[shipsupt]

Quote:

Going by its measured frequency response by Tyll Hertsen, the DT 1350 is actually warmer than the P5, HD-25, ESW9, and maybe others too. But I think they can appear as bright in the sense that IMHO they do not sound very substantial. I find that their sound is surprisingly close to electrostatic headphones in the sense that whatever their frequency response is, they'll always sound quite airy and light-footed. I think though that this characteristic disappear at the lowest frequencies - the DT 1350 has one of the most focused and impactful infrabass I've ever come acrosse in a portable headphone.
Maybe their very small driver (less than 30mm) is at play here.
 
As an illustration, I now have at my disposal the Z1000 and the DT 1350 (amped via a TTVJ). The DT 1350 has a measured FR that is warmer than the Z1000. Yet as it doesn't sound as full bodied, it may appear at first as brighter than the Sony.
 

This is (sort of, the result more than the reasoning for it) what keeps the 1350 from having that full size headphone sound for me.  While I appreciate what they do, they still sound like a small headphone to me.  Less so than other similar portables, but they don't pull off the big can sound for me.  For me the 25's do a better job of sounding "big".  
 
 
 
 

 

[MayaTlab]

Quote:

Actually, I am not sure what you mean by the FR implying a set can or does sound a certain way.  I thought the FR only shows responsiveness, not quantity or coloration.  

Frequency response means quantity, measured in dB, or at least "relative" quantity (that is to say response for a particular frequency in contrast to other frequencies for the same headphones, or other headphones if testing conditions are similar).
 
Obviously it's not enough to determine how headphone sound. But it's enough to tell if a pair of heapdhones is "warm" or "cold". Just not enough to determine if subjective impressions will be the same, as I believe other caracteristics can bias our hearing. For example, many people find the P5 warm, while its frequency response shows that it actually is rather bright in the midrange. I believe that its slow speed, housing design and rather large driver can interfere with somewhat objective measurements and result in a different assessment.
 

 

[Anathallo]

Actually, swbf2cheater, it could be the fact that I've never really heard an especially warm headphone that makes me feel the DT1350s are warmer then you might think.  I'm a Beyer fanboy (and it's where most of my extended listening experience lies), so I find the 1350s warmer than the 770s, 880s and 990s.
 
My experience with headphones is lacking considerably when compared to the majority of members here - my voyage is still beginning.  That said, when I listen to female vocals, acoustic music, symphonic orchestra, even ensemble jazz, the 1350s come off on the warm side of neutral.  I don't think I would ever want to own a headphone you consider warm if the 1350s come off as sterile to your ears.  Hmmmm.....  Some things to think about.

 

[Il Mostro]

Interesting and pretty diverse, even juxtaposed, opinions on these little phones.  I have found the 1350's to be very sensitive to source and amplification quality.  They really respond to what they are fed -- more so than any on-ear portable I can recall.  As indicated earlier, my primary intended use is iPod Classic -> HP P-1 ->DT1350's.  This is a pretty magical combination.  Warmth, openness, detail and very full but still controlled LF. They also sound fantastic driven by my CI VHP1/VAC1 with DAC duties handled by DLIII/Cullen Level IV, whether playing CD's or lossless/asynch from my MBP.  Noticeably more dynamic and weighty, as is to be expected. 
 
Direct from the iPod, iBasso D10 or UDAC they are different phones.  Nothing that gives me wood.  I would definitely grab HD25's or ESW9's if going this route and be perfectly with this type of setup (which is why all three are must-have staples for the seriously deranged).  I also agree that they do not have the Beyer house sound -- at least not seeming to share a shred of DNA with my trusty DT880's.  
 
IMO, this is by far the most hi-fi sounding on-ear phone I have heard.   The fact that I can take this level of performance on the road is pretty amazing. Makes me want to hop on a trans-Pacific flight and get my drink order in right now.  Now, I only have to figure out how to make the HP P-1 last for 18-20 hours

 

[zibra]

I also use lil beyers on quite nice home gear and I like it more than SRH940 which I find too "delicate and eclectic" in sound signature.
Il Mostro - if we compare it to big cans...whats your opinion of DT1350 vs RS1 and DT880. Have you ever heard DT880/600? Anyone can share opinion how does it compare even to T1?

