[jageur272]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif First, I think Fostex is so far the only company that has kept selling orthodynamics in this year, unless there is some russian or other company that does so. Then being Fostex one of the only ones who keeps making those hps they have set a price to those headphones. It is both low because there is low demand, and low because building an ortho HP is quite cheap. (They still get their benefit when they sell Hps). Why do you have HD800 selling at $1400? Because there is a lot of demand on dynamic HPs. If there were no demand the price would be quite close to what it takes the company build a set of HPs, obviously adding some benefit to the company. The build quality of the T50RP might not be the best (still haven't received mine but I will report back once I get them), but the drivers themselves are pretty good and seem to do the work. Maybe they need more dumping (as some people prefer it that way), but supposedly the company already measured their HPs and decided it was good enough to get a nice response. Buying damping material is also pretty cheap, so prices don't need to sky rocket. About what you said it sounds many times better, that is yet to be discussed (and measured), and as other people are mentioning the price is quite above electrostatic HPs. That is just my thinking. And i won't be buying one of those if the price is so so so high. The reason why I bought the T50RP is because they have another type of driver, close to the way electrostats work but being way cheaper.

Are you talking about headphones you don't even have yet?? Comparing them to headphones you haven't heard?? Your logic is irrational and is just you defending your purchase of the Fostex. Also, Fostex's are used VERY often in studios. My dbi's are crazy big sellers, and have a $179.99 MSRP. The Fostex's also sell in studios, but only cost $75 ish. Your supply-demand theory just shows your lack of education in economics.

 

[Bullseye]

^Great to see another member feeling offended? by some comment... lol

My logic is absolutely rational, and I need not defend my purchase of Fostex.
So, I ask you, are you the one that believes in audio that you get what you pay for in both materials and sound? Do you also believe in cables?

If my so called "supply-demand" theory is wrong will you explain it then?

Who said what about comparing headphones? It was cetoole who talked about both. You should re-read my post again before you put your flame suit on...

I forgot: Are you also the kind of guys who just thinks all frequency response graphs are completely useless? Just trying to find out more about yourself before I start criticizing you...

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jageur272 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you talking about headphones you don't even have yet?? Comparing them to headphones you haven't heard?? Your logic is irrational and is just you defending your purchase of the Fostex. Also, Fostex's are used VERY often in studios. My dbi's are crazy big sellers, and have a $179.99 MSRP. The Fostex's also sell in studios, but only cost $75 ish. Your supply-demand theory just shows your lack of education in economics.

It's not really supply and demand. It's about economies of scale and the price the market will bear.

Sennheiser has a good name, and they can charge that much.

Fostex has a different sort of good name. They found a niche in entry-level studio gear and their parent company has extensive research and manufacturing resources. Their headphones are designed to be a very effective tool at a very competitive price.

A company like head direct has very little name recognition compared to either of these companies, and very limited resources as well.

On a per unit basis, they may end up spending more on each of their new ortho headphones than sennheiser does on the hd-800.

But that doesn't mean it makes it worth it for me. I'm not buying any $800 headphones. I'm presently agonizing over $200 headphones.

Well, ok, my ESP950 has an MSRP of $1000 but I've got less than $200 invested in them.

 

[dcpoor]

they may have limited resources and less engineering/production/purchase power as a small company. but also take into account the cost of labor difference of the two countries where they are developed and made.

 

[jageur272]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^Great to see another member feeling offended? by some comment... lol My logic is absolutely rational, and I need not defend my purchase of Fostex. So, I ask you, are you the one that believes in audio that you get what you pay for in both materials and sound? Do you also believe in cables? If my so called "supply-demand" theory is wrong will you explain it then? Who said what about comparing headphones? It was cetoole who talked about both. You should re-read my post again before you put your flame suit on... I forgot: Are you also the kind of guys who just thinks all frequency response graphs are completely useless? Just trying to find out more about yourself before I start criticizing you...

