I’ve put in to be able to make these designs through our engineers, machinery, wood hunting and more has been reduced to a singular 2 dimensional thought, rather than a complex journey that took many many years, sacrifices that both Bevin and I have made through long days and nights.
I don’t know exactly what parts from Ali Express are being used by any particular business, but I know that this is playing a large role in this.

Modding and entrepreneurship are fantastic, and I support individuals forging their own path. I have great admiration for creators like Ryan of Modhouse. There's a fine line between "inspired by," "paying homage to," and "replicating," While I can't define this for each of us, we all recognize it when we see it.

Creating with a clear vision and respecting the boundary where inspiration becomes too close to the source is crucial. Regarding SJY, they reached out to me in 2020, stating that their design at the time resembled one of ZMFs and was asking if that was ok. I expressed that it’s be worth a conversation, and if the designs were close that we should make an agreement. Unfortunately, despite my attempts at further communication, SJY's headphones have continued to resemble ZMF's more and more since our initial communication.

I cherish this community and what fellow builders achieve, often starting as I did. I encourage collaboration rather than competition. Building a successful business is incredibly challenging, and I'm always willing to help in any way I can.

I’m so SO excited about I’m doing right now! A giant challenge has always been trying to find the time in the day to get everything done. I have so many talented people in our shop, measurement gear I never thought I’d have, CNC machines and wood tools that I never knew existed years ago, it’s just amazing and I’m so excited about it and to continue learning and working on headphones. Things are going to be really fun moving forward regardless of any of this, and I’m so thankful for that.

 

[Kbeau]

Sure hope SJY addresses this thread..

 

[ThePupil]

Terms of Service are copied all over the world. just my 2 cents. Nobody bats an eye.

 

[eyoon]

Terms of Service are copied all over the world. just my 2 cents. Nobody bats an eye.

True, but I think the difference here is that the person who is plagiarizing the terms of service also happens to be the same person who is completely ripping off the product itself (that the terms of service are for). So, it's just a little more evidence that this isn't a great-minds-think-alike/oops-we-coincidentally-made-a-similar-looking-headphone situation.

 

[Leonarfd]

It's not looking great from Sjy side, and it sucks as the Moonlight provides excellent sound quality and design for the money.