@Layman1 is always really happy and helpful when it comes to answering questions and he's heard much of the UM range, plus he published a review on here about the MEST
RAZ's TOTL review and rambles thread, on life support
- Thread starter mvvRAZ
- Start date
mvvRAZ
Headphoneus Supremus
As posted in Noble's thread, I received the Sultan early in the morning today, and 2 days in advance (FedEx really killed it this time around) - I've spent the entire day with it, clocking in about 8 hours already. That alone should say a lot about the Sultan considering the alternatives present, but either way - let's dive into all kinds of impressions! I've been particularly excited to type this up because I find it is a really exciting product that's mostly flown below the radar because of the complete absence of marketing on Noble's part - easily the most underhyped release of 2020 
(correct me if I'm wrong this is a fun game)
The packaging is pretty nice - you get a carry case, a pretty good 8 core cable, and a NANUK 903 case - I quite liked the last as my Peli is a bit too big for travelling and the one the Sultan came with might replace it on shorter trips when I travel with 2-3 sets instead of the usual 7+. My only qualm here was that all the included tips were exclusively foam, and I hate foam. I haven't used any of them either way, went straight to the blue Acoustune tips cause they match my faceplates quite nicely. Oh yeah, they fit well too, but who cares about that am I right
The build of the Sultan itself is super nice, the "Prestige" faceplate looks amazing, and the body is light, but also very solid and elegant. I much prefer it to the all acrylic construction of the Khan - this feels like more of a return to the Encore, but in a much more comfortable and ergonomic shape.
Either way, I'll leave some material for the proper review or else I'll end up having to copypasta this so let's get to some brief-ish impressions on the sound!
As a most general reference of what the Sultan is like, I'd pretty much call it the love child of the 64Audio A18S and the MMR Thummim
It has a W shaped tonality, with a boost in the bass (especially in the subs), very clear and open midrange, and brutally awesome, extremely well extended and airy treble. Truthfully speaking, the highs end up saving the Sultan the way they did in the case of the Thummim - if the treble wasn't so airy and extended you'd end up with this overly suffocated, much too intense signature.
In most of my reviews I like to dissect it as bass - mids - treble - technical ability, but in the case of the Sultan everything hangs in this super fine balance, so I'll kind of be all over the place for the next few paragraphs so please put your seatbelts on
The main issue I keep having with DD lows and BA mids is the aggressive mismatch between the texture of the two. I think I'm particularly sensitive to it, because I found it quite overly apparent in the FiR M5, Solaris 2020 and the EE Odin, all of which have been regarded very highly by the community. Mind you, I didn't mind the mismatch between the DD mids of the Elysium and the BA bass (even though the mismatch is pretty clear there too), so maybe I'm just full of crap
Either way, if you're as nutty about it as I am, the Sultan is good news - while the midrange isn't the most textured out there, it has decent texture for a BA, while the bass has mediocre texture for a DD (prioritising speed and punchiness instead), so you end up in this rather great no man's land, where the BAs don't sound like a full on BA, and the DD doesn't sound like a full on DD. Other than that, the Sultan has great subbass extension and presence, with moderate quantity (there's definitely a small bump above neutral)
The midrange of the Sultan is mostly neutral in the sense that it doesn't sound like it was sent all the way in the back, but it also doesn't have that warmth and texture that the mids of the Elysium, Thummim or Erl do. I think in the case of the Sultan that works especially well with the tuning of the treble, which is mostly focused in the upper registers, so you end up with this really clean and well separated midrange that at no point has any kind of sibilance, harshness or shoutyness. Vocals have good presence, with a small bias towards female vocals which have wonderful "extension" and a generally speaking euphonic presentation. I hear the lower mids at a similar level as the upper midrange which I'm also quite happy about - in most cases I'm not a big fan of lower midrange scoops.
