[MacedonianHero]

I don't think there's a dedicated head-amp around that does what this thing does at the price it does it.  But I've heard some top of the line stuff, even if just briefly, and I can say that there's a lot more between the Lyr and those systems than just price.  They're better.  Even with orthos.
 
I think Lee's comparison with the Isabellina's DAC out to the Lyr vs. the built in headphone out will be an asset to this thread.  We've had a lot of hyping regarding this thing's price and power output, and deservedly so, but we do need to assess it as an amp at the end of the day.
 
I think Grokit was right on the money about that resolution comment, matches what I heard.
 
It's a shame Skylab didn't review this thing, his perspective, given all the gear he's heard, would've been pretty useful.
 
Quote:

I hadn't figured.  I remember not enjoying the LCD2s out of the 6SE as much as I did off the Lyr.  With the HE-500s, I really liked it with both the 6SE and the Lyr.  Maybe a sensitivity thing?  Too many changing variables to count on those impressions though, so I'm lookin' forward to your comparison.
 
Quote:

Now this 6WPC has been sufficiently shouted about 'round here but as olor1n brought up earlier in this thread the Audio-GD C2-SA (now discontinued) put out a nice 6Ws @ 50ohms.  I guess my point is that there are some other head amps out there that put out orthodynamic power.

Operative words in your post.

 

[jamato8]

I have left the 6BZ7 in the Lyr now for a number of days and I have to say the sound is excellent. I also think this has to do with the Lyr breaking in. The sound has gotten more dimensional and open. The small nuances within the music are more obvious an add to the illusion that you are really at the event (live music). The sound is effortless and flows. I have been using the HE-500 for much of the listening but the LCD-2 match up well also with the 500's being a little more transparent. 

 

[zilch0md]

Grokit,
 
Quote:

X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with higher-quality amplification, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't benefit as much from the additional resolution of a WA22.

X3!
 
 
A Dallas area Head-Fi member graciously offered to lend me his already burned-in Schiit Lyr (with the stock tubes) for a few days, along with a some other gear that I haven't played with yet.  I've heard that lending gear is not all that uncommon for this forum, but I have to say, it's a wonderful thing, from my perspective, and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to educate my ears without having to spend any money first!

 

At this writing, I've spent about four hours swapping between my only other amp, a 15V-powered Stepdance and the Schiit Lyr, using only my Sony PCM-M10 as a source and only my LCD-2s at the other end.

 

I know this is going to sound harsh to those who are happy with their Lyrs and I'm particularly concerned about offending the fellow from whom I borrowed the one I have in my possession, but within 15 seconds of the first track I heard through the Lyr, I was already aware of what I'm still convinced after four hours of critical listening:  

 

I would never trade my Stepdance for a Lyr - at least not for use with the Sony PCM-M10 and LCD-2.   

 

Seriously, I'm hearing a huge loss of detail across the entire frequency range, especially in the highs, but also in the mids and bass frequencies.  I would have to describe the sound as "splashy" - it's as if every note is doing a belly flop that splatters all over the neighboring notes. The more complex and detailed the music at any given moment, the more diffuse the sound coming from the Lyr.  This loss of resolution just destroys the imaging and sense of ambiance created by subtle, low-volume echoes and reverb that I've come to take for granted with the Stepdance.   All sense of air and space just gets hammered by a mushiness that accompanies any voice that's louder than its neighbors.  Compared to the Stepdance + LCD-2, the Lyr + LCD-2 pulls the entire sound stage in close to my head, as if I'm listening to a boombox under my bedcovers.   There is a big loss of the sense of space that the Stepdance conveys so nicely - especially with recordings that shine in that regard, like all the most subtle sonics in Cowboy Junkies' "The Trinity Session".  

 

In fact, I feel as if this experience has taught me that there is a very important relationship between the transparency and resolution that an amp can deliver vs. that elusive imaging for which everyone lusts.  I've was never sure that I knew exactly what people were talking about when discussing sound stage and imaging - UNTIL NOW - with the Lyr having taken away that which I was taking for granted.  It's the really low-volume, reverby, echoey stuff that CREATES the sense of space - that defines the sound stage.  When all that low-volume stuff gets smothered into obscurity by the muffling I'm hearing with the Lyr, you're left with a flat, lifeless, wall of sound that's mostly just between your ears.  

