[chengsta]

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So regarding the talk in the last few pages about amps; I am interested to know if the JDS C5 would be a good amp choice for the SE 846?


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My xba 40's (in my avatar pic) are 8 ohms, and I upgraded from a fiio e11 amp to a jds c5 amp not too long ago.  The bass went from great to magical, yet at the same time making the overall sound brighter and clearer.  So with the new shure 846 woofer tech, it should sound pretty damn epic.

 

[AnakChan]

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My xba 40's (in my avatar pic) are 8 ohms, and I upgraded from a fiio e11 amp to a jds c5 amp not too long ago.  The bass went from great to magical, yet at the same time making the overall sound brighter and clearer.  So with the new shure 846 woofer tech, it should sound pretty damn epic.

 
This may not be an amp output impedance issue with the Fiio. The Fiio E11 is at 0.25 ohm already whilst the JDS Labs C5 is 2.2 ohm. Theoretically if your XBA-40s are at 8 ohm (Singapore Sony website says 12 ohm, where did you get 8 ohm?), the E11 is a better match than the C5. So if the C5 sounds more "magical", may be it's user preference or more likely just the way the C5 is implemented; aside from headphone OI.

 

[chengsta]

well, you say 12, and alot of people have also said 12.  But if you look in the xba 40 section of the forums, it turns out that it's just a typo and it's still 8 ohms, same as the xba 4

 

[tomscy2000]

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I would think that Shure has made the overall impedance curve friendlier than the nominal spec may indicate but there's no way to know at this point. I would guess that both the bass and treble ranges may be higher than 9 ohms. Problem is that it still can't be optimum if they are too different as there will still be non-linearities. If not very different and close to the nominal 9 ohm impedance there may be bass roll off with many sources and this has a crossover besides. Will be interesting to see if and how it was addressed.
 
I think that any IEM not designed to work well with at least a 2 ohm output impedance is a bit of a fail. That's not to say these are that as it may be OK but it remains to be seen. Best case is if they would be around 16 ohms in the bass which would allow it to work pretty well with 2-3 ohm sources and cap coupled devices while keeping the recess in the mids to 1 db or under. I just don't understand why we should even need to be discussing this in a ground up design.

Quote:

This may not be an amp output impedance issue with the Fiio. The Fiio E11 is at 0.25 ohm already whilst the JDS Labs C5 is 2.2 ohm. Theoretically if your XBA-40s are at 8 ohm (Singapore Sony website says 12 ohm, where did you get 8 ohm?), the E11 is a better match than the C5. So if the C5 sounds more "magical", may be it's user preference or more likely just the way the C5 is implemented; aside from headphone OI.

 
This is why earphones with BA drivers really should be advertising minimum impedance values (and at what frequency), in addition to the classic "at 1 kHz" specification... the new Sonion driver assemblies are giving manufacturers minimum impedance specs, which is nice; it's now up to manufacturers to wise up and actually report these values so that we can know what sources we can use to power them at the most ideal damping ratios.

 

[chengsta]

Quote:

 
This may not be an amp output impedance issue with the Fiio. The Fiio E11 is at 0.25 ohm already whilst the JDS Labs C5 is 2.2 ohm. Theoretically if your XBA-40s are at 8 ohm (Singapore Sony website says 12 ohm, where did you get 8 ohm?), the E11 is a better match than the C5. So if the C5 sounds more "magical", may be it's user preference or more likely just the way the C5 is implemented; aside from headphone OI.

I totally understand what you're saying.  The xba 40's are dark iems, and the fiio e11's low Z keeps the xba 40 signature close to original.  I do understand also that the C5 is less of a 'fit' electronically, but i prefer that altered and brighter signature much more.
 
edit:  that being said, I stick with my original post in saying that the C5 will make the shure 846's brighter, and give it magical bass.

 

[AnakChan]

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I totally understand what you're saying.  The xba 40's are dark iems, and the fiio e11's low Z keeps the xba 40 signature close to original.  I do understand also that the C5 is less of a 'fit' electronically, but i prefer that altered and brighter signature much more.
 
edit:  that being said, I stick with my original post in saying that the C5 will make the shure 846's brighter, and give it magical bass.