A good example of the vocals sounding especially good on it would be Lana del Rey's Season of the Witch, but they manage to do that without sounding overly forward in something like Deap Vally's
The treble - oh man... let's just say that not only did Noble outdo themselves, they also put a large portion of the industry to shame lol. The Sultan's highs posses an extension that will make any treble head drool, with an extremely tasteful focus on the upper treble. They also balance sparkle and speed/control extremely well, not sounding harsh or dry at any point, but also being able to reproduce cymbals with great detail and precision. I also like that they didn't overload the entire treble region as that results in a lot of stuff being unlistenable despite the insane amount of detail it reproduces. Big thumbs up from me here
The Sultan is also very technical, and reproduces a soundstage that stretches in all directions. None of that intimacy - plain size and grandeur - me gusta. They retrieve a very good amount of detail, IMHO as a result of the top notch separation and treble extension. You can easily tell they're a TOTL through and through in that respect. Another big me gusta from me.
Final verdict? This is the Noble product I've been waiting for, AND I've had no problems with its sockets so far - what more could one dream of
(correct me if I'm wrong this is a fun game)The packaging is pretty nice - you get a carry case, a pretty good 8 core cable, and a NANUK 903 case - I quite liked the last as my Peli is a bit too big for travelling and the one the Sultan came with might replace it on shorter trips when I travel with 2-3 sets instead of the usual 7+. My only qualm here was that all the included tips were exclusively foam, and I hate foam. I haven't used any of them either way, went straight to the blue Acoustune tips cause they match my faceplates quite nicely. Oh yeah, they fit well too, but who cares about that am I right
The build of the Sultan itself is super nice, the "Prestige" faceplate looks amazing, and the body is light, but also very solid and elegant. I much prefer it to the all acrylic construction of the Khan - this feels like more of a return to the Encore, but in a much more comfortable and ergonomic shape.
Either way, I'll leave some material for the proper review or else I'll end up having to copypasta this so let's get to some brief-ish impressions on the sound!
As a most general reference of what the Sultan is like, I'd pretty much call it the love child of the 64Audio A18S and the MMR Thummim
It has a W shaped tonality, with a boost in the bass (especially in the subs), very clear and open midrange, and brutally awesome, extremely well extended and airy treble. Truthfully speaking, the highs end up saving the Sultan the way they did in the case of the Thummim - if the treble wasn't so airy and extended you'd end up with this overly suffocated, much too intense signature.
In most of my reviews I like to dissect it as bass - mids - treble - technical ability, but in the case of the Sultan everything hangs in this super fine balance, so I'll kind of be all over the place for the next few paragraphs so please put your seatbelts on
The main issue I keep having with DD lows and BA mids is the aggressive mismatch between the texture of the two. I think I'm particularly sensitive to it, because I found it quite overly apparent in the FiR M5, Solaris 2020 and the EE Odin, all of which have been regarded very highly by the community. Mind you, I didn't mind the mismatch between the DD mids of the Elysium and the BA bass (even though the mismatch is pretty clear there too), so maybe I'm just full of crap
Either way, if you're as nutty about it as I am, the Sultan is good news - while the midrange isn't the most textured out there, it has decent texture for a BA, while the bass has mediocre texture for a DD (prioritising speed and punchiness instead), so you end up in this rather great no man's land, where the BAs don't sound like a full on BA, and the DD doesn't sound like a full on DD. Other than that, the Sultan has great subbass extension and presence, with moderate quantity (there's definitely a small bump above neutral)
The midrange of the Sultan is mostly neutral in the sense that it doesn't sound like it was sent all the way in the back, but it also doesn't have that warmth and texture that the mids of the Elysium, Thummim or Erl do. I think in the case of the Sultan that works especially well with the tuning of the treble, which is mostly focused in the upper registers, so you end up with this really clean and well separated midrange that at no point has any kind of sibilance, harshness or shoutyness. Vocals have good presence, with a small bias towards female vocals which have wonderful "extension" and a generally speaking euphonic presentation. I hear the lower mids at a similar level as the upper midrange which I'm also quite happy about - in most cases I'm not a big fan of lower midrange scoops.