Sorry if I came off as offended. I must say that I write exactly as I would speak, and when spoken that sounds a lot less like I'm angry. At least in the way I speak .

But I digress. Your supply demand is incorrect because of different markets. Obviously, the HD800 and the Fostex are designed for different markets, just as the new Head-Direct ortho is. The T50RP is designed as a cheap studio phone, where as the HD800 and the HE5 are designed to be audiophile grade headphones. It's just what the consumer would be willing to pay for either.

As for believing in money = quality, I let my ears do the speaking. I can't hear a better/worse difference between $200 cables and $40 cable. I do, however, believe in scientific justification. I wouldn't buy anything more than BJC cables, they explain everything they do. There is a significant difference between shielded and unshielded cables. And I believe that freq response graphs are very useful, especially for determining the sound signature of headphones. Not so much, however, for determining the quality of them. Clipping levels and response times are more useful in that regard.

You, however, seem like the type to be self-righteous and determined to be correct. You also make assumptions based on what you read, not what you hear. I've heard 595's and hated them, but I loved my Fosted T40RPmkII (wish I kept it T_T). Price has nothing to do with it. That's why I generally disregard reviews and prefer to make my own opinions.

Hi-fi is way overpriced. Those who purchase are fully aware of that. What matters is what you hear, not what you spend (although I would never be able to justify investing in a $$$$ set up).

 

[Bullseye]

Well, seems you still didn't get my point

(Don't worry I sometimes don't understand myself either )

So you said: Quote:

The T50RP is designed as a cheap studio phone, where as the HD800 and the HE5 are designed to be audiophile grade headphones.

Let me say that if the are "cheap studio phones" it is because the way they can be manufactured is also cheap. As I said before the company selling their HPs at that price are also getting benefit out of it. Sennheiser, on the other hand are getting way more benefit than Fostex. Then the term "audiophile" is just another term to get more money out of different users. Same as the word Pro can be (e.g. MackBook Pro, or even some HPs). That is why they even make "audiophile FUSES" C'mon... Give me a break...

Another quote: Quote:

As for believing in money = quality, I let my ears do the speaking.

I will point again that you really CAN'T TRUST your ears. One day a set of HPs can sound great, next day the same set can sound awful. Depends on way too many factors as to be trusted. And sight seems to affect sound too. Hope you get my point here.

Then about this

Quote:

You, however, seem like the type to be self-righteous and determined to be correct. You also make assumptions based on what you read, not what you hear.

Made me laugh again

If I had to rely on my ears all the time I would be easily fooling myself. And if I were determined to be correct no matter what, I would not be very intelligent. However let me tell you that is not the case. I can be wrong after something I have said (and I have been, no doubt), but when I feel something I said due to the knowledge I gained on it is true I try to support it till either a) it shows I was correct, or b) it shows I was wrong. And when I read about something I read from both sides, not just the one I like more.

And one statement that I agree is: Quote:

Hi-fi is way overpriced

But this one NOT AT ALL

Quote:

Those who purchase are fully aware of that.

This is missing in some cases...

 

[jageur272]

I may not have understood what you said the first [and the second] times, but I don't think that you're quite understanding me either

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let me say that if the are "cheap studio phones" it is because the way they can be manufactured is also cheap. As I said before the company selling their HPs at that price are also getting benefit out of it. Sennheiser, on the other hand are getting way more benefit than Fostex. Then the term "audiophile" is just another term to get more money out of different users. Same as the word Pro can be (e.g. MackBook Pro, or even some HPs). That is why they even make "audiophile FUSES" C'mon... Give me a break...

You have to understand, the T50RP outsells the Senn probably around 10 to 1. There are plenty of recording studios in the world, and Fostex is a classic, trusted brand (just like Sony V6's). Senns are marketed to a niche of buyers who would be willing to pay that much money for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another quote: I will point again that you really CAN'T TRUST your ears. One day a set of HPs can sound great, next day the same set can sound awful. Depends on way too many factors as to be trusted. And sight seems to affect sound too. Hope you get my point here.

