RAZ's TOTL review and rambles thread... could it be.... alive?

[Tristy]

The reason the SR25 peaked my interest is because I think there is someone on the EE board that is running the Odin out of one and seems to be pleased with the setup.

It pairs very very well with the Solaris SE. Restricts the stage quite a bit with my LX though and makes it sound a little congested.

 

[mvvRAZ]

EE Odin closing thoughts

Well, I suppose this will have to be said at some point, so let's get it out of the way. I've spoken to EE and decided to return my Odin

After further listening and also trying it with the Hugo 2 to see if that adjusts the signature to what I find enjoyable, I found that the upper midrange is something I simply cannot deal with. I was wondering if this is just my perception of it or if there is something else going on here, so I went on Crinacle's graph tool and compared it to a few IEMs I've heard recently, or some that I generally enjoy and use as a reference for a tonality that appeals to me, and the Odin absolutely smashed their upper midrange in terms of raw quantity (around 2k more specifically).

An IEM who's upper midrange I found to be quite overdone is the MMR Homunculus - below is a graph of how the Homunculus compares to the Odin:

The Homunculus (orange) peaks slightly higher around 3k, but the Odin (green) still has more upper mids all the way before that. It doesn't help either than the presentation of the midrange is rather cold and thin which makes it extremely unpleasant to listen to.

I think a good track that exemplifies that is K.Flay's High Enough - when she goes "I'm already high enough" the Odin feels like it bursts through my eardrums with the amount of upper midrange quantity.

I'm also not a big fan of the overall thinness of the midrange in relation to the warmer and slower sub-bass, which creates a partial incoherence to my ears.

I'll be fully honest here and say that I tried to Stockholm myself into loving the Odin really hard as EE really were extremely kind to me and I feel bad about disliking a product they've developed for so long and were so passionate about. Ultimately though, I have to be honest about what I heard as I have been in the past.

Either way, as I'm returning the unit I'll only be making some small comparisons in the future based off memory, but the Odin is an IEM that I simply cannot get behind or recommend
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Odin and Stormbreaker

I am finally able to test the Odin with its stock cable and here are the changes I experience when comparing to the Eletech Socrates

Positive changes:

- bass tightens and the lower midrange texture does improve, and while they don't quite sound 100% in line to me, they do sound less incoherent. It's definitely worth stating that I found that the Solaris 2020 had a similar issue where the bass texture is not in line with that of the midrange. If you don't feel that way, this might not be an issue for you when listening to the Odin.

Negative changes/unresolved issues:

- Upper midrange - my issues with the upper midrange remain unresolved and barely affected. Listening to Missio's Loner album, the upper midrange presence makes the tracks unbearable to listen to. I then played some of Sofi Tukker's Soft Animals and the midrange forwardness does make her vocal sound way too dominant compared to the rest of the performance. I had a similar experience when I tried Moriarty's Fireday (Live) - the upper midrange peak just takes over the rest of the performance and becomes pretty much the only thing I can hear or focus on, and as a result perception of detail and separation suffer.

- Treble extension on the Socrates feels a bit better than that of the Stormbreaker.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Odin and Hugo 2

- The Hugo 2 is the DAC that Empire chose in order to tune the Odin, and as such it can be said that it is the "intended" source. It doubles down on the Odin's signature, further pushing out the upper midrange and lower treble. If you enjoy the Odin as is, it's a great source, if you want to "correct" its peaks, it's not a great one.
- It does have a very positive effect on the bass however where it tightens it to the point where it's practically perfectly in line with the midrange. The peak (to me) becomes unbearable to listen to for more than a few tracks.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Photo for proof:

 

[doctorjuggles]

That's a shame, but you need to be happy with it and if you're not, it's best to try something else.
Mad props to EE for being so understanding though - it's not like they won't be able to shift the unit with the demand being so high!