A good example of the vocals sounding especially good on it would be Lana del Rey's Season of the Witch, but they manage to do that without sounding overly forward in something like Deap Vally's
The treble - oh man... let's just say that not only did Noble outdo themselves, they also put a large portion of the industry to shame lol. The Sultan's highs posses an extension that will make any treble head drool, with an extremely tasteful focus on the upper treble. They also balance sparkle and speed/control extremely well, not sounding harsh or dry at any point, but also being able to reproduce cymbals with great detail and precision. I also like that they didn't overload the entire treble region as that results in a lot of stuff being unlistenable despite the insane amount of detail it reproduces. Big thumbs up from me here
The Sultan is also very technical, and reproduces a soundstage that stretches in all directions. None of that intimacy - plain size and grandeur - me gusta. They retrieve a very good amount of detail, IMHO as a result of the top notch separation and treble extension. You can easily tell they're a TOTL through and through in that respect. Another big me gusta from me.
Final verdict? This is the Noble product I've been waiting for, AND I've had no problems with its sockets so far - what more could one dream of
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They certainly look nice.As posted in Noble's thread, I received the Sultan early in the morning today, and 2 days in advance (FedEx really killed it this time around) - I've spent the entire day with it, clocking in about 8 hours already. That alone should say a lot about the Sultan considering the alternatives present, but either way - let's dive into all kinds of impressions! I've been particularly excited to type this up because I find it is a really exciting product that's mostly flown below the radar because of the complete absence of marketing on Noble's part - easily the most underhyped release of 2020
The packaging is pretty nice - you get a carry case, a pretty good 8 core cable, and a NANUK 903 case - I quite liked the last as my Peli is a bit too big for travelling and the one the Sultan came with might replace it on shorter trips when I travel with 2-3 sets instead of the usual 7+. My only qualm here was that all the included tips were exclusively foam, and I hate foam. I haven't used any of them either way, went straight to the blue Acoustune tips cause they match my faceplates quite nicely. Oh yeah, they fit well too, but who cares about that am I right
The build of the Sultan itself is super nice, the "Prestige" faceplate looks amazing, and the body is light, but also very solid and elegant. I much prefer it to the all acrylic construction of the Khan - this feels like more of a return to the Encore, but in a much more comfortable and ergonomic shape.
Either way, I'll leave some material for the proper review or else I'll end up having to copypasta this so let's get to some brief-ish impressions on the sound!
As a most general reference of what the Sultan is like, I'd pretty much call it the love child of the 64Audio A18S and the MMR Thummim
It has a W shaped tonality, with a boost in the bass (especially in the subs), very clear and open midrange, and brutally awesome, extremely well extended and airy treble. Truthfully speaking, the highs end up saving the Sultan the way they did in the case of the Thummim - if the treble wasn't so airy and extended you'd end up with this overly suffocated, much too intense signature.
In most of my reviews I like to dissect it as bass - mids - treble - technical ability, but in the case of the Sultan everything hangs in this super fine balance, so I'll kind of be all over the place for the next few paragraphs so please put your seatbelts on
The main issue I keep having with DD lows and BA mids is the aggressive mismatch between the texture of the two. I think I'm particularly sensitive to it, because I found it quite overly apparent in the FiR M5, Solaris 2020 and the EE Odin, all of which have been regarded very highly by the community. Mind you, I didn't mind the mismatch between the DD mids of the Elysium and the BA bass (even though the mismatch is pretty clear there too), so maybe I'm just full of ***
Either way, if you're as nutty about it as I am, the Sultan is good news - while the midrange isn't the most textured out there, it has decent texture for a BA, while the bass has mediocre texture for a DD (prioritising speed and punchiness instead), so you end up in this rather great no man's land, where the BAs don't sound like a full on BA, and the DD doesn't sound like a full on DD. Other than that, the Sultan has great subbass extension and presence, with moderate quantity (there's definitely a small bump above neutral)
The midrange of the Sultan is mostly neutral in the sense that it doesn't sound like it was sent all the way in the back, but it also doesn't have that warmth and texture that the mids of the Elysium, Thummim or Erl do. I think in the case of the Sultan that works especially well with the tuning of the treble, which is mostly focused in the upper registers, so you end up with this really clean and well separated midrange that at no point has any kind of sibilance, harshness or shoutyness. Vocals have good presence, with a small bias towards female vocals which have wonderful "extension" and a generally speaking euphonic presentation. I hear the lower mids at a similar level as the upper midrange which I'm also quite happy about - in most cases I'm not a big fan of lower midrange scoops.
