[PrTv]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim.a /img/forum/go_quote.gif Review of Audio-GD DAC-19MK3 The DAC-19mk3 is only as good as your interconnects. Only a high quality interconnect can do justice to this DAC.

I've just upgraded the SP/DIF cable and second that statement.

Initially I didn't have much faith about upgrading digital cable, and paid all my attention to good analog interconnect. That's why I bought a 22$ Canare 75Ω cable as suggested by Audio-gd.

After using it for about a week, I came to realize that this DAC only sounded slightly better than my Rotel RCD-06, which is not a "hi-end" gear by any means. The DAC didn't seem to be as good as many people in this thread put it.

I then consulted the shop where this DAC was bought, and was told I should upgrade the SP/DIF cable for this DAC to shine. I then did some search and found that Oyaide FTVS-510 Coaxial is one of the best coaxial cable out there.

The 1.65 ft cable with Oyaide Coaxial termination costing me around 120$. It's fortunate that the DAC sits right above my transport, so 1.65 ft is more than enough. When I swapped in this new cable, I could notice a huge improvement immediately.

I don't know about USB or optical, but if you're using Coaxial, I suggest using something good.

For me, the sonic improvement when swapping in this 120$ digital cable was greater than upgrading from 280$ SilverLace to 580$ DNA.

 

[Currawong]

After the confusion of the Ref 1 and Phoenix being discussed in each-other's threads, I think a combined C2/DAC19 thread would indeed be in order rather than two separate ones.

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickEC /img/forum/go_quote.gif I recently found that the 19MK3: 1) Sound better with coaxial, compared to toslink (like most of us already know). More details, more expressive (amplitude not clipped across almost entire frequency range, unlike toslink). 2) Sensitive to transport system. Even a switch of transport's power cord tells a different story. 3) Sensitive to power cord. Based on my experience, change of power cord is like having a different DAC (e.g. from my previous Zero DAC to 19MK3). I changed from Belden 19364 to Belden 83803 (silver terminated) to appreciate the sensitivity. YMMV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrTv /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've just upgraded the SP/DIF cable and second that statement. Initially I didn't have much faith about upgrading digital cable, and paid all my attention to good analog interconnect. That's why I bought a 22$ Canare 75Ω cable as suggested by Audio-gd. After using it for about a week, I came to realize that this DAC only sounded slightly better than my Rotel RCD-06, which is not a "hi-end" gear by any means. The DAC didn't seem to be as good as many people in this thread put it. I then consulted the shop where this DAC was bought, and was told I should upgrade the SP/DIF cable for this DAC to shine. I then did some search and found that Oyaide FTVS-510 Coaxial is one of the best coaxial cable out there. The 1.65 ft cable with Oyaide Coaxial termination costing me around 120$. It's fortunate that the DAC sits right above my transport, so 1.65 ft is more than enough. When I swapped in this new cable, I could notice a huge improvement immediately. I don't know about USB or optical, but if you're using Coaxial, I suggest using something good. For me, the sonic improvement when swapping in this 120$ digital cable was greater than upgrading from 280$ SilverLace to 580$ DNA.

This is similar to what I have found out playing around with the dac19mk3.

The cable that affected the most the dac in my system was the power cable. Putting some good and affordable power cables such as Olfex or Supra will bring some improvements to the sound.
However, when used with the Hifi Cables PowerTrans Plus, it is like audiotioning a different DAC. It retains all the qualities of the stock cable but increases dramatically the resolution and dynamics, it clears some midrange fuziness and extends both the bass depth and high frequency extension. With the stock cable, you get a good representation of the event, but with the PowerTrans Plus cable, you feel transported to the event. This is how big the change is.

The second most important change was the source (transport and digital cable). After trying quite a few digital cables and transports, I settled on the m2tech hiface + Oyaide DB-510 BNC cable. Compared to the usb input there is again a huge difference, the soundstage is bigger with hollographic imaging. Timbre of instruments are more accurate and the representation of music seems livelier and more dynamic.
The Oyaide DB-510 was in fact the missing link I have been looking for these last weeks. When I used to compare the DF1704 vs PMD100, I could find qualities (and weaknesses) for both modules and I mostly settled on the DF1704 which offers a lively and bold represantation but lacked the tonal refinement of the PMD100. But with the Hiface + Oyaide + DF1704 I am currently, I have got now better dynamics than I ever got before, and refinement of the sound that I always thought due to the fact that the PMD100 was cheating. My guess is that the DF1704 is the most revealing of the two modes and can be less than desirable if the source and cables are not adequate to the task.

Other changes that also heavily affect the sound of the dac19mk3 are the interconnects and the platform support.

My next plan is to have the internals of the DAC (as well my headamp) rewired. I have read in the Ref 1 thread that Pricklely Peete had good results rewiring his Ref1 with Mundorf wire, but I wonder if using the same silver cable as the one used in my interconnects and headphone cables wouldn't yield better results. Anyway, there is no way to know before trying ...

 

[SilverCans]

Slim.a can you explain how a power cord upgrade can make any difference considering that in the end the power is coming from mediocre wire in the wall? I'm not saying it is a bogus claim, it may very well make a huge difference on this dac to upgrade the power cable, but I'm curious on your thoughts on why/how it is.

 

[Trapper32]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed, I can give specific info on the why the Alterra Cyclone II chip is the better solution but you'll have to wait for me to post that info tomorrow since I just had a molar pulled today and I'm not feeling all that great. The DSP1 chip ...think of it as a high speed, ultra wide bandwidth digital communications CPU (250Mhz) that has the equivalent computing power of a PII processor. Details to follow. Peete.