 

[Deferenz]

EE Odin closing thoughts

Well, I suppose this will have to be said at some point, so let's get it out of the way. I've spoken to EE and decided to return my Odin

After further listening and also trying it with the Hugo 2 to see if that adjusts the signature to what I find enjoyable, I found that the upper midrange is something I simply cannot deal with. I was wondering if this is just my perception of it or if there is something else going on here, so I went on Crinacle's graph tool and compared it to a few IEMs I've heard recently, or some that I generally enjoy and use as a reference for a tonality that appeals to me, and the Odin absolutely smashed their upper midrange in terms of raw quantity (around 2k more specifically).

An IEM who's upper midrange I found to be quite overdone is the MMR Homunculus - below is a graph of how the Homunculus compares too the Odin:



The Homunculus peaks slightly higher around 3k, but the Odin still has more upper mids all the way before that. It doesn't help either than the presentation of the midrange is rather cold and thin which makes it extremely unpleasant to listen to.

I think a good track that exemplifies that is K.Flay's High Enough - when she goes "I'm already high enough" the Odin feels like it bursts through my eardrums with the amount of upper midrange quantity.

I'm also not a big fan of the overall thinness of the midrange in relation to the warmer and slower sub-bass, which creates a partial incoherence to my ears.

I'll be fully honest here and say that I tried to Stockholm myself into loving the Odin really hard as EE really were extremely kind to me and I feel bad about disliking a product they've developed for so long and were so passionate about. Ultimately though, I have to be honest about what I heard as I have been in the past.

Either way, as I'm returning the unit I'll only be making some small comparisons in the future based off memory, but the Odin is an IEM that I simply cannot get behind or recommend

Your experience of the Odin is useful to know. It provides a bit of contrast to the mostly glowing reviews on the EE thread. I think I would need to demo these first rather than blind buy, and what you have said is definitely food for thought.

 

[mvvRAZ]

Your experience of the Odin is useful to know. It provides a bit of contrast to the mostly glowing reviews on the EE thread. I think I would need to demo these first rather than blind buy, and what you have said is definitely food for thought.

Ultimately it's not in the interest of Empire Ears for a whole bunch of people to buy an Odin based on the hype, be disappointed, and flood the forums with second hand units. IMHO the most optimal situation is where the sales aren't ultra disproportionately high, but the people who have them are happy

 

[Tristy]

EE Odin closing thoughts

Well, I suppose this will have to be said at some point, so let's get it out of the way. I've spoken to EE and decided to return my Odin

After further listening and also trying it with the Hugo 2 to see if that adjusts the signature to what I find enjoyable, I found that the upper midrange is something I simply cannot deal with. I was wondering if this is just my perception of it or if there is something else going on here, so I went on Crinacle's graph tool and compared it to a few IEMs I've heard recently, or some that I generally enjoy and use as a reference for a tonality that appeals to me, and the Odin absolutely smashed their upper midrange in terms of raw quantity (around 2k more specifically).

An IEM who's upper midrange I found to be quite overdone is the MMR Homunculus - below is a graph of how the Homunculus compares to the Odin:



The Homunculus (orange) peaks slightly higher around 3k, but the Odin (green) still has more upper mids all the way before that. It doesn't help either than the presentation of the midrange is rather cold and thin which makes it extremely unpleasant to listen to.

I think a good track that exemplifies that is K.Flay's High Enough - when she goes "I'm already high enough" the Odin feels like it bursts through my eardrums with the amount of upper midrange quantity.

I'm also not a big fan of the overall thinness of the midrange in relation to the warmer and slower sub-bass, which creates a partial incoherence to my ears.

I'll be fully honest here and say that I tried to Stockholm myself into loving the Odin really hard as EE really were extremely kind to me and I feel bad about disliking a product they've developed for so long and were so passionate about. Ultimately though, I have to be honest about what I heard as I have been in the past.

Either way, as I'm returning the unit I'll only be making some small comparisons in the future based off memory, but the Odin is an IEM that I simply cannot get behind or recommend

It’s funny that I hugely preferred the Homunculus on the Thummim / Homunculus tour haha it goes to show how varied people’s preferences are! Based off of your impressions and graph analysis Odin would suit my preferences. This is a strange old hobby.