 
Yep. The difficulty in interpretation was the word "magical" - could have a different meaning to different readers. Not too sure if I'd classify the XBA-40's as "dark" but I get the drift of where you're coming from. I have the MH335DW of which initially I found them too bassy and with a device like the Go-DAP X with OI at 10 ohm (custom), it rolled off the bass to something that was more pleasing to my ears. I guess it's this similarity was what you meant by "magical".
 
The brightness part I understand.

 

[chengsta]

 
oh here it is, my version is 8 ohms.  I guess there are 2 versions, strange...
anyway click the picture to get a bigger view.

 

[BobJS]

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I inherently trust anything coming out of Thailand. If we're trusting them to make a large part of the world's condoms, I think a headphone should be of little relative concern.

 
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Goodness, now I know why I have so many kids.

 
Remember, you're not supposed to use them like an IEM

 

[miceblue]

My xba 40's (in my avatar pic) are 8 ohms, and I upgraded from a fiio e11 amp to a jds c5 amp not too long ago.  The bass went from great to magical, yet at the same time making the overall sound brighter and clearer.  So with the new shure 846 woofer tech, it should sound pretty damn epic.

This may not be an amp output impedance issue with the Fiio. The Fiio E11 is at 0.25 ohm already whilst the JDS Labs C5 is 2.2 ohm. Theoretically if your XBA-40s are at 8 ohm (Singapore Sony website says 12 ohm, where did you get 8 ohm?), the E11 is a better match than the C5. So if the C5 sounds more "magical", may be it's user preference or more likely just the way the C5 is implemented; aside from headphone OI.

Dorsn't the damping factor mostly affect the bass region?

Also, aside from the damping factor, you have to consider that you're comparing two very different sounding amps in the first place and the effects of the lower damping factor may not actually play a large role in the sound heard. Don't quote me on that though, I'm just throwing out a possibile reason for the perceived sound.

-------------

I'm using my brother's SE215-CL at the moment. I don't see why the swivel mechanism for the cable would be a problem but any tugging on the cable can definitely translate to some discomfort and the rather stiff cable doesn't help with cable microphonics. When pulling on the cable, the earphones remain in place in my ears so it's good to know that they won't be yanked out, but it's still uncomfortable on the back of my ear (I'm using the "memory" cable).

I have no idea how the SE215 compares to the SE535 in sound, but the upper-most treble does seem quiet, and it might be because of that that the soundstage is pretty congested-sounding. The midrange seems a bit laid-back much like that of the V-MODA M-100, but it sounds smoother to my ears. Also, the noise isolation is simply superb; some music is playing through desktop speakers next to me at a moderate volume level for a quiet room and I can barely hear it (I'm using the foam tips right now, are these the "olive tips"?). For a <$100 USD earphone (with a 20% it was about $80), I would say the SE215 is pretty good-sounding. Now I wonder how the SE846 will do at more than 10 times the price. o.0

 

[h1a8]

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It is a halo item - it will make it easier to sell the 546, 446, 346 and 246 - which will, no doubt, incorporate some of the technology included with the 846. Unfortunately, the amount paid to be able to state proudly that you possess the Top Of The Line Shure product has doubled. Hence the angst pouring out from this thread.

No it wouldn't. Even if it did then not so much. The best policy is to sell the 846 from 600 or less and then lower the prices to the others a little bit. That way much more get bought (upper and lower end) and Shure makes more profit, which is the prime directive.
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I think you would find the majority of people think spending more than $100 on a pair of earphones is foolish.
 
So by your reasoning does that mean companies shouldn't sell any IEM's above $100 because most consider it foolish?

No! It's not foolish to buy at $100 just foolish to sell at a price that doesn't come near maximizing profit. Shure would easily make millions more if they sold for $600 or lower and drop the prices to the other iems. It seems some don't have good business sense these days. It's not like there isn't a lot of competition out there. Be smart. I'm trying to help the company as well as the customers. A win win situation.
 