A good example of the vocals sounding especially good on it would be Lana del Rey's Season of the Witch, but they manage to do that without sounding overly forward in something like Deap Vally's
The treble - oh man... let's just say that not only did Noble outdo themselves, they also put a large portion of the industry to shame lol. The Sultan's highs posses an extension that will make any treble head drool, with an extremely tasteful focus on the upper treble. They also balance sparkle and speed/control extremely well, not sounding harsh or dry at any point, but also being able to reproduce cymbals with great detail and precision. I also like that they didn't overload the entire treble region as that results in a lot of stuff being unlistenable despite the insane amount of detail it reproduces. Big thumbs up from me here
The Sultan is also very technical, and reproduces a soundstage that stretches in all directions. None of that intimacy - plain size and grandeur - me gusta. They retrieve a very good amount of detail, IMHO as a result of the top notch separation and treble extension. You can easily tell they're a TOTL through and through in that respect. Another big me gusta from me.
Final verdict? This is the Noble product I've been waiting for, AND I've had no problems with its sockets so far - what more could one dream of
Nice impressions. Sultan sounds like a contender. I thought the blue was HK only. Is that where you got it from?
mvvRAZ
Headphoneus Supremus
No, my blue faceplate is actually a residue from the blue pinecone material that was featured on one of their Prestige Khans - they simply used that and put it on my Sultan (at an extra charge of 200$). I really like 1 of 1 editions and the look of their Prestige IEMs, so that was a good way to not get skinned alive while also getting a part of that action
Liberatus
100+ Head-Fier
As posted in Noble's thread, I received the Sultan early in the morning today, and 2 days in advance (FedEx really killed it this time around) - I've spent the entire day with it, clocking in about 8 hours already. That alone should say a lot about the Sultan considering the alternatives present, but either way - let's dive into all kinds of impressions! I've been particularly excited to type this up because I find it is a really exciting product that's mostly flown below the radar because of the complete absence of marketing on Noble's part - easily the most underhyped release of 2020
The packaging is pretty nice - you get a carry case, a pretty good 8 core cable, and a NANUK 903 case - I quite liked the last as my Peli is a bit too big for travelling and the one the Sultan came with might replace it on shorter trips when I travel with 2-3 sets instead of the usual 7+. My only qualm here was that all the included tips were exclusively foam, and I hate foam. I haven't used any of them either way, went straight to the blue Acoustune tips cause they match my faceplates quite nicely. Oh yeah, they fit well too, but who cares about that am I right
The build of the Sultan itself is super nice, the "Prestige" faceplate looks amazing, and the body is light, but also very solid and elegant. I much prefer it to the all acrylic construction of the Khan - this feels like more of a return to the Encore, but in a much more comfortable and ergonomic shape.
Either way, I'll leave some material for the proper review or else I'll end up having to copypasta this so let's get to some brief-ish impressions on the sound!
As a most general reference of what the Sultan is like, I'd pretty much call it the love child of the 64Audio A18S and the MMR Thummim
It has a W shaped tonality, with a boost in the bass (especially in the subs), very clear and open midrange, and brutally awesome, extremely well extended and airy treble. Truthfully speaking, the highs end up saving the Sultan the way they did in the case of the Thummim - if the treble wasn't so airy and extended you'd end up with this overly suffocated, much too intense signature.