 

Consider track 6 from the Matrix Reloaded soundtrack, for example - Team Sleep's "The Passportal":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85QBGCtrMQU

 

The Schiit Lyr is simply INCAPABLE of reproducing this accurately.  The high-intensity electronic "buzzing" that's so crisply delineated with the Stepdance is reduced to nothing but mush by the Lyr.  And when things get really busy - with lots of instruments coming in all at once - the Lyr just smears them all into homologous blobs of sound.  I'm not kidding, the Lyr can't handle this anywhere near as well as the Stepdance does.  I can't imagine the Lyr ever being found pleasing to anyone seriously interested in reproducing classical music, for example.

 

This Lyr is so "woolly" compared to the Stepdance, I'm left wondering if this particular unit is a lemon - or if the tubes are bad - or what?  

 

Are my relatively novice ears actually more discerning than the many satisifed Lyr owners by nature of my having spent just a few months listening to a Stepdance with the LCD-2?  

 

Are all tube amps this bad in terms of resolution?

 

Do any tube amps offer the same resolution and transparency as that had with a Stepdance?

 

Do they cost a fortune?

 

I don't feel as if any of my observations are all that subjective.  To me, this comparison was like ice water down my back - there's nothing subtle about the differences I'm hearing between the Lyr and the Stepdance and so, I suspect that anyone who compares the Lyr to a 15V Stepdance would surely make the same observations.

 

There, I've done it. I'm going to log off now and enjoy a few hours of flame-free existence, before coming back to face the music... 

 

 

Mike

 

 

[jamato8]

Very interesting. Odd, I have compared the Lyr to a number of good portables, and my fi.Q, and I don't hear a loss of detail of highs or smearing of frequencies or problems with complex passages. 

 

[MacedonianHero]

Very interesting. Odd, I have compared the Lyr to a number of good portables, and my fi.Q, and I don't hear a loss of detail of highs or smearing of frequencies or problems with complex passages. 

I agree completely. I'm sorry, but a portable amp will not power an ortho properly....even though it (LCD-2) can sound quite "nice" from portable amps....they need at least 1W to really get their legs under them so to speak....with the Lyr and it's 4 W they are definitely off to the races IMO.

With my D4, D10 (now sold) and RSA Hornet (now sold), the LCD-2s were very good, but far from what I hear with my Concerto, WA2, and Lyr (in reverse order of my preferences).

 

[Jason Stoddard]

Considering your impressions are completely counter to everything we've heard so far, you may want to have your friend contact us and have us check it out. We'd pay shipping both ways to take a look at it and confirm everything's cool. 
 
What tubes is he running? What does he think of it? 
 
Seriously, it sounds like you have a 230V unit plugged into 115V to sound that bad.
 
Quote:

Grokit,
 

X3!
 
 
A Dallas area Head-Fi member graciously offered to lend me his already burned-in Schiit Lyr (with the stock tubes) for a few days, along with a some other gear that I haven't played with yet.  I've heard that lending gear is not all that uncommon for this forum, but I have to say, it's a wonderful thing, from my perspective, and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to educate my ears without having to spend any money first!

 

At this writing, I've spent about four hours swapping between my only other amp, a 15V-powered Stepdance and the Schiit Lyr, using only my Sony PCM-M10 as a source and only my LCD-2s at the other end.

 

I know this is going to sound harsh to those who are happy with their Lyrs and I'm particularly concerned about offending the fellow from whom I borrowed the one I have in my possession, but within 15 seconds of the first track I heard through the Lyr, I was already aware of what I'm still convinced after four hours of critical listening:  

 

I would never trade my Stepdance for a Lyr - at least not for use with the Sony PCM-M10 and LCD-2.   

