[Go1982]

Yeah I guess these have a sonic fun feel to them, i listen to music atleast 1.5hrs day, through my entire workout, so if it's doesn't fatigue my ears it's definately a plus.

Doesn't anyone know where I can order the tripple flanged white ear tips for the westone 3. Lost mine, only had them for a couple days .

 

[dj nellie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif The bass of the W3 is very hyped and in fact overpowering, and if you think its bass is just right, then you are definitely a bass head and you would find neutral and accurate bass too light for your preference. Its treble is also significantly recessed--the sparkle and air of instruments like orchestral strings, drum cymbals...etc are quite subdued compared to what a neutral frequency response should sound like. A simple comparison of the W3 with a pair of high-end reference studio monitors in an acoustically treated recording/mastering studio will show this as clear as day. The W3 sound smooth, but it was designed from the ground up to be a "fun" pair of IEM's and was NEVER meant to be neutral or accurate. So if you enjoy the W3's, that's great, but know that what you enjoy is NOT neutral, balanced, or accurate. It is skewed to have a very distinct sonic signature. I think Westone was smart because they understood the taste of the average consumer--who likes tons of bass and treble a bit recessed so it's not fatiguing over long listening periods; however, for those that prize accuracy and transparency above all else, the W3 does not fit the bill (although with some EQ'ing it gets much closer, though the smoothness starts to fall apart a little).

You've continually attacked the W3, which is fine, but as far as I can tell you don't own any other top-tier IEM on which to base your opinion. I recall from another thread that you settled on selling your W3 for the SE530, which I'm sure you will find have an even worse "recessed treble" than the W3. I think the W3 respond better to equalization than any other IEM I've heard (W3, Um3x, SE530, TF10), and if you find that the bass bleeds into the midrange, you can adjust it pretty easily. On the other hand, I didn't find the SE530's bass very extendable into the lower regions, and its treble has a low limit when it comes to equalization.

Many people have criticized the W3s for having a mid-bass hump, but I haven't found a universal-fit IEM whose bass extends as far deep as the W3. If you're really bothered by the mid-bass, which I think is primarily an issue if you listen to classical/jazz/light rock, you can tune it down and it goes away. Especially if you're willing to invest in custom tips (which I think is a no-brainer for $150 if you're picky about your audio and already own a home studio, as you said you do).

Universal-fit IEMs are still a work in progress compared to full-size cans, but I feel confident that the W3s are at least in the top 3 universal IEMs in terms of versatility and detail. If you don't like their sound compared to your full-size headphones and have tried several tips and sources, I'm not sure you will find much better unless you're willing to go for JH13s or UE 10/11 Pros.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif The bass of the W3 is very hyped and in fact overpowering, and if you think its bass is just right, then you are definitely a bass head and you would find neutral and accurate bass too light for your preference.

If I am a bass-head, then why are my favorite dynamic headphones the HD800. It's pretty undeniable that those are not bass-head headphones. And, why do I think the UE11Pro and IE8 bass is a bit too much vs their mids and highs (with most iPods and many amps) if I am a bass-head? I'm such a bass-head that I turned down an offer this summer for $2500 to sell someone my HE60.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its treble is also significantly recessed--the sparkle and air of instruments like orchestral strings, drum cymbals...etc are quite subdued compared to what a neutral frequency response should sound like. A simple comparison of the W3 with a pair of high-end reference studio monitors in an acoustically treated recording/mastering studio will show this as clear as day.

The bass and treble levels are very dependent on both the depth they are inserted and the tips used, in conjunction with your particular ear shape. My W3 have sparkle and shimmer, unlike my old IE8 unless they were used with the 2 or 3 out of 14 amps on hand that made them sound good. (IE8 which I tried 8 different tips with). It's pretty clear that they sound different to me than they do for you, and it's not just a difference of opinion - they really must sound different to be reported as being that different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif The W3 sound smooth, but it was designed from the ground up to be a "fun" pair of IEM's and was NEVER meant to be neutral or accurate. So if you enjoy the W3's, that's great, but know that what you enjoy is NOT neutral, balanced, or accurate. It is skewed to have a very distinct sonic signature. I think Westone was smart because they understood the taste of the average consumer--who likes tons of bass and treble a bit recessed so it's not fatiguing over long listening periods; however, for those that prize accuracy and transparency above all else, the W3 does not fit the bill (although with some EQ'ing it gets much closer, though the smoothness starts to fall apart a little).

See above.