In most of my reviews I like to dissect it as bass - mids - treble - technical ability, but in the case of the Sultan everything hangs in this super fine balance, so I'll kind of be all over the place for the next few paragraphs so please put your seatbelts on
The main issue I keep having with DD lows and BA mids is the aggressive mismatch between the texture of the two. I think I'm particularly sensitive to it, because I found it quite overly apparent in the FiR M5, Solaris 2020 and the EE Odin, all of which have been regarded very highly by the community. Mind you, I didn't mind the mismatch between the DD mids of the Elysium and the BA bass (even though the mismatch is pretty clear there too), so maybe I'm just full of ***
Either way, if you're as nutty about it as I am, the Sultan is good news - while the midrange isn't the most textured out there, it has decent texture for a BA, while the bass has mediocre texture for a DD (prioritising speed and punchiness instead), so you end up in this rather great no man's land, where the BAs don't sound like a full on BA, and the DD doesn't sound like a full on DD. Other than that, the Sultan has great subbass extension and presence, with moderate quantity (there's definitely a small bump above neutral)
The midrange of the Sultan is mostly neutral in the sense that it doesn't sound like it was sent all the way in the back, but it also doesn't have that warmth and texture that the mids of the Elysium, Thummim or Erl do. I think in the case of the Sultan that works especially well with the tuning of the treble, which is mostly focused in the upper registers, so you end up with this really clean and well separated midrange that at no point has any kind of sibilance, harshness or shoutyness. Vocals have good presence, with a small bias towards female vocals which have wonderful "extension" and a generally speaking euphonic presentation. I hear the lower mids at a similar level as the upper midrange which I'm also quite happy about - in most cases I'm not a big fan of lower midrange scoops.
A good example of the vocals sounding especially good on it would be Lana del Rey's Season of the Witch, but they manage to do that without sounding overly forward in something like Deap Vally's
The treble - oh man... let's just say that not only did Noble outdo themselves, they also put a large portion of the industry to shame lol. The Sultan's highs posses an extension that will make any treble head drool, with an extremely tasteful focus on the upper treble. They also balance sparkle and speed/control extremely well, not sounding harsh or dry at any point, but also being able to reproduce cymbals with great detail and precision. I also like that they didn't overload the entire treble region as that results in a lot of stuff being unlistenable despite the insane amount of detail it reproduces. Big thumbs up from me here
The Sultan is also very technical, and reproduces a soundstage that stretches in all directions. None of that intimacy - plain size and grandeur - me gusta. They retrieve a very good amount of detail, IMHO as a result of the top notch separation and treble extension. You can easily tell they're a TOTL through and through in that respect. Another big me gusta from me.
Final verdict? This is the Noble product I've been waiting for, AND I've had no problems with its sockets so far - what more could one dream of
Do you think Thummim is going to be getting a shot gun passenger next to the driver seat or is the Noble more so going to be sitting in the back seats with other IEMs while the Thummim drives most of your listening time still?
Where would you say they key similarities are between the Thummim and Sultan?
& What are the key differences to your experience?
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mvvRAZ
Headphoneus Supremus
Predicting actual listening times is a bit tough - there have been stuff that I've absolutely loved that I've simply ended up spending little time with, and others that didn't absolutely win me over at first that ended up being an almost daily listen. As a super rough estimate I'd say the time that the Thummim, A18S and Sultan will be getting will be pretty even Steven, potentially retiring the Elysium somewhat in the process (I still love that IEM deeply but I've also spent so much with it that it's time for it to go on a well deserved break)
Similarities and differences:
1. Treble - big time. They have an insanely similar treble presentation, giving you the sense of certain enormity in the staging.
2. W shaped signature - they're both Ws, where the Sultan is more of a w, and the Thummim is a W.
3. Exaggeration - a certain level of exaggeration comes with every W shaped IEM, but the Thummim takes that and turns it up to 12. The Sultan is a bit more contained and controlled.
4. More, bolder, more DD like bass on the Thummim. More enjoyable and flatter midbass on the Sultan as the Thummim can be a touch much if you're to pull it out first thing in the morning
5. Better clarity on the Sultan
6. Better texture on the Thummim
All in all you can see the two are pretty matched. I'd say that the Thummim takes everything a bit further, which results in a very different IEM. I think that calling the Sultan a mini Thummim is a big understatement (whereas the AAW Canary for example is a straight up mini Thummim) and doesn't give enough credit to the Sultan, which as its own thing is an amazing piece of engineering
All in all though, the Sultan is a touch thinner, lighter and clearer while the Thummim is bolder, more textured and exaggerated. Both have incredible staging, the Thummim pulls ahead a little. The Sultan having a bit less thickness/weight ends up delivering on some more detail however.
