pearljam50000
1000+ Head-Fier
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PS1000 Impressions Thread
- Thread starter dmac03
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Sonic Defender
Headphoneus Supremus
I very much doubt that I would like the etched hyper realism sound (based on the hundreds of impressions/reviews I have read). Not to mention, I only have an Asgard 2 which I doubt would get me there with the 800. I can listen to an 800 at a local audio shop, but they have it hooked up to much more gutsy amplification than I can afford at this point. Thanks for the thought.
HPiper
Headphoneus Supremus
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Wasn't there a if you had to pick one can thread a while ago here.
My favourite by a good margin is the SR-009/KGSSHV combination. Works with absolutely everything and if I could only keep one, it would be them. Next up are the LCD-X and SR-007Mk1s.
rgs9200m
Headphoneus Supremus
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Strange, I also had PS1000 twice because there was something nicely profound about them but in the end, just too many nasty surprises from time to time in overdone lows and some screaming highs.
Both are sold. Still like my GS a lot.
Both are sold. Still like my GS a lot.
Overdone lows? That's why I never could fully enjoy the GS1000...mid bass was too much...treble is about the same to my ears with a bit more for the GS1000s...most "U" shaped Grados IMO (and measurements back this up). Imaging definitely goes to the PS1000s and comfort to the GS1000s.
Justin_Time
500+ Head-Fier
At the risk of antagonizing boith sides, I believe that both camps (BlackstoneJD and Sonic Defender) are both right--partially--about the PS1000's sound neutrality and the role of measurements.
1. I have been dabbling in Audio for over 35 years now and one thing I know for certain: no audio gears (DAC, amps, cables, headphones...) are perfect or prfectly neutral or completely transparent, least of all tranducers like speakers and headphones. The HD800, LCD3, TH-900, SR 007 Mk 1, HE-5 and PS1000 are all flawed in their own way, and NOTperfectly neutral.
2. Measurements, especially on tranducers, are useful in telling general things about a component but they are only a starting point, a guide if you will. In the 70s, Julian Hirsh (SP?) writingt for a very popular but now defunct audio magazine tried very hard but failed to convince people that two pieces of equipment that measured the same sounded the same. Human ears apparently can pick up minute cues in the frequencies and phase responses that are not obvious from measurements. Worse, because of human hearing, an amp for example that measures completely flat sounds anemic in the bass! For the bass to sound "normal' a slight deviation from flat is necesary. So as I said, measurements are useful but only as a guide not as a definitive judge.
3. When we put together DAC, amps, cable and headpohones, these components interact with one another differently depending on a variety of things, impedance being only one of them. So a compnent, e.g. the PS1000, whether it is neutral or not, will not sound exactly the same in two different systems
Given above understanding, how the heck do we knoiw what a single component like the PS1000 sounds like? For me, I get a general idea of how each component "sounds" like by listening to a combination of many DAC, amps, cable and headphones. It is an exhausting experience but at the end, the "intrisic sound" of each component, something that you hear consistenly from a component regardless of the system it is in, would emerge.
With the DACs, cables, and amps that I own (see my profile) it was very apparent to me that the voicing of the PS1000 was toward a slightlyt boomy bass and brightness in the high frequencies. But with appropriate components, the PS1000 is capable of a glorious sound that I really love.
Several specific things may have contributed to how people reacted to the sound of the PS1000:
1. Some people are not as sensitive as others to the high fequencies, naturally or accidentally--my buddy in Dallas attended too many concerts by the Ramones and Kiss and now cannot hear anything above 10K or so...
2. If you have excellent amps like the HeadRomm GS-X Mk2 (and to a lesser extent the Bakoon HPA-21, Woo WA5 and EAR HP-4) with extended but exceptionally smooth high frequencies and very clean transients, you will also not hear the trouble in the trebles with the PS1000 either.
3. On the opposite pole, if you use the MAD Ear+ HD with forward midrange but truncated high frequencies or the Bryston (otherwise an excellent amp) with an oddly dull midrange and upper-midrange, you will not hear any harshness with the PS1000 either.
I hope this helps explain some of the differences of opinion about the PS1000. I love these cans which are capable of producing uniquely musical sound with the right associated components but I will not ever claim that they are perfectly neutral or transparent, nor will I ever rely solely on measurement to select headphones for myself. With apologies to Robert Heinlein, Like the moon, the PS1000 is a harsh mistress.
Cheers!
1. I have been dabbling in Audio for over 35 years now and one thing I know for certain: no audio gears (DAC, amps, cables, headphones...) are perfect or prfectly neutral or completely transparent, least of all tranducers like speakers and headphones. The HD800, LCD3, TH-900, SR 007 Mk 1, HE-5 and PS1000 are all flawed in their own way, and NOTperfectly neutral.
