Orthodynamic Roundup
Feb 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM Post #16,381 of 27,185
Yeah I've tried some cotton in my Fostex and it was good except I thought it added grain to the sound.  I'm not sure how that would be possible, but it's what I heard.  How big was the diameter of the PVC pipe you used? About the same as the driver?  With the fostex I found that if it's bigger diameter than the driver it creates a lot of resonance or echo. 
 
If only I had more tooling abilities...
 
Feb 7, 2011 at 7:18 PM Post #16,384 of 27,185
Eric - when you say you have heard underdamped YH-1 phones and didn't like them - were you refering to open YH-1 drivers like those in ApatN's photo, or YH-1 drivers in underdamped closed housings?
 
Feb 7, 2011 at 7:22 PM Post #16,385 of 27,185


Quote:
Quote:
The open concept with ortho drivers is interesting. This actually sounds pretty good:
 
These are HP-1 drivers sandwiched in HD414 pads and with an extender behind the drivers to bring out the bass. 
 
The only real issue I have know is that the drivers really need to be on the ears to hear any bass at all. When I get back from holiday I will have to build some kind of baffle/shells/cups for this. 



I really, really, would not have cut that hole over the face of the driver. Once crud gets betwixt magnet and diaphragm, all sorts of badness can happen, and is VERY hard to clean out of yamaha drivers. 
 
Fostex and PMB drivers can be disassembled (As well as some others) - on a yamaha you better have a drill and a steady hand if you need to open it.
 
(Aside from that, I know what an underdamped Yamaha -1 sounds like, and bass or no bass I'm glad I'm not listening to it)



Actually I've opened up YH-100 drivers and fixed a corroded diaphragm (with conductive ink, like dbel did with YH-1000's) with nothing more than a miniature flat head screw driver.
 
Feb 7, 2011 at 7:51 PM Post #16,386 of 27,185
I will repost a few images from past experiments as many won't have seen these. YH100 in a grado style cup - sounded pretty good but never fine tuned them. 
 

 

 

 

 
(thinking about it, the original links will all be messed up by my re-organization ) 
 
..dB
 
Feb 7, 2011 at 8:26 PM Post #16,388 of 27,185
Oh wow that is truly amazing.  That is like something out of a dream.  Not just the wood housing which looks like it was done really well, but also the big baffles to accomodate bigger pads and the brass forks and brown leather headband to boot.  Do you still have those, or did you make them for someone else? 
 
Feb 7, 2011 at 8:34 PM Post #16,389 of 27,185
I was making them for yogi - these were the prototypes, mdf baffles, cnc'd for fit. The final product was going to be some gorgeous brown linen micarta. Pads are aviation series from Beyer, headband was a vintage pickering. They were sounding good , I had done a first pass damping to see if it was worth pursuing. It was, but circumstances changed and the product was never completed. I believe he still has them if someone wants to offer to take them off his hands and play some more..dB
 
Feb 7, 2011 at 9:16 PM Post #16,390 of 27,185
I sometimes wonder if that would improve those vintage PMB-80s.  I can't seem to get them to sound quite right in the stock enclosures, but those big drivers ought to be able to do something special...
 
Feb 7, 2011 at 9:27 PM Post #16,391 of 27,185
Damping is simply about getting control of the diaphragm.
Even the largest of the vintage ortho diaphragms (the Fostex T50/30 and their OEM variants) can't catch enough air to be damped by the air load. Any springy thing that's vibrating with nothing to stop it will keep vibrating, and it will vibrate over a predictable range of frequencies if the mass and springiness and losses are known. So it is with the vintage orthos-- they all had a slowly-falling treble and a broad resonant hump centered on the mid-to-upper bass. When given a step input, like the one produced when a phono stylus hits a groove boulder, this resonance would be excited, and it's in the nature of an excited resonance that the energy from the step input will be stored in the hump and released over several cycles so that a sharp tick or click would be smeared out into a distinctive pwock. Describing it in words this way necessarily exaggerates the effect, but once heard, it's obvious, and obviously wrong. Wrong in the sense that the diaphragm is not following the input.
 
So whatever other benefits damping an ortho driver might have (and there are a few, including backwave control and a flatter frequency response), the primary reason is to make the diaphragm able to stop when the signal stops. Dynamic headphone drivers are almost always damped, so why not orthos? 
 

 
This is not to say that an undamped ortho driver can't be enjoyed; it certainly can. It's just going to have certain characteristics which will make it fail certain tests. If those tests don't reflect real-world use, and the known defects don't matter, then there's no argument. The droopy-treble and the bass-hump problems can indeed be solved in other ways, with earpad manipulation, for example. So there are many ways to make an ortho enjoyable, and the basic ortho virtues will shine through. But if you're after the ancient ideal of waveform fidelity, damping is necessary. 
 
Has anyone revisited the old idea of using felt or fabric plugs in the magnet holes, taking the damping that little bit closer to the diaphragm? ..Like this:
 

 
 
 
Quote:
Originally posted by joelpearce:
I sometimes wonder if that would improve those vintage PMB-80s. ...those big drivers ought to be able to do something special...
 

My feeling too. I couldn't figure out what the heck was going on with the PMB drivers, and put them aside because there were other projects that promised easier results, but I still feel there's some unlocked potential there. What first leaps to mind is "TRANSPLANT!", but maybe that's not necessary. Maybe getting them out in free space will give you a clue.
 
Feb 7, 2011 at 9:40 PM Post #16,392 of 27,185
I realized two things today. The pads of the ATH-2 are totally its bottleneck. I made ghetto felt pads and the coloration and muddiness went almost completely away.
 
And the AKG K4's are the best $15 I've EVER spent in this hobby. But anyone know how to bond plastic together? My mom accidentally sat on them and snapped them...
 
I'm pretty much SOL if I need spare parts for either the RP50 or K4, since I emailed Frank and he said he doesn't have any spare parts for either.
 
Feb 7, 2011 at 9:55 PM Post #16,393 of 27,185
Ouch! Loctite's Sumo polyurethane glue is the only likely candidate that springs to mind. Anyone else have any ideas? 
 
Have you got some macro shots of the break? You may have to resort to a metal cover plate and screws.
 
Feb 7, 2011 at 10:29 PM Post #16,394 of 27,185

 
And the ATH-2, done pretty sloppily (I did it while watching the Super Bowl...)

 
Feb 7, 2011 at 10:40 PM Post #16,395 of 27,185


Quote:
Eric - when you say you have heard underdamped YH-1 phones and didn't like them - were you refering to open YH-1 drivers like those in ApatN's photo, or YH-1 drivers in underdamped closed housings?



Unopened in their factory condition.
 
They're not bad, but they haven't achieved half of what they can be.
 

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