The 4 TOTLs to date that have made me go "wow" are the custom Elysium, A18S, Thummim and the newly acquired Sultan. They're all incredible at what they do, and to me, the most worthwhile purchases I've made over the past year or so (a bit early to say if the Sultan will be worthwhile obviously, but when I like something this much this early it's generally a good sign
) Also, this should go without saying, but do understand that when I'm evaluating something like the Sultan, which matches my preferences pretty much spot on perfectly, there will be some inherent bias no matter what I do or how critical my approach is
Liberatus
100+ Head-Fier
Predicting actual listening times is a bit tough - there have been stuff that I've absolutely loved that I've simply ended up spending little time with, and others that didn't absolutely win me over at first that ended up being an almost daily listen. As a super rough estimate I'd say the time that the Thummim, A18S and Sultan will be getting will be pretty even Steven, potentially retiring the Elysium somewhat in the process (I still love that IEM deeply but I've also spent so much with it that it's time for it to go on a well deserved break)
Similarities and differences:
1. Treble - big time. They have an insanely similar treble presentation, giving you the sense of certain enormity in the staging.
2. W shaped signature - they're both Ws, where the Sultan is more of a w, and the Thummim is a W.
3. Exaggeration - a certain level of exaggeration comes with every W shaped IEM, but the Thummim takes that and turns it up to 12. The Sultan is a bit more contained and controlled.
4. More, bolder, more DD like bass on the Thummim. More enjoyable and flatter midbass on the Sultan as the Thummim can be a touch much if you're to pull it out first thing in the morning
5. Better clarity on the Sultan
6. Better texture on the Thummim
All in all you can see the two are pretty matched. I'd say that the Thummim takes everything a bit further, which results in a very different IEM. I think that calling the Sultan a mini Thummim is a big understatement (whereas the AAW Canary for example is a straight up mini Thummim) and doesn't give enough credit to the Sultan, which as its own thing is an amazing piece of engineering
All in all though, the Sultan is a touch thinner, lighter and clearer while the Thummim is bolder, more textured and exaggerated. Both have incredible staging, the Thummim pulls ahead a little. The Sultan having a bit less thickness/weight ends up delivering on some more detail however.
The 4 TOTLs to date that have made me go "wow" are the custom Elysium, A18S, Thummim and the newly acquired Sultan. They're all incredible at what they do, and to me, the most worthwhile purchases I've made over the past year or so (a bit early to say if the Sultan will be worthwhile obviously, but when I like something this much this early it's generally a good sign
Also, this should go without saying, but do understand that when I'm evaluating something like the Sultan, which matches my preferences pretty much spot on perfectly, there will be some inherent bias no matter what I do or how critical my approach is
Thanks for the comparison,
I actually snagged a Sultan last week, blind because it was a decent deal and if I'm not a big fan I think others will take it easily. But given I prefer the design over the Thummim (and if I really like it I can get a custom she'll which is a really nice feature) so I felt comfortable just grabbing one. Vs the Thummim I've been (Im)patiently waiting for a demo to see if I love it's sound despite it's design. Also there's a fair price difference on them also.
I was supposed to get it already but postal delays happened. Actually thought I was going to get mine before you got yours but looks like your FedEx team crossed the finish line first! Haha.
I might actually be able to compare them directly myself now whenever I can get a Thummim on demo
Which would you say has the better vocals and guitar sound reproduction?
Does the sultana light DDs feel like they're lacking? I'm a huge dd fan and prefer the sound so much more then even the best BAs, I'm just too used to the air of real kick drums and percussion instruments. So that's the only thing I've read that worries me about the sultan. Is the low end now, which I thought with a DD would be where I would be happy with
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mvvRAZ
Headphoneus Supremus
The sultan I’d say is better with female vocals while the thummim is better with male vocals and higher register male vocals as well (something like Eminem’s Kamikaze album for example)
I don’t think you’d be disappointed with the Sultan’s bass honestly, it certainly delivers on weight and impact. @SeeSax actually found that the bass on the Sultan and Thummim is very similar, almost identical - my initial impressions were slightly different, but on certain tracks I can absolutely see what he means.