 

[swbf2cheater]

Quote:

Frequency response means quantity, measured in dB, or at least "relative" quantity (that is to say response for a particular frequency in contrast to other frequencies for the same headphones, or other headphones if testing conditions are similar).
 

In most cases this isn't true, in only a few I would agree.  I was only curious to know what that users definition or thoughts on it were as they didn't make sense to me based on what I knew FR to mean.  Usually, the wider the range listed, the closer it will be to a natural or neutral signature, the more narrow the more warm but a few of us have said its not always true.  I guess that was the point I was trying to make, due to the very wider FR of the DT 1350 it would more than likely imply its neutral, cold, or natural in coloration, definitely not warm.  Such a high responsiveness to the highs will offset any hint of warmth. 

Quote:

Actually, swbf2cheater, it could be the fact that I've never really heard an especially warm headphone that makes me feel the DT1350s are warmer then you might think.  I'm a Beyer fanboy (and it's where most of my extended listening experience lies), so I find the 1350s warmer than the 770s, 880s and 990s.
 
My experience with headphones is lacking considerably when compared to the majority of members here - my voyage is still beginning.  That said, when I listen to female vocals, acoustic music, symphonic orchestra, even ensemble jazz, the 1350s come off on the warm side of neutral.  I don't think I would ever want to own a headphone you consider warm if the 1350s come off as sterile to your ears.  Hmmmm.....  Some things to think about.

Heh! Well, having owned all of them I can safely say none of the beyers are warm and are somewhere between neutral and cold.  thats really the house sound of beyer, they are not known for warm sound.  Right now, I am having a really hard time judging anything on my 1350.  As I said coming off the LCD2 and Edition 8, my dt 1350 sounds completely busted.  But after about 15 minutes of use my ears forget how the lcd2 sounded and start to pick feel the sound of the beyer 1350 is very nice.  It is a hard situation for me to say anything further about it, again the more i use the higher end sets the more broken all my other gear sounds.  
I do not think they are broken of course, most of them are new but you get where I am coming from.  Its scary to me and the thought lingers in the back of my head at all times now "did they break or get scared when the lcd2 arrived?  Just randomly broke inside their case as soon as the other hifi set entered my house?"
 
My 1350 is not the type of set i want for portability.  Physically, its awesome for portable needs, but the sound is as everyone says "just of a higher quality" but that does not mean fun.  I was hoping it would be a highly engaging set but its rather smooth and lacking enough bass to make me happy.  Still great though, just not my cup of tea for portable needs

 

[metalsonata]

Welp, today one of the headband pads came totally off when I pulled it off my head. Anybody got any suggestions for re-attaching it in a more permanent manner, or just for better headband pads, period? If not, suppose I'll just glue it back on and see how well that holds.

 

[JamesMcProgger]

Quote:

Welp, today one of the headband pads came totally off when I pulled it off my head. Anybody got any suggestions for re-attaching it in a more permanent manner, or just for better headband pads, period? If not, suppose I'll just glue it back on and see how well that holds.

shame, how long have you had them and how much use?
 

 

[metalsonata]

Quote:

shame, how long have you had them and how much use?
 

Only have had them for about four months, maybe a little less. For the first couple months I used them for about an average of four hours a day--recently it's been more like 1 hour a day. It's just the one headband pad, the other is still very firmly attached and is showing no signs of loosening up or peeling away. So it's hopefully a fluke. Still, pretty pitiful.
 

 

[RapidPulse]

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...and a seriously lacking low end

 
You've made a few references to the 1350s being "bass light" and "lacking low end".  No disrespect...but that has not been my experience at all.  Are you sure you are getting a truly good fit on these?  You seem to be describing the way they sound before I have them in my "sweet" spot (which took a little time to find).
 
My experience has been very similar to something that Beagle mentioned a little while back....the bass is highly dependent on the recording. Sometimes, it is a little light.  But when it is there in the recording...it is THERE.  Are you hearing something similar?
 
Quote:

Sometimes you think there's not much bass, then you try another recording and it's all there. In fact, on the same recording (The Police "Synchronicity") one track had rather lightweight bass and another was absolutely thunderous in it's depth and power. Same thing on the top end, some recordings sound a bit lifeless in the treble, others sparkle. We must be getting close to "accurate" here.