Obviously, sound is perception of pressure waves. However, I generally tend to like something that consistently pleases, and if not, I have a variety of headphones, each with a different "flavor" per se to suit my mood/musical taste of the day. If your tastes in headphones sway as wildly as you just said, then you should probably leave recordings alone and just play an instrument whenever you want music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I had to rely on my ears all the time I would be easily fooling myself. And if I were determined to be correct no matter what, I would not be very intelligent. However let me tell you that is not the case. I can be wrong after something I have said (and I have been, no doubt), but when I feel something I said due to the knowledge I gained on it is true I try to support it till either a) it shows I was correct, or b) it shows I was wrong. And when I read about something I read from both sides, not just the one I like more.

So what is the point of hi-fi (used generally here) if what you hear doesn't please you? Isn't the point of this hobby to get to a sound that satisfies you? If you didn't rely on your ears, why would you even participate? What determines good and bad? A frequency response graph? What other people say? You should never let what other people say determine what you think is good and bad. If I buy a $700 headphone and I like it, then I'll keep it. If I can find one for $100 that I like as much, then I'd take that and sell the $700 one. It's obviously what I believe is better.

Most people who invest $1400 for a 6 foot cable know that the production costs are only around $30 or so (including machining, etc.). However, if they hear a difference, so be it! Since sound, as we've talked about, is just a perception of pressure waves, if they perceive it to be better, nothing scientific can say that it is or isn't better. Science can only say that the sound waves are/aren't different. I agree with your general ideas, just not how to judge before you hear.

We should continue this via PM's so we don't pollute this thread.

 

[dBel84]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jageur272 /img/forum/go_quote.gif We should continue this via PM's so we don't pollute this thread.

much appreciated lads ..dB

 

[dBel84]

did anyone here pick up yogi's YH2's today - sweet deal for however got it but more importantly, I would like your opinion of the sound

..dB

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as I remember you never even listened to your E90 . I actually like E90 with ESP950, it has limitations but sounds very good still. Get SR-404 with SRM-1Mk2 for $700 easy to do and will sound great.

Blutarsky and I listened to the E90 before I traded the ESP950 rig (stax PC-OCC cable and adapter) to him for a brand new PS Audio Digital Link III DAC. We also pulled it out briefly at the 2/14/09 Colorado meet. It was a little midrange centric, but not awful and not great - just decent.

 

[ourfpshero]

just got a jvc harx900 with a bad driver cheap. the have 50mm shallow barrel type speaker mounts. i am planning on sfi drivers.
my question: can an sfi driver be made to have alot of bass as well as highs?

 

[charliex]

Hey - I have a Little Dot Mk III Amp and am purchasing an old pair of Yamaha Orthodynamic HP-2 cans. This is my first venture into Orthodynamics and am wondering what this headphone/amp combination will work. The HP-2s are apparently balanced and properly damped. Any idea what I am getting into?

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliex /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey - I have a Little Dot Mk III Amp and am purchasing an old pair of Yamaha Orthodynamic HP-2 cans. This is my first venture into Orthodynamics and am wondering what this headphone/amp combination will work. The HP-2s are apparently balanced and properly damped. Any idea what I am getting into?

You are getting into a (hopefully) great experience with your music

 

[dBel84]

If these are the YP-2 you refer to , the amp will be perfect and the cans are AWESOME !! ( sound like a teen bopper

) ..dB

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

The point I was making about the HE5 was that they were very crisp clean detailed and transparent and not very colored, and sounded good with a $299-399 EF1 tube hybrid amp. They were not as forward as the ESP950 which on many occasions I have said are like an electrostatic RS-1. I can't say how fast the HE5 are without spending more time with them, and I only listened to a couple of jazz tunes (Diana Krall Live in Paris) and I can't comment about soundstage or timbre/tone yet till I play with some more classical and acoustic music with one. I can't comment about impact and extension till I listen to some rock and electronic with them.