I don’t know if you’ve heard the IER Z1R but that’s my reference for DD bass - slow decay, amazing subbass extension - the Sultan goes part of the way in the sense that it has that subbass, but doesn’t quite decay as slowly
The Thummim is the looser DD of the two imo - more impact, more slam, slower decay, more subbass - all of them being qualities of a DD that’s allowed to do its thing. I think within the signature of the sultan, the sultan’s bass is the one that makes more sense. Within the signature of the thummim, the thummim’s bass makes more sense haha - each one being kinda perfect in its own way
I look forward to your impressions of the Sultan! Please don’t hesitate to post them in here
As I was going through the burn-in process on my Odin, the upper midrange was hot sounding with certain recordings, but not on others. I kept the burn-in going until I reached 200 hours, and by this time I felt the upper midrange had settled. I’m wondering since in an earlier post you commented on your dubious nature towards physical changes occurring with extended play, how many hours did you have when you were making your assessment?
For the record I used two daps during my early listening, the AK240SS and the ZX300, both playing hi res material, primarily rock and jazz. No EQ.
I also wanted to commend you on your notion that high end daps may offer a poor return on investment compared to mid-tier daps. Your suggestion of apportioning a 3:1 budget with the IEM taking the lead, was, quite interesting to read. In high end home audio this notion would be viewed as anathema since the general belief there is it is the source that matters most, you can never improve upon the source with better gear downstream.
But I tend to agree with your idea about the value of flagship daps. Using an IEM as the transducer to discern the subtleties of enhanced resolution is harder to do than with high performance loudspeakers, in my view. So is it really necessary to spend 3K vs 1K for a dap driving IEMs only? Perhaps others can chime in ...
Anyway, new to this thread, some very interesting reading for me.
mvvRAZ
Headphoneus Supremus
The Odin's upper midrange doesn't have any pronounced peaks, but it is very elevated around 2k, which ends up sounding hot with mostly anything modern, or high register female vocals, and especially high register male vocals (something like IAMJJ - Different Kind of Blues). I kept trying the Odin for the first 4-5 days over and over again, but I really wasn't enjoying what I was hearing.
I've stated before I'm not big on burn in, and I believe that the changes one experiences are much more as a result of source or tip rolling as opposed to the IEM fundamentally changing what it sounds like - I had the opposite belief previously - what change my mind was the VE Elysium
I purchased it as a custom for the first time an year ago, but then decided I wanted a second design, so I purchased it again 2 months later - I had two units with me, one burned in, one fresh out of the factory and they sounded as identical as any two units could sound. The Elysium has a DD, a BA and 2 estats in it, so it's not even a case of a full BA IEM not being affected by burn in
I understand the case that could be made that everything should be given the benefit of the doubt, and run in for days or weeks, but for the time being I'm trying to be some weird hybrid between a consumer and a reviewer - I pay for everything I own and review (unless it's a demo that I'm returning), so if I don't love it out of the box I choose to go for damage control as opposed to trying to make myself like it. Jack and EE were extremely nice to me, so I gave the Odin way more time than I would've given an IEM I dislike normally, but no matter how I approached it, I couldn't make it come even close to working for me.
All in all though, I'm quite explicit about not believing that driver burn in the case of IEMs is a thing, so if that is a fundamental clash with your own views, please feel free to disregard my impressions
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Now, on sources - I think this is somewhat linked to burning in IEMs, at least one some level, in the sense that an IEM - from an engineering standpoint - is a way simpler device than a headphone, and even less so a full sized speaker. Most manufacturers work with BA/DD/Est drivers that have been developed from them, but realistically they're doing design and implementation. When you compare this with the magnitude of a project like the LCD 4, Utopia, Empyrean or any of the other full sized headphones, you can kinda see why IEM companies can pump out new TOTLs almost yearly, whereas the Focal Utopia was released in 2016 and they're still just as relevant today. The only IEMs I can think of that are still decently active on the market after 3-4 years are the U18t and Fourte, but if you've tried to sell a U18t lately you'll know that getting more than 40% of retail back is a bitch
The way I see it (and I might be completely wrong about headphones but that's as far as my understanding of them goes), when you buy an IEM you can realistically plug it into your phone (or like a PAW S1 for 170$), and already get a really good idea of what it sounds like and what it can do. Buying a headphone is pretty much the start of the experience as only then do you start building the rest of the set up, including amps, DACs and heaven knows what else. Headphones tend to be way more demanding and generally dependent on synergy whereas IEMs to me are a bit more of a "plug and play" situation.
