RAZ's TOTL review and rambles thread... could it be.... alive?

[mvvRAZ]

Michael there is no need to strap on gloves with me, I didn't come here to stir the pot. I quoted the part of this response in which you were responding to me, to make it more simple, the rest of your quote was directed at some one else.

I did not come at you argumentatively, I merely said I don't agree with your take on ODIN and stated facts.and will reiterate those facts again for you. You didn't like Erlkonig, you said it bored you, you don't agree with burn-in and do believe in cables. Vanity or not you like cables. Your initial impressions, you wrote 2 days ago, came within a couple of hours of you hearing ODIN. That is quick considering you heard ODIN and listened to Balmung and then had time to write your initial impressions, all in a couple of hours. Folks other than me told you the ODIN needs time, but it is your perogative to write as you see fit.

You can also swap cables and ear tips the moment you open the package, but I do feel you need to at least give something a chance as the manufacturer meant for it to be heard before you write impressions. It was tuned with the 1960 and Final E tips.

The other thread I am a part of has nothing to do with anything here. Not all of the 56 participants agree on everything, all of the time, but it is civil, as was my post here.

I have chronicled my thoughts on ODIN in the EE thread, it hasn't all been rainbows and unicorns, but it is a work in progress. Only two reviewers have had the ODIN for more than a couple of weeks.

Honestly, none of this drama needs to be directed at me. That is why I said, this is your thread and I respect that. Just because I hear things differently, and said that I don't agree with your ODIN thoughts, you take the gloves off. I am not the only that doesn't agree with your thoughts.

I do want to say, the you said Jack was good to you, but then you make a statement such as the one below. It isn't cool to say a whole bunch of people will be disappointed. Not the sort of thing you say about a person's company, you say has treated you well. it will sort itself out when more of the public hears the product, allow that to play out on its own.

"Ultimately it's not in the interest of Empire Ears for a whole bunch of people to buy an Odin based on the hype, be disappointed, and flood the forums with second hand units. IMHO the most optimal situation is where the sales aren't ultra disproportionately high, but the people who have them are happy"

Obviously, disagreeing with you was not welcome here. Sorry if I offended you in your own thread.

You yourself said the Odin is not for everyone. This is my version of saying that and why it was not for me

My problem here is that you aren’t disagreeing with me, you’re trying to invalidate my impressions on my thread. Different reviewers have different listening methodologies, and you will have to realize at some point that your way of doing things isn’t the only way to do things.

No matter what item it is, I spend a few hours with it, and post initial impressions - in every single case I’ve been 100% that those are my own initial impressions and that they shouldn’t be taken as a final review.

I’m far from saying everyone who got an Odin will be disappointed, and I completely agree with you that it is not for everyone. I’m simply stating what I found to be unpleasant about it and if there are others who are sensitive to a forward and thin upper midrange, this might actually be a useful closing impression for them

I will of course also try it with the stock cable on Monday as promised, but no cable is able to shave off several decibles from the upper midrange to bring them to a level I find enjoyable. Another member of this forum also mentioned the stock cable eats away at their extension, which would be a major negative point where my personal enjoyment is concerned

If you disagree with my reviewing methodology, I’d simply recommend you to read someone else’s impressions. If you are here to tell me how to listen to my own gear that I paid for myself, then yeah, I’ll happily just show you the door

 

[subguy812]

No Michael, I know where the door is. Would you like me to hang a sign in the window on the way out that says only group think and opinion's that align with mine welcome?

Peace out

 

[Damz87]

Just want to jump in here because I actually agree with Raz’s impression of the Odin, and I can appreciate his choice to return his unit. The upper midrange tonality is a bit too cold and dry to work for certain genres in my music library too. When I’m paying over $5k AUD for an IEM, the expectations are high, and I want an IEM that works for my entire library, not just part of it. The Erlkonig does that, so does my recently acquired 18s.

I’ve tried cable rolling with my Leo II, PW 1960 4-wire and Horus Octa. I heard slight changes here and there and found some improvement in the upper mids with the Leo II. However, it’s not a night and day difference. The overall tonality of the Odin is still there. I’ve now switched back to the stormbreaker to let it burn in. It’s racked up close to 100 hours. It hasn’t changed anything in the upper mids so far. The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t believe Raz’s impressions should be completely discounted just because he didn’t do extensive burn in, or because he didn’t use the stormbreaker. Neither of those things have changed the area that he has a problem with for me either, so they are completely valid impressions in my opinion.

I suspect the Odin will be a polarising IEM as more and more people start receiving their units. I personally will hold onto mine for the time being, as it does playback some parts of my music library exceptionally well. But if it were my only IEM, I’d probably feel a little disappointed.