Thanks Peete..

looking forward to it

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverCans /img/forum/go_quote.gif Slim.a can you explain how a power cord upgrade can make any difference considering that in the end the power is coming from mediocre wire in the wall? I'm not saying it is a bogus claim, it may very well make a huge difference on this dac to upgrade the power cable, but I'm curious on your thoughts on why/how it is.

I have no valid explanation on why it affects the sound so much and I do not want to go into a debate about power cords.

However, here are some of the thoughts I have about power cables (the order of the points has no importance).

It is something that I have experimented and that seems to work for both audio and video gear.

The power cord I am using (see here) uses high purity conductors and is heavily shielded. It also has high capacitance (in purpose) in order to filter out all the high frequency content. So it is not harmful to the equipement and unshielded interconnects I am using and it filter out the current.
However, this is not the only explanation since people have heard improvements with unshielded power cords.

Finally, Kingwa (the designer and owner of Audio-gd) advises to use high quality power cords with his gear. However, with all his technical knowledge, he never gave a clear reason why his components would be affected by the power cord. Since I am not more knowledgeable, I won't pretend that I have found THE answer by myself.

I brought up the subject of power cables so that actual dac19mK3 users could know which specific brands of power cables work well with this gear. RickEC had good results with his Belden 83803 and I had good results with the Hifi Cables & Cie Powertrans Plus power cable.

For people wishing to discuss further why and how power cables can make a difference, they can post their thoughts on a separate thread I have already started here : http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/my...cables-460169/ or in one of the many threads discussing the subject on the sound science forum.

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif Agreed, I can give specific info on the why the Alterra Cyclone II chip is the better solution but you'll have to wait for me to post that info tomorrow since I just had a molar pulled today and I'm not feeling all that great. The DSP1 chip ...think of it as a high speed, ultra wide bandwidth digital communications CPU (250Mhz) that has the equivalent computing power of a PII processor. Details to follow. Peete.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trapper32 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Peete.. looking forward to it

I am also looking forward for explanation. Last time I tried to read the Alterra Cyclone II datasheet ... I had a headache

 

[SilverCans]

Thanks for your insight slim.a, I'm always curious and in the pursuit of knowledge.

Regarding the Cyclone, I take it Kingwa developed the software / programming of it? I wonder where he got the algorithms.

 

[mmerrill99]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the Hiface and in stock form it isn't worth paying 2x the TerraLnX cost, plus the drivers are buggy as heck. I'm telling you that the idea that a decent transport can be powered off the USB +5V will be laughed at in a couple years. The Hiface is a stepping stone product, a step in the right direction but they left off the fundamentals. I am going to battery power the clocks and keep my fingers crossed that they make a decent driver before they go under.

Hi regal,
I can't say anything about the relative value of the HiFace Vs other USB transports BUT I can tell you that powering the clocks via battery is a substantial jump in sound - another PS mod that provides a jump in sound is to provide clean 3.3V to the Xilinx Vccio. Both of these transport the HiFace into an amazing product. Mods, description & pics here: M2TECH Hiface USB->SPDIF 24/192Khz asynch - Page 18 - diyAudio

 

[haloxt]

Silvercans, sometimes people do things like getting a dedicated mains supply, replacing the internal house wiring, or running off a battery or one of the many forms of power conditioning.

 

[FauDrei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverCans /img/forum/go_quote.gif Regarding the Cyclone, I take it Kingwa developed the software / programming of it? I wonder where he got the algorithms.

Speaking of DSP-1 programming... I think they slightly messed-up or overdid it on dithering part of the firmware: DSP-1 is so much more detailed and lifelike with dithering disabled. Enabled dithering "rounds the edges" in a pleasant way, but in a process it masks the subtlest details that come through when dithering is not applied.

Other DSP-1 options perform as they should.

...in my setup anyway.

 

[Fusco]

Any opinions as to how the 19mk3 compares to the MHDT Paradisea?

 

[MadMan007]

I think it's funny that Kingwa 'backtracked' with the names of the 'new' DAC-19 and C-2. Any person, even non-audio nut, would have to figure that 'mk3' is later than non-mk or that 'C' version is later than non-C. The addition of pre-amp to the C-2 is nice to see since it's a simple but useful addition and of course the DAC-19 is fully revamped.

They do look intriguing but you're looking at $1000+ for a DSP-1 DAC-19 and a C-2 with audio-gd discrete OPA which gives them a lot more competition, especially if one looks used. Then again there aren't a lot of half-rack pieces available in general on the audio market. I look forward to seeing some comments on these. New thread(s) needed for sure!

 

[Zoide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMan007 /img/forum/go_quote.gif New thread(s) needed for sure!

Agree

 

[slim.a]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FauDrei /img/forum/go_quote.gif Speaking of DSP-1 programming... I think they slightly messed-up or overdid it on dithering part of the firmware: DSP-1 is so much more detailed and lifelike with dithering disabled. Enabled dithering "rounds the edges" in a pleasant way, but in a process it masks the subtlest details that come through when dithering is not applied. Other DSP-1 options perform as they should. ...in my setup anyway.

I have had a similar experience with the dithering option in Foobar. Even with the output set at 24 bits, I could hearing that "rounding of the edges" you described. That was very surprising as the the dac I am using has a real resolution of less than 20 bits and I was listening to 16 bits material at reasonably loud volumes. In theory, I shouldn't have heard any difference but I heard a smoothing action when the dithering was engaged.
I also disabled the dithering, because I felt I had more low level details with dithering off. It is weird that you heard the same effect on the DSP1.