[HK_sends]

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Since I am also an ICU nurse and I do give suppositories at times, though I always like to tell a story with a suppository, maybe for tube aficionados, I could shape them into, you know, a little tube. Just don't ask for a story of a power tube. 

Uhh..no thanks..there's only one type of Schiit that I want to have with my supposi...err...tubes. 

 
Cheers!

-HK sends
 
 

 

[jamato8]

Quote:Originally Posted by HK_sends /img/forum/go_quote.gifUhh..no thanks..there's only one type of Schiit that I want to have with my supposi...err...tubes. 

 Cheers!

-HK sends
 

Your up late in Calif. Got some great Blues going here. Muddy Waters live on Legacy. 
 
edit: with 24 hours or so on the RCA 6BZ7 it is warming up and shaping up to be a very fine sounding tube. I sadly, as I like to swap tubes, have no desire to change these out. All for an investment of around 6 dollars. More like what it should be for tubes. 
 
 

 

[leesure]

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No, that was good.  I'm lookin' for direct comparisons like that.
 
I'll add to that, if meet impressions count for anything, here's a list of amps off the top of my head I find better than the Lyr (off various sources).  The RSA Apache, the WA22, WA5, a modded MAD Ear+ HD, a balanced Isabellina.  And for the record I do find the WA5 over priced, over hyped, but only compared to a WA22.  

  Just meet impressions though (and all with LCD2s).
 
I'm hoping Lee chimes in.  I'd love to hear his thoughts on how the LCD2s sound out of his RWA Isabellina vs. Lyr.  
 
I guess the comparison would only be meaningful if the Isabellina had DAC out.  And then of course, his Isabellina is balanced.

I have a Woo 6SE and heard the WA5 and WA22 under met conditions and my Lyr as 1 day old at the time, so the following comments may be unfair...Compared to the Woo's, the Lyr lacked speed and 'layering'.  It was like the sounds were more homogenized with the Lyr while everything was airier with the Woo's.  The WA22 and the RWA also had better micro-dynamics.  The Lyr had plenty of slam ad macro-dynamics, but the small subtle dynamics...plucking a violin string for example, were better and more complete from the Woo and especially from the RWA.
 
I've since heard the Lyr open up quite a bit and I've recently rolled some tubes in so some of these impressions are evolving.  The RWA we had at the meet was not 100%, as we all noted.  I will be getting my final version in early June and will do a more thorough comparison.  It does have a DAC out so we can be fair. At some point soon, I'll also take the Lyr downstairs and set it up opposite the Woo 6SE from the same source as well so I can give you a more definitive answer on that as well.
 
So for now, I'll still with the 'Big Boyz' having better layering and micro dynamics.  The speed seems less an issue since the Lyr broke in more.  Tonally, I have no issues with the midrange or any other spectrum, especially with the 6BQ7a tubes I've rolled in.

 

[MrScary]

What do those tubes compromise for better mids directly compared against the Valhalla tubes? Serious question, as I may just splurge on those tubes depending on what you say, realistically. I won't believe nothing is compromised.

Im not getting into it anymore with you. I'm just saying buy some tubes dude you have two of the weakest tube sets and you make broad statements if you want good mids buy the Gold Lions or the RCA's the RCA's are like 5.00 compare yourself and see. What does it give up? you go seek

 

[DemonicLemming]

Do you think it's because the E9 has forward mids and the Lyr is neutral, or that the Lyr has slightly recessed mids and the E9 is neutral? 
 
Honestly though, some of the nicer tubes that aren't too expensive neither roll off the treble or muffle the bass to increase the potency of the mids.  The 6DJ8 GE gray glass ($40) and the E88CC Brimar ($50) both do wonderful things to the entire frequency band, and soundstaging, without compromising any aspects to achieve those gains.  The 1970s Russian 6N1P and 6N23P are relatively cheap, and the 6BZ7s are pretty cheap, too; if you don't like the sound signature they impart, you're only out $10, and more than likely someone on here would be interested in buying them from you.  Hell, if you wind up buying some Brimar tubes and don't like them, I'd buy them from you for what you paid, just to have a backup set.
 
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Considering I've plugged in the Lyr with too many different sources to count (even far as taking to friend's houses and plugging it in on their setups), it didn't change what I feel the Lyr lacks. No matter what I plug it into, the E9 still has superior mids. It may be all that's superior, but it's clear to me and anyone else who has heard it. It makes the mids on my D7000 sound balanced with the bass and highs, and even brings them out more on the HE4 (though the HE4 clearly sounds better on the Lyr, mids aside). Yes, I might get some $200 tubes and say the midrange is great now, but then again, that's the strength of the tube now.