 

[normie610]

Just want to jump in here because I actually agree with Raz’s impression of the Odin, and I can appreciate his choice to return his unit. The upper midrange tonality is a bit too cold and dry to work for certain genres in my music library too. When I’m paying over $5k AUD for an IEM, the expectations are high, and I want an IEM that works for my entire library, not just part of it. The Erlkonig does that, so does my recently acquired 18s.

I’ve tried cable rolling with my Leo II, PW 1960 4-wire and Horus Octa. I heard slight changes here and there and found some improvement in the upper mids with the Leo II. However, it’s not a night and day difference. The overall tonality of the Odin is still there. I’ve now switched back to the stormbreaker to let it burn in. It’s racked up close to 100 hours. It hasn’t changed anything in the upper mids so far. The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t believe Raz’s impressions should be completely discounted just because he didn’t do extensive burn in, or because he didn’t use the stormbreaker. Neither of those things have changed the area that he has a problem with for me either, so they are completely valid impressions in my opinion.

I suspect the Odin will be a polarising IEM as more and more people start receiving their units. I personally will hold onto mine for the time being, as it does playback some parts of my music library exceptionally well. But if it were my only IEM, I’d probably feel a little disappointed.

May I ask what kind of genre you find the Odin is not suitable for? I think that both genre AND personal preference on genre will play a big part on someone’s perception of how the IEM sounds.

 

[Damz87]

May I ask what kind of genre you find the Odin is not suitable for? I think that both genre AND personal preference on genre will play a big part on someone’s perception of how the IEM sounds.

It’s mostly the vocal trance/electronic stuff I listen to.

Definitely. That’s what I was saying on the EE thread, the Odin is just different to any other IEM I’ve owned. I’m sure others will (and already do) enjoy and appreciate it’s tone

 

[normie610]

It’s mostly the vocal trance/electronic stuff I listen to.

Definitely. That’s what I was saying on the EE thread, the Odin is just different to any other IEM I’ve owned. I’m sure others will (and already do) enjoy and appreciate it’s tone

Thanks man. While I do listen to a wide variety of genres, I mostly listen to jazz (vocal and instruments) and classical nowadays, so I hope Odin will fit the bill. Thinking about getting a pair later in the year.

 

[hshock76]

Thanks man. While I do listen to a wide variety of genres, I mostly listen to jazz (vocal and instruments) and classical nowadays, so I hope Odin will fit the bill. Thinking about getting a pair later in the year.

I listen to lots of Jazz Vocals and instruments and can tell you Odin will do very fine. I have the Elysium Uni as well and I rate them both extremely high.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Thanks man. While I do listen to a wide variety of genres, I mostly listen to jazz (vocal and instruments) and classical nowadays, so I hope Odin will fit the bill. Thinking about getting a pair later in the year.

The Odin’s upper midrange does play well with Jazz and presents it with a certain “flamboyance,” slight exaggeration even maybe

Where the Odin really didn’t perform for me were genres like Rock, Alt, Rap as well as some modern pop which sounded overly hot

A few specific artists which were problematic for me:
K.Flay
Jungle
Florence + The Machine
Childish Gambino
AB-Soul

Jazzy/soul artists I tried and enjoyed it with:
Roberta Flack
Moriarty
Etta James (though this was borderline as her vocal in some recordings did sound a bit shouty)
Louis Armstrong

I am considering sending my unit to @doctorjuggles and selling it like a week later instead of returning it, who will be able to provide some additional impressions

 

[gLer]

Without wanting to jump into any debates, I'll just add my vote for genre matching. Impressions, for me, are only really useful when know which music was used for those impressions. The last two or three posts have therefore been more useful that most of what's come before.

This is a great thread, and everyone is welcome to their impressions in their own threads. I'm certainly not going to come and poop on the floor in Michael's house. He can round around in here in his polka dot underwear playing thrash metal for all I care**, but I do value the time he takes to review these unobtanium IEMs for those of us that will never have access to them.

**Now there's an image I need to get out of my mind stat!

 

[mvvRAZ]

Without wanting to jump into any debates, I'll just add my vote for genre matching. Impressions, for me, are only really useful when know which music was used for those impressions. The last two or three posts have therefore been more useful that most of what's come before.

This is a great thread, and everyone is welcome to their impressions in their own threads. I'm certainly not going to come and poop on the floor in Michael's house. He can round around in here in his polka dot underwear playing thrash metal for all I care**, but I do value the time he takes to review these unobtanium IEMs for those of us that will never have access to them.

**Now there's an image I need to get out of my mind stat!

I personally find that where reviewing is concerned, the best thing one can do is find several people that have impressions that are consistent with yours, regardless of preferences. The reason why I got @doctorjuggles involved in this thread is just that - while we have differing preferences, our impressions are extremely consistent, so his ranking and reviews are ones that I am almost certain I will experience myself.

Everyone will have their own bias, and I believe in fully stating my bias as opposed to trying to correct for it in an attempt at some form of "objectivity." I am, and always have been direct about my listening time, listening conditions, method of acquisition of the products and any cables/sources that I am using when listening.

