Orthodynamic Roundup
Oct 29, 2010 at 11:51 PM Post #15,601 of 27,138
Well that was a bust. A torn trace to be precise.
 
It's just as well. These magnets were in such bad shape that i would have never been able to completely cure it's problems without disassembling the driver. Which i have done.
 
The good news: You can open up an MM1000 driver and take a look if you feel like replacing several rivets, potentially with screws. The membrane is attached to the rear panel with silicone adhesive.
 
The damping pad is glued to the front panel and magnets so well that i doubt i can shift it without destroying it. I'm guessing/hoping that only the loose plating on the back magnet was really causing a problem.
 
I had to peel it back.
 
The bad news: I don't know if i can retension this properly.
 
Oct 30, 2010 at 12:23 AM Post #15,602 of 27,138
how do we believe you without pictures? fairy tales and toad stools!! ..dB
wink.gif

 
Oct 30, 2010 at 12:59 AM Post #15,604 of 27,138


Quote:
how do we believe you without pictures? fairy tales and toad stools!! ..dB
wink.gif

 
What i found when i peeled back the membrane:
 

 
The blue you see is the masking tape i used to protect the magnets from flying metal shavings while drilling.
 
I peeled off the rest of the loose plating and then used several feet of blue tape to pull off the caked on oxide and errant bits of plating.
 

 
I've since painted over the bare neodymium with black nail polish but i haven't taken a picture of that, or of the front piece.
 
From outside the driver the damping pad looks like the sort of paper we sometimes see on headphone earcup vents - up close it's more of a tough mat of whatever sort of nonwoven fabric it is.
 
Notably, it does not seal off the vents - air can still rush around it top and bottom, so perhaps it's just there to protect us from excess treble?
 
I'm done with this horror for the night. I do wonder if I'm going to end up waiting for a single mm1k panel to show up on ebay now. Perhaps the one i have that works.
 
Oct 30, 2010 at 1:29 AM Post #15,605 of 27,138
I have some confidence that it will work. Seeing the posts on tearing into an ortho driver to reconnect a trace sounds many times more daunting than scraping off some oxide from a magnet.
 
How did you decide on using nail polish for protecting the magnets? I'm not 100% on that reasoning.
 
I wish I didn't have to do this on my MM-700's now, seeing as this appears to be the only way.
 
 
Way back when, I was searching the pits of the interwebs to find the problem for my rattle-y Monsoons, and I found an ancient thread on some website that probably doesn't exist anymore, but there was a guy who disassembled the Monsoon driver and realized that something on the magnets (the plating, as it seems) was causing the rattle. All he did was scrape the rest off and then stuck the two sides back together and they worked, so I remember.
 
As far as I can tell, this appears to be one of the few picture of disassembled and repaired Monsoons on the internets.
 
Oct 30, 2010 at 2:31 AM Post #15,606 of 27,138
I settled on nail polish because it's the only brush-on enamel i have.
 
i have vague memories of neodymium magnets with an enamel coating rather than plating, so i figured it wasn't a terrible idea.
 
If it turns out to not work well at all, I can remove it with acetone. I'm under no delusion that it will really protect the magnets long term - i think these are now strictly short-term magnets and the only long-term solution is magnet replacement. Which i'm unlikely to do.
 
Or maybe now that they are cut off from oxygen they will last several more years. Who knows.
 
There are various places to buy properly polarized 2"x1/8"x3/16" magnets. The problem is the cost - often $6/ea or so. Specialty item, you know.
 
I think the repaired orthos we've seen were relatively easy because they were nontensioned, or because they were fixed to frames that maintained their tension. This monsoon membrane was taut when i opened the driver, and is now loose.
 
Oct 30, 2010 at 1:03 PM Post #15,608 of 27,138
All right, it's time to post the orthodynamicization of my Grandfather's old Realistic Nova Pros.
 
I have no ideas if these suckers ever sounded good, but I suspect not.  I found them in the workshop, where my Grandfather had been using them for ear mufflers--he had sliced the cord off at the cups and the drivers were half ripped out.  The cups, pads, and headband were in great shape, though, so I took them apart to see if there was anything that could be done for them.
 
There were a few challenges.  The cups are ported, but there weren't any holes in the baffle.  The biggest issue is the fact that the cups are enormous, especially for a relatively small planar driver.
 
The good news: the holes in the baffle are the perfect size to fit the holes of the SFI drivers, but small enough that they could be glued in place, sealed to the baffle.
 
So here's what I tried:
 
First, I needed to shrink that cup without blocking the ports and without adding tons of weight.  I settled on some closed-cell weather stripping tape, with some blu-tack covering the now non-functional volume controls.  I used three strips, one flat and the others along the angled sides.  I covered the flat one with a piece of felt to prevent too much reflection back into the driver.  These cups don't need as much dampening as some, since they are such heavy-gauge plastic, but I figure the weather stripping should also prevent any resonance problems at the same time.
 

 
For the baffles, I started by drilling two very small port holes.  After that, I filled the gaps along the edge with blutack for dampening, then attached the driver with contact cement.  I added some blutack around the driver for good measure and to make sure there weren't any additional gaps for air to get through.  I filled any other cable gaps with more blutack, then wired up the drivers using the original cables between the drivers, and making the main cable with a gold-plated headphone extension cable.
 