The question asked was what do you feel the Lyr lacks. I said midrange. Then it became some elitist drabble about how I don't have good tubes, my sources suck, what else? My headphones? My ears? Lol. This is ridiculous.

It was my opinion. I didn't state it as fact, nor did I try and dispute that you guys thought the mids were fine.

 

 

[sphinxvc]

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...all I seem to read about it is the power.  even the 6 moons review (which was garbage) said nothing but technical stuff and that it had power...

x2
 
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I have a Woo 6SE and heard the WA5 and WA22 under met conditions and my Lyr as 1 day old at the time, so the following comments may be unfair...Compared to the Woo's, the Lyr lacked speed and 'layering'.  It was like the sounds were more homogenized with the Lyr while everything was airier with the Woo's.  The WA22 and the RWA also had better micro-dynamics.  The Lyr had plenty of slam ad macro-dynamics, but the small subtle dynamics...plucking a violin string for example, were better and more complete from the Woo and especially from the RWA.
 
I've since heard the Lyr open up quite a bit and I've recently rolled some tubes in so some of these impressions are evolving.  The RWA we had at the meet was not 100%, as we all noted.  I will be getting my final version in early June and will do a more thorough comparison.  It does have a DAC out so we can be fair. At some point soon, I'll also take the Lyr downstairs and set it up opposite the Woo 6SE from the same source as well so I can give you a more definitive answer on that as well.
 
So for now, I'll still with the 'Big Boyz' having better layering and micro dynamics.  The speed seems less an issue since the Lyr broke in more.  Tonally, I have no issues with the midrange or any other spectrum, especially with the 6BQ7a tubes I've rolled in.

Nice.  I'm looking forward to both comparisons.  For consistency, you could use the HE-500s which do quite well with both those amps, as opposed to the less efficient LCD2s.  That'll even the field some for the 6SE.
 
I too didn't notice anything lacking in the midrange when I tried the Lyr.

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

I have a Woo 6SE and heard the WA5 and WA22 under met conditions and my Lyr as 1 day old at the time, so the following comments may be unfair...Compared to the Woo's, the Lyr lacked speed and 'layering'.  It was like the sounds were more homogenized with the Lyr while everything was airier with the Woo's.  The WA22 and the RWA also had better micro-dynamics.  The Lyr had plenty of slam ad macro-dynamics, but the small subtle dynamics...plucking a violin string for example, were better and more complete from the Woo and especially from the RWA.
 
I've since heard the Lyr open up quite a bit and I've recently rolled some tubes in so some of these impressions are evolving.  The RWA we had at the meet was not 100%, as we all noted.  I will be getting my final version in early June and will do a more thorough comparison.  It does have a DAC out so we can be fair. At some point soon, I'll also take the Lyr downstairs and set it up opposite the Woo 6SE from the same source as well so I can give you a more definitive answer on that as well.
 
So for now, I'll still with the 'Big Boyz' having better layering and micro dynamics.  The speed seems less an issue since the Lyr broke in more.  Tonally, I have no issues with the midrange or any other spectrum, especially with the 6BQ7a tubes I've rolled in.

X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with higher-quality amplification, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't benefit as much from the additional resolution of a WA22.

 

[sphinxvc]

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X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with quality amplification, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't need the resolution of a WA22.

Did the Lyr hold back your HE-6' resolution too?  Totally agree on that resolution comment, but I think it does well all the way up to the 5LE before you start having those bottlenecking / system imbalance problems.  5LEs have a bit more resolution than 650s and 701s but less than all flagships.

 

[grokit]

With the HE-6 the Lyr was lacking in both resolution and dynamics, as the HE-6 likes more juice than the Lyr can deliver. At least with my 2-volt source, from reports that I have read things improve considerably with just a jump to a 2.5 volt source.

 

[ZorgDK]

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With the HE-6 the Lyr was lacking in both resolution and dynamics, as the HE-6 likes more juice than the Lyr can deliver. At least with my 2-volt source, from reports that I have read things improve considerably with just a jump to a 2.5 volt source.

I'm just curious, where do you have the volume knob assuming start position is 7 o'clock? I'm using a soundcard as source, I don't know how many volts it puts out but I have the volume knob at 8-9 o'clock with the HE-6. 10 o'clock is too loud for most recordings. 
 
Edit: My soundcard puts out 2 Vrms (5.65 Vp-p). Does that mean 2 or 5.65 volts? 

