[gLer]

My last demo session with Traillii is a long time ago, and I would want to spend some more quality time with it to draw the conclusion.

Maybe the question is: If an IEM is identified as being “musical”, does this automatically mean that it is not referencing tuning? I have seen similar arguments on the reverse side - U12t and VX are both accepted as reference tuning and music production-focused, and both are far from being musical.

I think reference tuning should (or at least could) be musical. Unless you take refrence to mean it's just a monitor tuned to show an engineer everything that's in the mix, in which case it's probably tuned for clarity and accuracy above all else (and usually at the expense of an enjoyably boosted bass response).

I don't think there's one standard definition of 'reference' because every engineer will have a set of speakers (more likely than IEMs) he references to produce the final mix. And as far as I know, there's no hard and fast baseline for a reference tuning for listeners (we can't even agree on eartips and you want us to agree on what sounds 'accurate to the recording'?).

So to answer the original question I asked, you have to decide what constitutes 'reference' for you? But, more importantly, if that type of tuning is more or less enjoyable to you than Traillii (or any other IEM for that matter), or if the benefit for you is not so much in the enjoyment but in having an IEM that you consider to be 'reference'.

And now I need some coffee...

 

[toaster]

Maybe the question is: If an IEM is identified as being “musical”, does this automatically mean that it is not referencing tuning?

Not sure about this...

Musicality to me is more about prat (pacing, rhythm, and timing,) and overall engagement, which are both somewhat similarly amorphous and vague concepts like musicality.

Reference tuning is more about a balanced, unexaggerated frequency response and timbral accuracy. Traillii has the most of both I’ve heard.

FS is incoming sometime next week, and will be revisiting fourte as well in a few days...

 

[RTodd]

My last demo session with Traillii is a long time ago, and I would want to spend some more quality time with it to draw the conclusion.

Maybe the question is: If an IEM is identified as being “musical”, does this automatically mean that it is not referencing tuning? I have seen similar arguments on the reverse side - U12t and VX are both accepted as reference tuning and music production-focused, and both are far from being musical.

Reference or neutral tuning what specifically sounds that way?

To me it was U12T with the PAW6000 because that is what I started with, and all frequencies were in balance to my ears, no color just balance.

Than I expanded to the P6Pro and Traillii, several other demo players and sets, to realize I was actually missing some of the music with the PAW6K and U12T, mostly due to the dynamics capabilities of the PAW6K not the U12T.

The U12T also lacked a little on the engagement side of things, that may be another reason I think of it as a reference sound.

I am not sure at this point that neutral or reference really help, comparisons between a set I have not heard and one I know very well, particularly with a chain I know as well, these are really helpful for me to get a sense if I would possibly like what is being critiqued.

Plus they are always a fun read.

 

[bluestorm1992]

I think reference tuning should (or at least could) be musical. Unless you take refrence to mean it's just a monitor tuned to show an engineer everything that's in the mix, in which case it's probably tuned for clarity and accuracy above all else (and usually at the expense of an enjoyably boosted bass response).

I don't think there's one standard definition of 'reference' because every engineer will have a set of speakers (more likely than IEMs) he references to produce the final mix. And as far as I know, there's no hard and fast baseline for a reference tuning for listeners (we can't even agree on eartips and you want us to agree on what sounds 'accurate to the recording'?).

So to answer the original question I asked, you have to decide what constitutes 'reference' for you? But, more importantly, if that type of tuning is more or less enjoyable to you than Traillii (or any other IEM for that matter), or if the benefit for you is not so much in the enjoyment but in having an IEM that you consider to be 'reference'.

And now I need some coffee...

First, I would just say that I would imagine myself to enjoy both FS and Traillii, but they offer quite different experience. Just to mention one of the biggest differences to me. It is sort of well recognized that Traillii has an excellent BA bass, probably the best out there. With certain tracks and genres this is really enjoyable. I have also found it to help establish the body of music and makes the music more engaging (relative to FS) to me upon a first listen.

FS, on the other hand, has a flat or slight U presentation. In my listening session with @tawmizzzz, it was very clear to me that FS does not have the mid to upper bass emphasis. This would have been a boring tuning if the “air” in the music were not there - and this is where all the magic of FS comes from. It helps with my music enjoyment in long listening sessions because of the spherical feeling and realism created by the extra “air” in vocal and instruments.

I have been holding off to conclusive state that this must be from the BCD, but because this is something so special that I have never experienced in any other IEMs I have tried, I am leaning towards attributing this to BCD.

 

[KuroKitsu]

@mvvRAZ can we confirm this as "The bloody BCD actually has a purpose"?

 

[mvvRAZ]

@mvvRAZ can we confirm this as "The bloody BCD actually has a purpose"?