 

[Spyro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif The bass of the W3 is very hyped and in fact overpowering, and if you think its bass is just right, then you are definitely a bass head and you would find neutral and accurate bass too light for your preference. Its treble is also significantly recessed--the sparkle and air of instruments like orchestral strings, drum cymbals...etc are quite subdued compared to what a neutral frequency response should sound like. A simple comparison of the W3 with a pair of high-end reference studio monitors in an acoustically treated recording/mastering studio will show this as clear as day.

Hmmm? I'd say W3 is more transparent than UM3X and the treble is pleasingly sharper and less recessed. I find if you leave the bass-portion EQ OFF on W3 it does not overwhelm but merely provides a nice fullness without a throbbing bass.

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj nellie /img/forum/go_quote.gif You've continually attacked the W3, which is fine, but as far as I can tell you don't own any other top-tier IEM on which to base your opinion.

"Attack" is a bit strong of a word. I merely give my opinion like everyone else.

I don't have to own other expensive IEM's to form an educated opinion. My Klein + Hummel O300D's are plenty enough of a reliable reference to judge any piece of audio gear by.

 

[dj nellie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Attack" is a bit strong of a word. I merely give my opinion like everyone else. I don't have to own other expensive IEM's to form an educated opinion. My Klein + Hummel O300D's are plenty enough of a reliable reference to judge any piece of audio gear by.

Well, it would be fine if the W3s just aren't to your liking and you posted your impressions and moved on. But you've repeated the same negative impressions in several posts and threads, and you even imply that anyone who likes the W3 must like overpowering or poor quality bass. We had been giving our comparison of the W3 and TF10, and you chimed in off-topic with the same comments you've made elsewhere.

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj nellie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, it would be fine if the W3s just aren't to your liking and you posted your impressions and moved on. But you've repeated the same negative impressions in several posts and threads, and you even imply that anyone who likes the W3 must like overpowering or poor quality bass. We had been giving our comparison of the W3 and TF10, and you chimed in off-topic with the same comments you've made elsewhere.

You're saying it like none of the other members on this massive forum have ever repeated their opinions about the same device(s), and I'm the only one.

My intention for having written post #1830 was simply as a small public service to let people who otherwise may not know, that the W3's bass is certainly hyped. Many people spend money they worked hard to save up on these things, and it always sucks when you buy something and find out it did not match all the raving reviews you read in forums. It happened to me when I bought the W3 based on recommendations in this forum--people who repeated that the W3 is currently the most neutral and accurate and best sounding IEM's on the market. Needless to say I was not happy about the experience and I wanted to warn others who might have the same thing happen to them. I wanted to make sure at least there are opposing opinions countering all the hype about the W3 so potential buyers will proceed with caution. That is all. It should at least be known that the W3 was designed to sound "fun" and not neutral/accurate, and this is coming from the Westone reps, in their own words.

 

[Zalithian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're saying it like none of the other members on this massive forum have ever repeated their opinions about the same device(s), and I'm the only one. My intention for having written post #1830 was simply as a small public service to let people who otherwise may not know, that the W3's bass is certainly hyped. Many people spend money they worked hard to save up on these things, and it always sucks when you buy something and find out it did not match all the raving reviews you read in forums. It happened to me when I bought the W3 based on recommendations in this forum--people who repeated that the W3 is currently the most neutral and accurate and best sounding IEM's on the market. Needless to say I was not happy about the experience and I wanted to warn others who might have the same thing happen to them. I wanted to make sure at least there are opposing opinions countering all the hype about the W3 so potential buyers will proceed with caution. That is all. It should at least be known that the W3 was designed to sound "fun" and not neutral/accurate, and this is coming from the Westone reps, in their own words.

Quote:

The bass of the W3 is very hyped and in fact overpowering, and if you think its bass is just right, then you are definitely a bass head and you would find neutral and accurate bass too light for your preference. Its treble is also significantly recessed--the sparkle and air of instruments like orchestral strings, drum cymbals...etc are quite subdued compared to what a neutral frequency response should sound like. A simple comparison of the W3 with a pair of high-end reference studio monitors in an acoustically treated recording/mastering studio will show this as clear as day.

You don't find any of that a bit much? Specifically the line about its bass being just right and being a bass head.

I personally never found the W3's anywhere near neutral no matter what tips I used, but I still liked them. Tips still make a huge difference on how they sound. The sources will also make a big difference depending on synergy. I also liked the PFE's with grey or black filters and thought their bass was great too.