 

[mvvRAZ]

It’s funny that I hugely preferred the
Homunculus on the thummim / homunculus tour haha it goes to show how varied people’s preferences are! Based off of your impressions and graph analysis Odin would suit my preferences. This is a strange old hobby.

It sure is the majority of the participants so far had the opposite experience. The Odin is a more mature version of the Homunculus, and sounds a bit thinner and colder overall, but is more spacious

 

[CANiSLAYu]

After further listening and also trying it with the Hugo 2 to see if that adjusts the signature to what I find enjoyable, I found that the upper midrange is something I simply cannot deal with. I was wondering if this is just my perception of it or if there is something else going on here, so I went on Crinacle's graph tool and compared it to a few IEMs I've heard recently, or some that I generally enjoy and use as a reference for a tonality that appeals to me, and the Odin absolutely smashed their upper midrange in terms of raw quantity (around 2k more specifically).

Interesting observation. No idea what it would mean for my personal preferences, but looking at Odin compared to my current favorite IEMs, Odin definitely has the most energy from 1-2k, though only by 2-3 db. Still interested to check it out, but definitely not going to blind buy, especially at that price!

 

[mvvRAZ]

Interesting observation. No idea what it would mean for my personal preferences, but looking at Odin compared to my current favorite IEMs, Odin definitely has the most energy from 1-2k, thought only by 2-3 db. Still interested to check it out, but definitely not going to blind buy, especially at that price!

It’s a relatively similar graph as the rest of your stuff, but as the IER Z1R tends to add some “hotness” to female vocals and makes them sound a bit thin/sharp, the Odin doubles down on that effect. I also found the texture of the IER Z1R to be more consistent throughout the FR, with much much better treble extension and control

 

[toaster]

Ultimately it's not in the interest of Empire Ears for a whole bunch of people to buy an Odin based on the hype, be disappointed, and flood the forums with second hand units. IMHO the most optimal situation is where the sales aren't ultra disproportionately high, but the people who have them are happy

This is a great point on all fronts.

 

[Rockwell75]

Homunculus on the thummim / homunculus tour haha it goes to show how varied people’s preferences are!

Yup. No matter how much good, even great, information is out there the best way to tell if something is right for you will always be try it for yourself and let your own ears be the judge.

 

[tawmizzzz]

RAZ has been awesome with answering some questions via PMs but figured I would share some insights here in case it helps others. I asked him to compare two top tier CIEMS in the Elysium & A18s.

“Bass and soundstage go to the 18S yes
Soundstage is pretty matched
Musicality - A18S has warmer bass and more pleasant treble, the elysium has more pleasant mids
Bass texture to the A18S, midrange texture to the elysium

all that I’m comparing to the custom elysium though.”

 

[mvvRAZ]

RAZ has been awesome with answering some questions via PMs but figured I would share some insights here in case it helps others. I asked him to compare two top tier CIEMS in the Elysium & A18s.

“Bass and soundstage go to the 18S yes
Soundstage is pretty matched
Musicality - A18S has warmer bass and more pleasant treble, the elysium has more pleasant mids
Bass texture to the A18S, midrange texture to the elysium

all that I’m comparing to the custom elysium though.”

I’ll be doing a more in depth comparison once I’ve received the Sultan as well and do an evaluation of the flagships from the past year or so

 

[CANiSLAYu]

I’ll be doing a more in depth comparison once I’ve received the Sultan as well and do an evaluation of the flagships from the past year or so

+1 for Sultan vs Z1R please

 

[aaf evo]

RAZ has been awesome with answering some questions via PMs but figured I would share some insights here in case it helps others. I asked him to compare two top tier CIEMS in the Elysium & A18s.

“Bass and soundstage go to the 18S yes
Soundstage is pretty matched
Musicality - A18S has warmer bass and more pleasant treble, the elysium has more pleasant mids
Bass texture to the A18S, midrange texture to the elysium

all that I’m comparing to the custom elysium though.”

Pretty much spot on, but I only heard the uni elysium but I’d agree with everything.