 

[USAudio]

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X2, that pretty much mirrors my experience comparing the LCD-2 out of the Lyr and the WA22. This is why I think the best match for the Lyr could be the K701, because the LCD-2 is capable of more resolution so it scales up better with higher-quality amplification, where the K701 likes the slam of the Lyr but doesn't benefit as much from the additional resolution of a WA22.

I always thought the advantage of a hybrid design like the Lyr (and Liquid Fire) is it offers the resolution of a sold-state design with some of the smoothness of a tube design, but you've found the all-tube WA22 to offer more resolution than the hybrid Lyr.  I guess it's the old adage that it comes down to implementation ... eh?
 
Quote:

With the HE-6 the Lyr was lacking in both resolution and dynamics, as the HE-6 likes more juice than the Lyr can deliver. At least with my 2-volt source, from reports that I have read things improve considerably with just a jump to a 2.5 volt source.

Typically I adjust the volume on my system using my source only, keeping the Lyr volume at a fixed point.  My source, the Lavry DA11 with it's excellent digitally controlled analog circuit, will output up to 6Vrms single-ended!  Personally I haven't noticed any difference in resolution and dynamics and I move up the voltage, but that was with the LCD-2's which are much more efficient than the HE-6's.  IMHO, the LCD-2's themselves really respond to higher voltages without ever sounding strained, if you enjoy/tolerate higher (but safe) volumes.
 
Maybe give the DA11 a try, I enjoy being able to adjust the volume using a remote and you can then keep the Lyr's pot at a place in it's range where channel imbalance is minimal.  Depending on where you set the Lyr's volume you could always then keep the source voltage somewhere between your desired 2.5V and 6V RMS.  The DA11's solid state headphone output is excellent as well BTW.
 
FYI - I checked with Jason Stoddard (Lyr designer) awhile back and he said the Lyr can take a lot of input voltage and the DA11's 6Vrms would be no problem!
 

 

[grokit]

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I'm just curious, where do you have the volume knob assuming start position is 7 o'clock? I'm using a soundcard as source, I don't know how many volts it puts out but I have the volume knob at 8-9 o'clock with the HE-6. 10 o'clock is too loud for most recordings. 
 
Edit: My soundcard puts out 2 Vrms (5.65 Vp-p). Does that mean 2 or 5.65 volts? 

It means 2 volts. My experience re volume knob settings on the Lyr exactly mirrors this handy chart provided by 6 Moons:
 



Quote:

I always thought the advantage of a hybrid design like the Lyr (and Liquid Fire) is it offers the resolution of a sold-state design with some of the smoothness of a tube design, but you've found the all-tube WA22 to offer more resolution than the hybrid Lyr.  I guess it's the old adage that it comes down to implementation ... eh?

Yes, my understanding is that sound quality is not based on the design of the amp but the implementation of that design. Even though they are both hybrids the Lyr is not in the same league as the Liquid Fire, which cost 6X as much.

 

[wuwhere]

Quote:

I'm just curious, where do you have the volume knob assuming start position is 7 o'clock? I'm using a soundcard as source, I don't know how many volts it puts out but I have the volume knob at 8-9 o'clock with the HE-6. 10 o'clock is too loud for most recordings. 
 
Edit: My soundcard puts out 2 Vrms (5.65 Vp-p). Does that mean 2 or 5.65 volts? 

Vrms is more accurate because it is the voltage measure of a sinewave. Vp-p is the voltage measure from the positive to the negative, example is the highest positive half of a sinewave is at +2.5, the lowest negative half is at -2.5, the Vp-p is 5v.

 

[USAudio]

Quote:

Yes, my understanding is that sound quality is not based on the design of the amp but the implementation of that design. Even though they are both hybrids the Lyr is not in the same league as the Liquid Fire, which cost 6X as much.

We agreed all the way up to cost.  I've seen audio products (like certain cables) that were way overpriced for what you got.  In the case of the Liquid Fire I believe it is fairly priced with quality components, though you're not getting 6x the sound quaility but that is the law of diminishing returns of audio equipment (and many other things as well).  This is one of the things that I dislike about certain audio review magazines - you will very rarely, if ever, see them say a less-expensive product is better than a more costly product.

 

[jamato8]

Interesting read on the information being retrieved on the Woo amps. I haven't heard a few of those so I can't comment on them. What I do hear with the Lyr is layering, dynamics and detail. On detail, to be honest, I wouldn't want any more in both the micro or macro. I do hear music, breathing of the singers, if recorded, and excellent separation. That is my impression so far. 
 
What I would like are some headphones and amp that sound like at least a good speaker system. Are we there yet? :^)