In response to your public service announcement.. I'm sorry you didn't like the W3's.

You claim that you're here to warn people and spare them from wasting money on overhyped stuff but how many people in this thread alone bought the W3's and ended up loving them just like they thought they would? I'm willing to bet quite a few. I know I liked mine when I had them.

Really, you'll find the same problem with any product on the market. Someone buys into hype and doesn't feel it's warranted due to their experience and feels obligated to warn the masses against the great injustice.

There are tons of variables especially in IEMS, and just because you didn't enjoy them is no reason to go on a crusade condemning them. There is a much less abrasive way to express your discontent.

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalithian /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is a much less abrasive way to express your discontent.

The only thing I was perhaps wrong about was assuming that all that find W3's bass to be fine are bass heads. But the rest I think I was perfectly right and being fair.

W3's bass is hyped-->fact. Westone has admitted this.

Someone who finds the W3's bass to be just right and not hyped means this person will find unhyped bass to be anemic-->logical conclusion (though flawed).

Therefore someone who thinks W3's bass if perfectly fine and not hyped at all-->someone who whether he knows it or not, is a bass head (my flawed assumption). That is not a derogatory term. It simply means someone who like a lot of bass in their music.

But at the same time, someone who finds W3's bass to be perfectly fine might also enjoy sonic signatures that are more neutral/accurate, so that person is NOT a bass head. He simply has more than one preference--he could enjoy bass-heavy headphones as well as more neutral/accurate headphones (for example, HeadphoneAddict is someone like that).

Either way, W3's bass is hyped--that is a fact--that is how they were designed by the engineers at Westone. I have an email from Westone that assured me that my W3's are not defective and they indeed should sound like the way I described--that's what they aimed for when they designed the W3.

I don't think you understand the difference between constructive criticism and "abrasive" outright denouncement. If I had said "the W3 sucks! It's terrible! Don't buy it!" then that would've been unfair and out of line. Nothing I said is anything like that. I back my comments up with fair comments that are based on my own testing against various other headphones and speakers. I also give praise to the W3 when it deserves them, such as a very smooth sound and a "fun" sonic signature, and that it can sound good enough when EQ'd.

Bottom line is, unless I have posted something that has broken the rules of the forum, I haven't done a single thing wrong. I did not use profanity, and was not unfair (except for maybe assuming that all that find W3's bass is not hyped are bass heads--that I apologize for, since there are people who can enjoy more than one sonic signature of headphones). And you know what, when I like a pair of headphones, I tell it to everyone too, so others can give them a try and find joy in them (such as the ATH-M50).

 

[Zalithian]

Quote:

W3's bass is hyped-->fact. Westone has admitted this.

Exactly what do you mean by hyped? I would guess you mean over emphasized. Saying it is hyped is probably confusing people on what you mean. Hyped is usually only used in a couple instances - primarily saying something is over hyped or overrated.

Quote:

Either way, W3's bass is hyped--that is a fact--that is how they were designed by the engineers at Westone. I have an email from Westone that assured me that my W3's are not defective and they indeed should sound like the way I described--that's what they aimed for when they designed the W3.

Again, I think your use of the word hype is confusing people.

Quote:

I don't think you understand the difference between constructive criticism and "abrasive" outright denouncement. If I had said "the W3 sucks! It's terrible! Don't buy it!" then that would've been unfair and out of line. Nothing I said is anything like that. I back my comments up with fair comments that are based on my own testing against various other headphones and speakers. I also give praise to the W3 when it deserves them, such as a very smooth sound and a "fun" sonic signature, and that it can sound good enough when EQ'd.

I know what constructive criticism is, and that's not what you were posting. Constructive would have been something like.. I really enjoyed the bass impact, but I feel these have too much mid bass to be realistic, or.. I didn't like the highs. They weren't transparent enough to reflect how the highs should really sound.

You basically said the W3's were for people who hate neutrality and Westone did a good job by making them fun IEMS aimed for us non audiophile peons. No, you didn't exactly say that but it could be extracted from what you did say.

Quote:

Bottom line is, unless I have posted something that has broken the rules of the forum, I haven't done a single thing wrong. I did not use profanity, and was not unfair (except for maybe assuming that all that find W3's bass is not hyped are bass heads--that I apologize for, since there are people who can enjoy more than one sonic signature of headphones). And you know what, when I like a pair of headphones, I tell it to everyone too, so others can give them a try and find joy in them (such as the ATH-M50).