2. Measurements, especially on tranducers, are useful in telling general things about a component but they are only a starting point, a guide if you will. In the 70s, Julian Hirsh (SP?) writingt for a very popular but now defunct audio magazine tried very hard but failed to convince people that two pieces of equipment that measured the same sounded the same. Human ears apparently can pick up minute cues in the frequencies and phase responses that are not obvious from measurements. Worse, because of human hearing, an amp for example that measures completely flat sounds anemic in the bass! For the bass to sound "normal' a slight deviation from flat is necesary. So as I said, measurements are useful but only as a guide not as a definitive judge.
3. When we put together DAC, amps, cable and headpohones, these components interact with one another differently depending on a variety of things, impedance being only one of them. So a compnent, e.g. the PS1000, whether it is neutral or not, will not sound exactly the same in two different systems
Given above understanding, how the heck do we knoiw what a single component like the PS1000 sounds like? For me, I get a general idea of how each component "sounds" like by listening to a combination of many DAC, amps, cable and headphones. It is an exhausting experience but at the end, the "intrisic sound" of each component, something that you hear consistenly from a component regardless of the system it is in, would emerge.
With the DACs, cables, and amps that I own (see my profile) it was very apparent to me that the voicing of the PS1000 was toward a slightlyt boomy bass and brightness in the high frequencies. But with appropriate components, the PS1000 is capable of a glorious sound that I really love.
Several specific things may have contributed to how people reacted to the sound of the PS1000:
1. Some people are not as sensitive as others to the high fequencies, naturally or accidentally--my buddy in Dallas attended too many concerts by the Ramones and Kiss and now cannot hear anything above 10K or so...
2. If you have excellent amps like the HeadRomm GS-X Mk2 (and to a lesser extent the Bakoon HPA-21, Woo WA5 and EAR HP-4) with extended but exceptionally smooth high frequencies and very clean transients, you will also not hear the trouble in the trebles with the PS1000 either.
3. On the opposite pole, if you use the MAD Ear+ HD with forward midrange but truncated high frequencies or the Bryston (otherwise an excellent amp) with an oddly dull midrange and upper-midrange, you will not hear any harshness with the PS1000 either.
I hope this helps explain some of the differences of opinion about the PS1000. I love these cans which are capable of producing uniquely musical sound with the right associated components but I will not ever claim that they are perfectly neutral or transparent, nor will I ever rely solely on measurement to select headphones for myself. With apologies to Robert Heinlein, Like the moon, the PS1000 is a harsh mistress.
Cheers!
bbophead
Headphoneus Supremus
"I hope this helps explain some of the differences of opinion about the PS1000. I love these cans which are capable of producing uniquely musical sound with the right associated components but I will not ever claim that they are perfectly neutral or transparent, nor will I ever rely solely on measurement to select headphones for myself. With apologies to Robert Heinlein, Like the moon, the PS1000 is a harsh mistress."
Seems like that could go for any headphones including the SOTAs of Senn, Aud, BD, AKG, etc..
Seems like that could go for any headphones including the SOTAs of Senn, Aud, BD, AKG, etc..
stacker45
Headphoneus Supremus
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Personally, I couldn't care less about graphs, and, even if they're were such a thing as perfectly neutral headphones, they represent only one of the many factors that come into play when it comes to sound reproduction. Source, preamp, amp, even cables, to some extent, will all have they're own sound signatures.
So, that being said, system synergy, is where it's at for me, even if the frequency response looks like the ECG of someone who's having a heart attack, I don't care, as long as it sounds good to me.
Oh!, and by the way, the PS1000 are THE best sounding headphones on the planet, period, and if I ever see one of you guys at a meet, remind me to show you my tatoo!.
So, that being said, system synergy, is where it's at for me, even if the frequency response looks like the ECG of someone who's having a heart attack, I don't care, as long as it sounds good to me.
Oh!, and by the way, the PS1000 are THE best sounding headphones on the planet, period, and if I ever see one of you guys at a meet, remind me to show you my tatoo!.
Focker
Headphoneus Supremus
+11
As I've always said, I'm glad for any data we have on headphones, but an FR graph has little to no bearing on what headphones I buy. My ears/brain love Grados, and that's good enough for my wallet
As I've always said, I'm glad for any data we have on headphones, but an FR graph has little to no bearing on what headphones I buy. My ears/brain love Grados, and that's good enough for my wallet
Justin_Time
500+ Head-Fier
+11
As I've always said, I'm glad for any data we have on headphones, but an FR graph has little to no bearing on what headphones I buy. My ears/brain love Grados, and that's good enough for my wallet
Like you, I rely on my ears as the final judge, but I did find the Frequency Response Graph very helpful as a starting point for the selection of the amp and cable I want to use.
One look at the PS1000 FR, I knew immediately to select an amp like the GS-X Mk2 with silky smooth transient and high frequencies and OCC copper--not silver--to get the best sound out of the Grado PS 10000.
Of course my ears remain the final judge, about that I could not agree with you more.
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