The Odin's upper midrange doesn't have any pronounced peaks, but it is very elevated around 2k, which ends up sounding hot with mostly anything modern, or high register female vocals, and especially high register male vocals (something like IAMJJ - Different Kind of Blues). I kept trying the Odin for the first 4-5 days over and over again, but I really wasn't enjoying what I was hearing.
I've stated before I'm not big on burn in, and I believe that the changes one experiences are much more as a result of source or tip rolling as opposed to the IEM fundamentally changing what it sounds like - I had the opposite belief previously - what change my mind was the VE Elysium
I purchased it as a custom for the first time an year ago, but then decided I wanted a second design, so I purchased it again 2 months later - I had two units with me, one burned in, one fresh out of the factory and they sounded as identical as any two units could sound. The Elysium has a DD, a BA and 2 estats in it, so it's not even a case of a full BA IEM not being affected by burn in
I understand the case that could be made that everything should be given the benefit of the doubt, and run in for days or weeks, but for the time being I'm trying to be some weird hybrid between a consumer and a reviewer - I pay for everything I own and review (unless it's a demo that I'm returning), so if I don't love it out of the box I choose to go for damage control as opposed to trying to make myself like it. Jack and EE were extremely nice to me, so I gave the Odin way more time than I would've given an IEM I dislike normally, but no matter how I approached it, I couldn't make it come even close to working for me.
All in all though, I'm quite explicit about not believing that driver burn in the case of IEMs is a thing, so if that is a fundamental clash with your own views, please feel free to disregard my impressions
____________________________________________________________________________________
Now, on sources - I think this is somewhat linked to burning in IEMs, at least one some level, in the sense that an IEM - from an engineering standpoint - is a way simpler device than a headphone, and even less so a full sized speaker. Most manufacturers work with BA/DD/Est drivers that have been developed from them, but realistically they're doing design and implementation. When you compare this with the magnitude of a project like the LCD 4, Utopia, Empyrean or any of the other full sized headphones, you can kinda see why IEM companies can pump out new TOTLs almost yearly, whereas the Focal Utopia was released in 2016 and they're still just as relevant today. The only IEMs I can think of that are still decently active on the market after 3-4 years are the U18t and Fourte, but if you've tried to sell a U18t lately you'll know that getting more than 40% of retail back is a bitch
The way I see it (and I might be completely wrong about headphones but that's as far as my understanding of them goes), when you buy an IEM you can realistically plug it into your phone (or like a PAW S1 for 170$), and already get a really good idea of what it sounds like and what it can do. Buying a headphone is pretty much the start of the experience as only then do you start building the rest of the set up, including amps, DACs and heaven knows what else. Headphones tend to be way more demanding and generally dependent on synergy whereas IEMs to me are a bit more of a "plug and play" situation.
That’s an interesting experience with the Elysium. I would expect there to be a difference between the two, but there are cases where manufacturers do some burn-in to confirm a working sample before packaging and shipment, so perhaps that explains it. Additionally, some parts need no burn-in while others require a lot ... high end capacitors come to mind, as well as the dielectric on some cables. It is a small sample you’re deriving your data from, but we can agree to disagree on this matter.
mvvRAZ
Headphoneus Supremus
I personally haven't experienced burn in with any IEM that I've owned - and in the times that I have, it's easily attributable to brain burn considering just how flawed we are as an animal haha.
Regardless though, even if the shoutyness was to disappear, I'd still have several issues with the Odin's upper midrange, especially with how forward and in your face it is. Not only that, the entire midrange remains very thin and shrill, and to my ears it doesn't match the texture and decay of the bass.
To add to that, I mentioned that the Odin does sound pretty nice with the jazz that I listen to, but the majority of my alt rock, pop, rap and hip hop were plain unlistenable on it - to get it to where I more or less enjoy it the burn in would need to shave off several entire decibels from the upper midrange, and realistically that can't happen, especially since you can't see the effects of burn on any FR graph.
If I had a small issue in some aspect of the Odin I'd try and see if I can correct it, but throwing 3400$ at something that I dislike in almost every way is just silly
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