 

Seriously, I'm hearing a huge loss of detail across the entire frequency range, especially in the highs, but also in the mids and bass frequencies.  I would have to describe the sound as "splashy" - it's as if every note is doing a belly flop that splatters all over the neighboring notes. The more complex and detailed the music at any given moment, the more diffuse the sound coming from the Lyr.  This loss of resolution just destroys the imaging and sense of ambiance created by subtle, low-volume echoes and reverb that I've come to take for granted with the Stepdance.   All sense of air and space just gets hammered by a mushiness that accompanies any voice that's louder than its neighbors.  Compared to the Stepdance + LCD-2, the Lyr + LCD-2 pulls the entire sound stage in close to my head, as if I'm listening to a boombox under my bedcovers.   There is a big loss of the sense of space that the Stepdance conveys so nicely - especially with recordings that shine in that regard, like all the most subtle sonics in Cowboy Junkies' "The Trinity Session".  

 

In fact, I feel as if this experience has taught me that there is a very important relationship between the transparency and resolution that an amp can deliver vs. that elusive imaging for which everyone lusts.  I've was never sure that I knew exactly what people were talking about when discussing sound stage and imaging - UNTIL NOW - with the Lyr having taken away that which I was taking for granted.  It's the really low-volume, reverby, echoey stuff that CREATES the sense of space - that defines the sound stage.  When all that low-volume stuff gets smothered into obscurity by the muffling I'm hearing with the Lyr, you're left with a flat, lifeless, wall of sound that's mostly just between your ears.  

 

Consider track 6 from the Matrix Reloaded soundtrack, for example - Team Sleep's "The Passportal":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85QBGCtrMQU

 

The Schiit Lyr is simply INCAPABLE of reproducing this accurately.  The high-intensity electronic "buzzing" that's so crisply delineated with the Stepdance is reduced to nothing but mush by the Lyr.  And when things get really busy - with lots of instruments coming in all at once - the Lyr just smears them all into homologous blobs of sound.  I'm not kidding, the Lyr can't handle this anywhere near as well as the Stepdance does.  I can't imagine the Lyr ever being found pleasing to anyone seriously interested in reproducing classical music, for example.

 

This Lyr is so "woolly" compared to the Stepdance, I'm left wondering if this particular unit is a lemon - or if the tubes are bad - or what?  

 

Are my relatively novice ears actually more discerning than the many satisifed Lyr owners by nature of my having spent just a few months listening to a Stepdance with the LCD-2?  

 

Are all tube amps this bad in terms of resolution?

 

Do any tube amps offer the same resolution and transparency as that had with a Stepdance?

 

Do they cost a fortune?

 

I don't feel as if any of my observations are all that subjective.  To me, this comparison was like ice water down my back - there's nothing subtle about the differences I'm hearing between the Lyr and the Stepdance and so, I suspect that anyone who compares the Lyr to a 15V Stepdance would surely make the same observations.

 

There, I've done it. I'm going to log off now and enjoy a few hours of flame-free existence, before coming back to face the music... 

 

 

Mike

 

 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 

Are all tube amps this bad in terms of resolution?

 

Do any tube amps offer the same resolution and transparency as that had with a Stepdance?

Oh man, you need to hear a WA5 or something comparable.  It'll chew up your PCM-M10 and spit it out.  

 

 

[DemonicLemming]

Hm, I've got that track playing right now (320kbs rip), and the buzzing is razor-sharp to my ears.  Aphex Twins "Buchephalus Bouncing Ball" is another track I use to test for the same sort of knife-edge sharpness, and it's enough to cut paper with my setup.
 
Quote:

 

Consider track 6 from the Matrix Reloaded soundtrack, for example - Team Sleep's "The Passportal":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85QBGCtrMQU

 

The Schiit Lyr is simply INCAPABLE of reproducing this accurately.  The high-intensity electronic "buzzing" that's so crisply delineated with the Stepdance is reduced to nothing but mush by the Lyr.  And when things get really busy - with lots of instruments coming in all at once - the Lyr just smears them all into homologous blobs of sound.  I'm not kidding, the Lyr can't handle this anywhere near as well as the Stepdance does.  I can't imagine the Lyr ever being found pleasing to anyone seriously interested in reproducing classical music, for example.