 
I covered the bare drivers with extremely thin layers of cotton for dust protection, but left them undamped otherwise.  Initially, I loaded up the rest of the cups with some polyester quilt batting, but it made them sound a bit too muffled and closed.  For right now, the goal is to emulate as closely as possible the design of my modded T50RPs.  Since these pictures, I've also put a reflex dot on the middle of both drivers on both sides--that's how they arrived to me, and it does help them sound better.
 

 
At any rate, the quality of the sound is well beyond what I reasonably expected.  They sound fantastic.
 
They aren't the most detailed othos I've heard, but they do have a really clear, smooth midrange.  They work quite well with vocals.  They are nice and bright, with good, clear treble extension--among the best I've heard from ortho drivers so far.  Best of all, though, there is bass.  Clear, rich bass that doesn't start to fade until about 30hz.  As with most orthos, the soundstage isn't particularly wide, but there's great imaging and separation.  
 
At any rate, if the T50RP are a great deal for just over $70, these are even better at the roughly $25 I put into them.  I'm definitely looking forward to the arrival of the rest of my SFI drivers--this is turning into an addictive hobby.
 
 
Oct 30, 2010 at 1:09 PM Post #15,609 of 27,138
As for the Monsoons..
Interesting problem! The only thing that comes to mind to add is a layer of rust converter under the nail polish. I'm assuming the magnets are in danger of rusting right to oblivion once the process starts-- ie, the rust is autocatalytic as it normally is on plain iron and steel, rather than forming a protective layer. Which means every particle of rust must be removed or the process begins again.
 
I've never heard it buzz, but I now see that one of my two MM-1000s does have wavy shiny bits visible behind the grille. I always thought it was heat damage to the diaphragm and I was seeing warped voicecoil traces. Once again, ericj's fearless hand-me-that-impact-drill attitude has enlightened me.
 
JP: I'm very glad you're having a good time with the SFI. It was one of our happier discoveries, though at the moment, I don't remember who found 'em on eBay. Maybe ericj. I know it wasn't me.
 
Oct 30, 2010 at 2:03 PM Post #15,610 of 27,138
On the front face of at least the MM1000, it's possible that the bad plating won't cause a buzz. At the very least, I think you can yank out those loose bits of plating with a very small pair of tweezers without any real fear of damaging anything - the damping pad is tough. And since the damping pad is glued (quite securely) to the faces of the magnets, bad plating on the face isn't going to be very mobile or resonant. 
 
It's on the rear face where it can touch the membrane directly.
 
As for the bad magnets - i agree that it may well be a corrosion that won't stop unless there is some sort of protectant layer, but since i presume that the magnet is having just as much trouble on the face that is stuck to the metal plate, I settled on this stop-gap.
 
my initial guesstimate on the magnet dimensions was wrong - they are 2" long, 1/8" wide, and something like 3/32" thick. Appears thicker than 1/16" anyway.
 
 
Edit: And i wouldn't call me fearless so much as foolhardy . . .
 
Oct 30, 2010 at 5:56 PM Post #15,611 of 27,138
Did anyone ever make planar or ribbon car speakers?  It seems like it would be really ideal because of the smooth response.  So many car systems sound like they have twice as much treble as anything else.  I wound up giving up with my last car and just strapped some bookshelf speakers onto the seatbelt mounts above the backseats.  Other than the fact that the sound was coming from behind me, it was much better than the 10 or so "car" speakers I tried.
 
Oct 30, 2010 at 8:04 PM Post #15,614 of 27,138


Quote:
Did anyone ever make planar or ribbon car speakers?  It seems like it would be really ideal because of the smooth response.  So many car systems sound like they have twice as much treble as anything else.  I wound up giving up with my last car and just strapped some bookshelf speakers onto the seatbelt mounts above the backseats.  Other than the fact that the sound was coming from behind me, it was much better than the 10 or so "car" speakers I tried.



I could swear I've seen a monsoon-branded ribbon panel sold as a car audio product on ebay but i could be confused.
 
I've been putting off a major upgrade of my car audio system for ages now. I'm not trying to be exotic in the GTI. Just slightly better than factory without having to alter the interior of the car.
 
My old Fiat on the other hand - I'm going to end up with a cabinet riding on the 'parcel shelf' that some people confuse with a back seat. I mean, one of these days I'll fix it up again.
 
Some Fiat dealers used to cut out a 4" hole in each footwell to allow the installation of small coaxial speakers down near your feet. Which sounds reasonable at first blush but it turns out that this area is not water-tight and is indirectly exposed to the front wheel well. That sounds to me like something that can be fixed, but I'm unfamiliar with the sheet metal in that corner as my 124 Spider lacks those cutouts.
 
I believe I've also seen really shallow speakers installed in the panels that cover the frame of the convertable top when it's folded down.
 
Oh, and there's a cutout for like a 3x7 oval speaker right under the radio in the center console.
 
In my wildest dreams, I envision somehow turning that into a subwoofer.
 
But this car hasn't moved under it's own power since 1998. And I'm digressing. A lot.
 
 
Oct 31, 2010 at 11:05 AM Post #15,615 of 27,138


Quote:
I used ribbons in a Triumph GT6 III back in 76. Utah 6x9s and Infinity ribbons with a Pioneer supertuner.
 


Damn, that is an awesome car.  I was in the mood for a TR3 or TR6, but I think I scratch those and put the GT6 at the top of the list! 
 
Nowadays, most guys use the NEO3 and NEO8 planar tweets and mids it the car.  SFIs could be stacked and staggered, wired down to a 4ohm load.
 

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