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Yes and you would know Shure's strategy of releasing the SE846. Perhaps maximizing profit is not the case here. Have you considered that?
Maybe they are release the SE846 as $1k to make the consumers believe they are able to make quality products. Have you thought of this?
Don't think about one direction only.

If maximizing profits is not the case then why do business? What's the point? I thought is was to make the most money possible. That's just common sense.

 

[Mini0510]

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No it wouldn't. Even if it did then not so much. The best policy is to sell the 846 from 600 or less and then lower the prices to the others a little bit. That way much more get bought (upper and lower end) and Shure makes more profit, which is the prime directive.
 
No! It's not foolish to buy at $100 just foolish to sell at a price that doesn't come near maximizing profit. Shure would easily make millions more if they sold for $600 or lower and drop the prices to the other iems. It seems some don't have good business sense these days. It's not like there isn't a lot of competition out there. Be smart. I'm trying to help the company as well as the customers. A win win situation.
 
If maximizing profits is not the case then why do business? What's the point? I thought is was to make the most money possible. That's just common sense.

You don't think "outside the box and you don't read very well." I was talking about SE846 only, not shure as a whole. You honestly think the release of every single product out there is for maximizing profits only? Don't you think there are more reasons that a company would release a new product? Maybe Shure wants to make the consumers believe that Shure is able to make high quality IEMs. They want to make people believe they are just as good as Sennheiser and other companies? Maybe? Have you considered that?
 
And you think you know how all business works. You seem to know the best price for each IEM.  Yeah... and you would know for sure they would make more profit if they price SE846 at $600 and lower the price of everything else. Yes, you would just know for sure...
You are making way too many assumptions. I think you are just blinded by your own opinion and not considering other aspects. We can argue all day, but there seems to be more people against you than with. Perhaps think about why.

 

[goodvibes]

By the time you go about adding shipping costs, to dealers and from manufacture along with dealer markup and the need to pay for accounts payable, R&D, US offices, warranty etc. etc. as part of every product, $600 is likely untenable. Someone has a very shallow idea of costs. For the sake of argument and accounting for real world costs and dealer markup, say they could lower their standard profit margin and sell it for $700 instead of $1000. Does anybody really think that $300 is going to be the largest deterrent once you're in that price range. Enough so that Shure would sell 3 times as many which is close to what it would take. Keep dreaming. It also then starts to bite more strongly into 535 sales. lowering the price of those as well is not the marketing solution. Lets see, we'll drop the 535 $100 and sell twice as many. Nope.
 
People here act like Shure doesn't have projections, bean counters and marketing experts on staff. Products like this tend to be a bit more expensive than they could be because they aren't assured of quantity sales so R&D and overhead runs them up a bit but not $400, maybe 1/2 that but it's warranted. It's actually new mainstream territory so there is risk management involved. The IEM market is pretty hot right now and the Asian Market is really getting into premium goods so I think they'll do great but I doubt they priced with that as an absolute.

 

[truckdriver]

It wasn't hard to figure that the middle digit (in Shure's IEM naming convention) represents the number of drivers in that particular model. The first digit seem to be chronological (up the scale to the flagship). I took a stab (in a previous post) as to why Shure skipped all the way to “8” with this new flagship (instead of 6—the more obvious choice). I previously thought it may be due to a failed design at 6 and 7. Now I'm thinking that both the number “8” (as well as the price of $1000) is due strictly to Sennheiser (and the IE800).
 
A radio talk show host once shared a story (probably folklore) about a guy who started (and took out an ad for) a golfing class charging $150. No one signed up for his class. He was advised to raise the price so he added a zero at the end in the ad (to $1500) and the class filled up.
 
I still can't figure out what (in the world) that last digit (“6”) represents?

 

 

[vwinter]

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Remember, you're not supposed to use them like an IEM

 Haha, the clever response I couldn't think of. Glad you're a part of making this thread awesome.

 

[Mimouille]

62 pages of mostly bitter people saying the se846 are too expensive so they will not buy them or thinking they know better then the management of Shure on how to sell iems. It is like watching a soccer game in a bar and seing the drunkards yelling advice at the players on TV.

Shure conducted research and came out with something new and interesting. They sell it a price they decided is optimal. Buy it or don't.