 

 

 

[MacedonianHero]

Hm, I've got that track playing right now (320kbs rip), and the buzzing is razor-sharp to my ears.  Aphex Twins "Buchephalus Bouncing Ball" is another track I use to test for the same sort of knife-edge sharpness, and it's enough to cut paper with my setup.
 


 

x2 with both my LCD-2s and uber power hungry HE-6s.

 

[Uchiya]

Ewwww, youtube audio.

 

[jamato8]

Quote:

Quote:

Very interesting. Odd, I have compared the Lyr to a number of good portables, and my fi.Q, and I don't hear a loss of detail of highs or smearing of frequencies or problems with complex passages. 

I agree completely. I'm sorry, but a portable amp will not power an ortho properly....even though it (LCD-2) can sound quite "nice" from portable amps....they need at least 1W to really get their legs under them so to speak....with the Lyr and it's 4 W they are definitely off to the races IMO.

With my D4, D10 (now sold) and RSA Hornet (now sold), the LCD-2s were very good, but far from what I hear with my Concerto, WA2, and Lyr (in reverse order of my preferences).

The fi.Q uses 4 634buf per channel and puts out 24 volts. The 71B has plenty of power in balanced and the PB-2 runs around 30 volts and 2.5 watts per channel. Plenty of power there. Also, in the past, my fi.Q was better than a number of good home amps I compared it to. 
 

 

[zilch0md]

 
Jason,
 
He's using the stock tubes in his Lyr (not your upgrades, nor anything else rolled in).
 
That would be wonderful if you could identify and fix a problem with the Lyr I'm borrowing.  As evidenced in my post, the possibility of such a problem has already crossed my mind.
 
Another possibility is that my source might be supplying too low an input voltage - I don't really know what that voltage is, but I'm using a Sony PCM-M10 Line Out to feed the Lyr.  The interconnect is a black cable with a 1/8th-inch stereo mini plug at one end and two RCA plugs at the other end.  (I don't know if the cable is your product or not, but it's about 36-inches long and is labeled "Monoprice E323003... blah, blah, ...)
 
Please watch for a PM.  
 
Thanks!
 
Mike
 
Quote:

Considering your impressions are completely counter to everything we've heard so far, you may want to have your friend contact us and have us check it out. We'd pay shipping both ways to take a look at it and confirm everything's cool. 
 
What tubes is he running? What does he think of it? 
 
Seriously, it sounds like you have a 230V unit plugged into 115V to sound that bad.
 

 

 

[Jason Stoddard]

PM replied to. We'll get this sorted!
Quote:

 
Jason,
 
He's using the stock tubes in his Lyr (not your upgrades, nor anything else rolled in).
 
That would be wonderful if you could identify and fix a problem with the Lyr I'm borrowing.  As evidenced in my post, the possibility of such a problem has already crossed my mind.
 
Another possibility is that my source might be supplying too low an input voltage - I don't really know what that voltage is, but I'm using a Sony PCM-M10 Line Out to feed the Lyr.  The interconnect is a black cable with a 1/8th-inch stereo mini plug at one end and two RCA plugs at the other end.  (I don't know if the cable is your product or not, but it's about 36-inches long and is labeled "Monoprice E323003... blah, blah, ...)
 
Please watch for a PM.  
 
Thanks!
 
Mike
 


 

 

 

[mayassa]

You have to love Jasons commitment to his products. I'm glad I have my schiit on order.

 

[USAudio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zilch0md /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Another possibility is that my source might be supplying too low an input voltage - I don't really know what that voltage is, but I'm using a Sony PCM-M10 Line Out to feed the Lyr.

I don't think it's likely the input voltage, I regularly run less than 2V into my Lyr with no problems from my Lavry DA11, depending on the material and when I feel like listening at lower volumes.
Looks like Jason is on the case and I'm sure he'll have you up and running soon.