If you disagree with my methodologies, it's really as simple as not reading my impressions and reviews.

I'd just like to mention that I fully welcome any and every IEM discussion on this thread, but I will also not stand by as others try and invalidate my impressions entirely. I am interesting in anyone sharing his opinion, but I am not interested in others telling me my take is flat out wrong.

 

[tieuly1]

Shilling? Really? That's the best you have?

Shucks my man, you won't need a PR manager if you keep putting out misleading reviews.

Well despite your previous intentions of giving it a chance with the intended cable, you've revealed your hand it seems. Based on the language you're using, it seems fairly likely that when it does correct the mid-range, you'll try to maintain your pride and deny it anyways.

I enjoyed myself as well, I appreciate you providing your thread for some healthy discussion. Maybe I too shall start a thread and call it the, "No BS reviews" thread. It'll be a lovely place where all submitted reviews will be transparent and conducted as intended. Any variables from the control during such a review will be listed to inform the readers. I'd tell you to stop by sometime buuuut yeaaa.. people will want the truth there. Hey! you've always got this thread.

Be honest with you, your reviews from Nio, Hero, to Odin remind me some kind of BS or bias. It call personal reference and it might not be for everyone. You insult someone review on their own teritory.

 

[gLer]

In a subjective hobby, everything is bias. All we want is some modicum of composure, and people with experience and access to the latest gear that can share their impressions (very different, in my opinion, to reviews) so that others can revel in 'discovering' the new stuff through their ears, so to speak.

Michael, Crin, Amos, Aminus, Alex, Resolve, heck even HBB and Zeos - they all have their own style, taste, bias, and brand preference, but all of them are open and honest about them so when we read their impressions, we're not going in blind.

After all, as readers (myself included), we read these impressions with our own biases. Confirmation bias (or the opposite of that, whatever it is) plays a HUGE role in how we personally read and react to impressions and reviews.

 

[mvvRAZ]

In a subjective hobby, everything is bias. All we want is some modicum of composure, and people with experience and access to the latest gear that can share their impressions (very different, in my opinion, to reviews) so that others can revel in 'discovering' the new stuff through their ears, so to speak.

Michael, Crin, Amos, Aminus, Alex, Resolve, heck even HBB and Zeos - they all have their own style, taste, bias, and brand preference, but all of them are open and honest about them so when we read their impressions, we're not going in blind.

After all, as readers (myself included), we read these impressions with our own biases. Confirmation bias (or the opposite of that, whatever it is) plays a HUGE role in how we personally read and react to impressions and reviews.

I actually haven’t seen Zeos mentioned in a while, I absolutely love his review style and he’s a big part of the reason why I got into reviewing in the first place

The good that did come out of all this drama is that it gave me the idea to make a post that lists all my preferences (including music I listen to), brand biases/relationships and whatnot, and even some purely subjective feelings I have about a variety of manufacturers. All other comparisons and impressions will be delayed a little in favor of that as the one thing that I am absolutely adamant about is my transparency

 

[toranku]

You yourself said the Odin is not for everyone. This is my version of saying that and why it was not for me

My problem here is that you aren’t disagreeing with me, you’re trying to invalidate my impressions on my thread. Different reviewers have different listening methodologies, and you will have to realize at some point that your way of doing things isn’t the only way to do things.

No matter what item it is, I spend a few hours with it, and post initial impressions - in every single case I’ve been 100% that those are my own initial impressions and that they shouldn’t be taken as a final review.

I’m far from saying everyone who got an Odin will be disappointed, and I completely agree with you that it is not for everyone. I’m simply stating what I found to be unpleasant about it and if there are others who are sensitive to a forward and thin upper midrange, this might actually be a useful closing impression for them

I will of course also try it with the stock cable on Monday as promised, but no cable is able to shave off several decibles from the upper midrange to bring them to a level I find enjoyable. Another member of this forum also mentioned the stock cable eats away at their extension, which would be a major negative point where my personal enjoyment is concerned

If you disagree with my reviewing methodology, I’d simply recommend you to read someone else’s impressions. If you are here to tell me how to listen to my own gear that I paid for myself, then yeah, I’ll happily just show you the door

Mvvraz, your impressions and reviews are very much high quality, well thought out content and are definitely welcome on this site. Don't let others' insecurity put you down. Agreeing to disagree is very important part of this 100% subjective hobby, not everyone will enjoy what you enjoy and not everyone will dislike what you dislike.

Keep up the great work.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Mvvraz, your impressions and reviews are very much high quality, well thought out content and are definitely welcome on this site. Don't let others' insecurity put you down. Agreeing to disagree is very important part of this 100% subjective hobby, not everyone will enjoy what you enjoy and not everyone will dislike what you dislike.

Keep up the great work.

Thank you!!