 

[JamesMcProgger]

I consider them very light on the bass department as well, ligher than the HD25, which is already a not-for-bassheads headphone.

 

[swbf2cheater]

i think the sweetspot thing is pure nonsense, if you need to position it in any way beyond what should be considered normal, then that is not what the set truly is piping at your ears.  I would like to know what other portables and headphones you have experience with because I would rate the dt 1350 as bass light, the ms400 at bass moderate and something like the thunderpants or skybeyer at bass heavy.  
 
i will have to firmly disagree, the dt1350 even with proper amping is not anywhere near as bassy as a few of the other top rated portables.  It has no bass ambiance at all, meaning when there is no bass, there is no bass.  Where as on the phiatons, even the ps320 there is always bass presence even with very low bass recorded in the track, both are sets i would call bass moderate and have much more than the beyer, which leads me to believe the dt 1350 is bass light.

 

[shipsupt]

I am going to agree with you that the 1350's are on the lighter end of bass, at least on quantity and impact, not on extension.  And I agree that I shouldn't have to find any sweet spot or fit to get the sound that the headphones are supposed to deliver, but if you're saying that this is simply not the case with the 1350, that we are imagining this need for proper placement and fit, then I am going to disagree with that point.  That's like saying that IEM's don't need a proper fit to deliver the sound as designed, or in a less extreme example that if you lift the pads free on a pair of Stax (or many other headphones for that matter) that the sound delivery is not effected.  The IEM's are piping the same sound to your ears regardless of the fit and seal, but without getting it right they are going to sound terrible.  Unfortunately the 1350 is the same. 
 
Like many users I now have things down so I can quickly put them on my head in the right position and get things right immediately, but it's still a part of the design of this headphone that is a downside for me.  Well, I still can't say if it has more to do with the design of the headphone or the design of my melon, but I certainly do not seem alone on this one...
 
Sorry if I misinterpreted your point.
 
Quote:

i think the sweetspot thing is pure nonsense, if you need to position it in any way beyond what should be considered normal, then that is not what the set truly is piping at your ears.  I would like to know what other portables and headphones you have experience with because I would rate the dt 1350 as bass light, the ms400 at bass moderate and something like the thunderpants or skybeyer at bass heavy.  
 
i will have to firmly disagree, the dt1350 even with proper amping is not anywhere near as bassy as a few of the other top rated portables.  It has no bass ambiance at all, meaning when there is no bass, there is no bass.  Where as on the phiatons, even the ps320 there is always bass presence even with very low bass recorded in the track, both are sets i would call bass moderate and have much more than the beyer, which leads me to believe the dt 1350 is bass light.

 
 

 

[swbf2cheater]

Well, in some cases you would be right, however, iems go into your ear only one way, and the only thing required to get proper sound is proper fit, not proper placement.  Its either just rightly placed, too far in, or too loose, there are no other ways to fit an iem into your ear.  This logic doesnt apply to on ear sets imo, as their drivers are large enough to encompass the entry canal to your ears.  It was not designed for anything but to be placed right on your ears and if you flip the set upside down,it sounds identically the same as right side up, so positioning it in any way other than centered should make it sound inferior to a center position 
 
that is my experience, the drivers are circular, so long as they are centered on your ear you should be able to put the headband in any place and have it sound the same, and it does.  If you wear it goofy and have it set with the headband over your face, below your chin or behind your head, it sounds the same as it does when its centered normally with the band on top of your head.  The only time it changes is when the drivers are not centered on your ears, and they are offset a bit close to your face, or further back on your ear, both of these methods are not recommended and not intended to be used .

 

[shipsupt]

Let me clarify, the positions that I am using are not being driven by trying to change the position of the drivers. It is all about getting a seal. It's getting better clamping, changing the angle of the cups and pads to get the seal right. I don't think I implied, and didn't mean to if I did, that I was trying to change the location or angle of the drivers to change the sound. Sorry if I gave that impression. But I do think a seal of some kind, is required for even open headphones, and I agree that should be part of the design, not something you have to work at.

As my experience with the 1350 indicates that I am finding the seal with greater ease now, this might be due to a learning curve, but it might also be that the pads are getting softer or worn in making it easier... Just a thought.