I don't think anyone's saying you broke any rules (at least I'm not)

Don't you think most people who have been positive about the W3's are doing the same thing you claim to do about headphones you like? They obviously liked the W3's and wanted to share it with others. With IEMS especially - the way people hear things will tend to be a bit different, but there are always many things to consider (preferences, source file, DAP, tips, seal) etc which will all determine how someone hears a product.

I personally don't agree with your assessment of the highs in any way, and I think the bass gets much more tame the better the fit. IEMS are just a different animal altogether and should be treated as such.

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zalithian /img/forum/go_quote.gif Exactly what do you mean by hyped? ... I know what constructive criticism is, and that's not what you were posting. Constructive would have been something like.. I really enjoyed the bass impact, but I feel these have too much mid bass to be realistic, or.. I didn't like the highs. They weren't transparent enough to reflect how the highs should really sound. You basically said the W3's were for people who hate neutrality and Westone did a good job by making them fun IEMS aimed for us non audiophile peons. No, you didn't exactly say that but it could be extracted from what you did say.

By hyped, I meant it's jacked up, over-emphasized, bloated...etc. On a frequency response graph it would look like a sizable hump in the 60~150Hz range--a hump that is much higher than more neutral sounding headphones.

Look, you can exact anything you want by reading into things that aren't there. You can do that until the cows come home, but it doesn't mean you are right. I already apologized about the assumption I made, so what else do you want? A hug and a kiss too?

 

[MacedonianHero]

HPA is far from being a "Basshead" based on everything that I've read from him (and looking at his gear).

But for my 2 cents, I would say that the W3s are in NO way overhyped. I'm actually listening to them right now (Hotel California...by The Eagles) and I am still amazed (almost 1 year into them) on just how incredible these things are.

The bass is deep and full bodied (like full sized speakers) and in no way take away from the mids. The highs are sparkly and never cease to amaze (blow my SE530's highs out of the water).

So you are definitely entitled to your opinion, but you should really stop with the "if you like these IEMs you must be a basshead! Those of us who really dig these IEMs should not be brushed with the same stroke.

Some of my very favourite cans/IEMs: AKG K701/2 and ER-4P! Far from being a basshead!

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you are definitely entitled to your opinion, but you should really stop with the "if you like these IEMs you must be a basshead! Those of us who really dig these IEMs should not be brushed with the same stroke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif I already apologized about the assumption I made, so what else do you want? A hug and a kiss too?

 

[tstarn06]

Former W3 owner here (wish I still had them now), and I think Zalithian's point is your approach and choice of wording is unclear, semi-hostile, and really not very helpful, even to those who may be on the fence about buying them. Ever heard of the book Outliers? Well, the principle applies here, I would say. You are akin to the Amazon reviewers who buy an in-ear headphone, don't insert it properly, and then say "this phone has no bass!" and rate it one star. Check the ratings. You see it all the time. 39 reviews, 33 are 4-5 stars, and therest rate it one star. Usually there is a reason for that wide disparity, pilot error mainly is the cause. Not saying you didn't use the W3 properly, but you get the analogy.

Of course you have every right to dislike the W3, or "warn" people who are thinking about buying them. But you did in fact paint W3 owners as less than sophisticated listeners who wouldn't know good sound if it hit them on the head. That's the problematic aspect of your posts, along with misusing the word hype. And no hugs/kisses required. Just saying that it wasn't just the basshead comment alone where you want awry.

I guess the other confusing aspect to all of this is why do you still own the Westone 3 (it's listed in your sig). Maybe I missed something.

 

[zeromacro]

Mehh. People are entitled to their opinion. I personally like the W3 but it's by no means a be all end all IEM -just like every other can/IEM I've ever owned or listened to. W3's are quite colored, and fun sounding. Far from neutral. But it does it well. One thing I noticed with them is how much the sonic signature changes when fiddling with the EQ settings (on my S9). I actually tame the bass a tad down which sound a lot more natural in my ears. W3's with proper EQ becomes an entirely different animal so I change settings according to genre. On some songs the bass at times may sound a bit overwhelming with bass heavy songs like Hiphop or Rock. So I tame it a bit down which then sounds absolutely fantastic. With piano I just could never find a way to make the W3 sound properly. Everything just sounds so veiled in comparison to the RE0. Which is why I own more than 1 earphone (like most others here). And which again goes back to my point that no headphone I've ever listened to is a be all end all. There's always gonna be an IEM better at some department than the other. Just my .02