I mentioned this in another post. To me, there's 100% no chance it is conducting any sound through any bone. Imo it acts like a big, tubeless driver (wouldn't be surprised if it was full range or treble only), creating said "airy" effect

 

[woodcans]

So the question is, do you ever listen to the FS and think "ok, this does not sound as enjoyable as Traillii"? And at the same time, I take it you don't don't consider Traillii a reference tuning?

Not directed at me but I’ll throw in my two cents.

In short, yes. After spending time with the FS, my opinion and enjoyment of IEMs became altered. I am not sure which of the two is closer to ‘reference’ but listening to Traillii after becoming accustomed to the FS’ presentation led to less enjoyment of the bird for me. The Traillii is probably the better set from the technical standpoint of top to bottom FR, bass extension, treble sparkle. But when faced with which set to grab for pure musical enjoyment, after several hours of back and forth, for me the FS is the clear winner.

Regarding MQA, I had a similar experience noticing distortion on multiple tracks and thought it might have been my speakers and/or IEMs. Qobuz seems to have solved that issue.

 

[RTodd]

Not directed at me but I’ll throw in my two cents.

In short, yes. After spending time with the FS, my opinion and enjoyment of IEMs became altered. I am not sure which of the two is closer to ‘reference’ but listening to Traillii after becoming accustomed to the FS’ presentation led to less enjoyment of the bird for me. The Traillii is probably the better set from the technical standpoint of top to bottom FR, bass extension, treble sparkle. But when faced with which set to grab for pure musical enjoyment, after several hours of back and forth, for me the FS is the clear winner.

Regarding MQA, I had a similar experience noticing distortion on multiple tracks and thought it might have been my speakers and/or IEMs. Qobuz seems to have solved that issue.

Couple more comments like that one and I am going to have to hear the FS. I already find the Thummim C9 quicker to grab for enjoyment, have to be stationary though.

What is your source player are they maximized for each Traillii vs. FS or are they the same? Same music?

 

[bigbeans]

Couple more comments like that one and I am going to have to hear the FS. I already find the Thummim C9 quicker to grab for enjoyment, have to be stationary though.

What is your source player are they maximized for each Traillii vs. FS or are they the same? Same music?

The Musicteck sale is ending soon...
I will be testing mine one various gears and May do an extensive write up on FS with comparison to Traillii.

I can do a super duper brief first impressions when (first 24hrs with FS) if you’re interested.

edit: will give FS a week before quick first impressions, as it may need time to get used to

 

[mvvRAZ]

Couple more comments like that one and I am going to have to hear the FS. I already find the Thummim C9 quicker to grab for enjoyment, have to be stationary though.

What is your source player are they maximized for each Traillii vs. FS or are they the same? Same music?

The thummim and the FS are worlds apart to me, completely different idea behind the tuning. I love both, and while I sold my thum I’m going to pick one up again soon for sure, it’s just so complementary to the more reference-oriented FuSang

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

The Musicteck sale is ending soon...
I will be testing mine one various gears and May do an extensive write up on FS with comparison to Traillii.

I can do a super duper brief first impressions when (first 24hrs with FS) if you’re interested.

Yes. Please do. But whatever you do, don’t make me want to buy it.

 

[RTodd]

The Musicteck sale is ending soon...
I will be testing mine one various gears and May do an extensive write up on FS with comparison to Traillii.

I can do a super duper brief first impressions when (first 24hrs with FS) if you’re interested.

Sounds like FS needs a lot of burn in.

 

[RTodd]

The thummim and the FS are worlds apart to me, completely different idea behind the tuning. I love both, and while I sold my thum I’m going to pick one up again soon for sure, it’s just so complementary to the more reference-oriented FuSang

Yep, Thummim is bass focused, reaches deep down providing to me an irresistible foundation for everything else. FS is probably the opposite where the enjoyment would come down from above. Do not really know since I never heard it, if people keep saying they grab it over the bird that spells trouble and ramps up the fledgling desire for me to hear what all the fuss is about.

Probably need a burned in demo, not a fresh out of the box set?

 

[mvvRAZ]

Yep, Thummim is bass focused, reaches deep down providing to me an irresistible foundation for everything else. FS is probably the opposite where the enjoyment would come down from above. Do not really know since I never heard it, if people keep saying they grab it over the bird that spells trouble and ramps up the fledgling desire for me to hear what all the fuss is about.

Probably need a burned in demo, not a fresh out of the box set?

Personally haven’t noticed any significant changes over time with mine, you will imo get at least a great idea of what it’s like off any unit

Also, can we take a moment to appreciate Joseph, one of the greatest memers of our generation?

 

[KuroKitsu]

I mentioned this in another post. To me, there's 100% no chance it is conducting any sound through any bone. Imo it acts like a big, tubeless driver (wouldn't be surprised if it was full range or treble only), creating said "airy" effect

I may have skipped the post after I read the intro and saw reference being mentioned.

Pretty cool if the BCD does none of the BC