[Techno Kid]

I'm surprised that you like the XBA-3 more than the BA200, I've heard the Sony and I thought it was like a poor mans TF10 personally.  Also how you think the PFE 112 is more spacious sounding than the BA200 is a mystery to me as well.  The PFE doesn't have a large soundstage and the BA200 is quite a bit wider so that's just strange but I also think the SM3 has a very large soundstage and others think its closed in sounding but I've never heard the 112 described as spacious.

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

I'm surprised that you like the XBA-3 more than the BA200, I've heard the Sony and I thought it was like a poor mans TF10 personally.  Also how you think the PFE 112 is more spacious sounding than the BA200 is a mystery to me as well.  The PFE doesn't have a large soundstage and the BA200 is quite a bit wider so that's just strange but I also think the SM3 has a very large soundstage and others think its closed in sounding but I've never heard the 112 described as spacious.

Let me clarify a few things .  First the xba-3 is nowhere near as good as the ba200... on most sources.  On my 5 ohm or so ipod touch it sounds completely different and has more bass and clarity than the ba200 with a more v-shape.  However, the more I listen to it the less I like it in general, as I'm starting to become familiar with the nuances and sound properties of the set.  I fin they have strange noises in the treble and not enough mid.  However, on the ipod classic they sound worse being more treble heavy, and on the amp they simply sound horrible.  When I had said I liked them more I had a) been listening to them on the ipod and b) not been familiar enough with them at first and the greater treble and bass seemed like what the ba200 was missing (it is missing a bot of both).
 
However, on any other source not only do the xba03 sound worse, but the ba200 sound BETTER.  Not by much, but still better.  So in that regard the ba200 is the clear winner there.  ANd you are correst that the ba200 is more spacious, but you can see that if i were listening to it on a source with boosted treble it would seem more spacious.  And the xba-3 still does have the brighter high highs.  But the neutrality of the ba200 makes their space much more realistic.
 
The pfe 112 soundstage is somehow different.  When I listen to the ba200 i think i'm always slightly distracted by the lack of that really high crisp airy-ness that I prefer.  When I listen to the pfe112, even though the high airy-ness isn't loud compared to the other frequencies, it is there.  It is more soft and laid back, but the frequencies are clearly represented.  Add to the the slightly more detailed mids and to me most songs exhibit a cleaner more "open" sound.  I would actually call the pfe warmer than the ba200 in some regards, being a bit more mid-centric and smooth in the mids.  However, the details they pull out at any given frequency allows me to hear more of the realism of most instruments which to me translates to a better sound stage.  And by sound stage I mean the general sense of "being there" in the music hall or wherever.  If the ba200 had that little more treble presence, I would say they would probably be more than the pfe, but without that for me it takes away from whatever sound stage they would have had.
 
I guess it would be like having a nice dinner with a dead fly on the plate.  Even if the dinner looked better than your friend's the fly would just get in the way and you could more easily enjoy your friend's plate.
 
Anyhow, I would now consider the xba-3 almost on the horrible scale.  I have no use for any headphone that can't be relatively easily transferred between sources.  No other set I've 'ever' used has changed so much based on the source, and not in a good way...

 

[waynes world]

Quote:

O.k.  I think I nailed the pin on the head.  According to this post http://www.head-fi.org/t/608553/review-comparison-two-flagships-pass-in-the-night-sony-xba-4-review-vs-the-mdr-ex1000
that is exactly what is happening with the XBA-3.  YUCK!!!!!.  It sounds like crap on my nice amp!!!!  The treble IS in fact horrificly audible.  I can't even believe the differences.  I don't know the output of the ipod touch vs. ipod classic, but I read somewhere the ipod touch is around 5-7 ohms.  The classic must be a bit higher, because it goes from a fairly soft neutral sound, to a more detailed brighter sound on the classic and then to an all out metal treble fest on the duet.  See this image:
 

 
That looks almost exactly liek what I would expect listening to the xba-3.  The ipod touch would be the red line at <10 ohms so even lower probably.  The classic is probably around 10-15 ohms?  And the duet is the black line at 30 ohms.  I think what kills the sound is probably that 10khz bump really bringing out the metal sounds.  You can see at the red line, or lower even, that hump is more in line with the other treble better.
 
It's really too bad.  If there was a way for me to keep the xba-3 at that red line across sources I'd be an extremely happy man...  Although, I suppose I could have them as my "ipod" headphones.  But then I need another $200 pair for my computer?  UGH....

 
This is very interesting. I usually listen on my SGS2 (apparently 49 Ohm) and the Clip Zip (16 Ohm?), and might explain why I found the sound to be a bit too bright on the xba-3 with most of the tips. The light blue non-foam tips solve the issue for me for some reason, but I was a bit confused as to why other tips which were being recommended to me were sounding too bright.

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

 
This is very interesting. I usually listen on my SGS2 (apparently 49 Ohm) and the Clip Zip (16 Ohm?), and might explain why I found the sound to be a bit too bright on the xba-3 with most of the tips. The light blue non-foam tips solve the issue for me for some reason, but I was a bit confused as to why other tips which were being recommended to me were sounding too bright.

That's what I thought to when I was changing tips.  They helped a bit, but i didn't realize the issue was the amp at the time.  Or rather, the xba on that amp.

 

[luisdent]

O.k. time for an update.  I talked with amazon, and they gave me free return shipping labels without me even asking.  So I guess I just got to test 5 headphones for free...  No complaints here.
 
So, I was in the store today and they had some over ear headphones on display.  The setup they had sounded like dog mess, but I found that the headphone cables were tied up underneath the racks towards the back.  They were just plugged into a splitter.  I unplugged a few and tried them.  I came home with a pair of Sennheiser HD 439.
 
While not the best headphone out there, I've actually heard these before briefly, as my brother's friend owns a pair and was pretty impressed for the price.  I hooked up my ipod in the store and sampled a variety of music.  Everything sounded great.  I already know now, buying these, that I plan on upgrading in the next couple years, maybe sooner if possible.  However, for $99 I think these are the beset value I've found.  Unfortunately, they aren't "as" portable and don't have all the conveniences of an IEM, but they are probably the most comfortable headphone I've ever worn, they seal decent enough and they sound great.
 
When I can afford it I met try some PFE 232.  If I liked them enough the price might be worth it.  Otherwise, I'll keep on searchin'.  For now I'm going to try and step back and just enjoy the Sennheisers as long as I can.    Let me know if anyone has any more questions about the sets I've tried.  I'll be shipping them back in a day or so...

 

[zerocoolhifi]

I am looking to pull the trigger on the BA-200 but would like a little comparison with the EPH-100, RE 262 and the T Peos H-100 (anyone heard them all?). Listen to mainly rock, hair metal (steelheart, slaughter, rhino bucket etc.), new rock (buckcherry, seether, the pretty reckless etc.) but do like a little techno or whatever they call it these days and some alternative stuff (spoon, clutch). I am not a bass head but do like the low to be accurate and present, low tight with punch. Can't stand sibilance but like good clear highs and vocals to be not recessed. Thanks much.

 

[Techno Kid]

I've had them all and imo the BA200 is quite a bit better than all 3 of those but the RE262 comes close.  The low end on the BA200 is pretty good with better mid bass than sub and the have good impact for the 4/4 beats of EDM/techno and they sound great with pretty much all types of music.
 
The H-100 is really bright and the highs can sound quite harsh imo and the mid on the BA200 blow the mids of the H-100 out of the water.  The H-100 has better bass impact and depth but that's all they might have over the BA200 imo.
 
The EPH-100 is a good IEM but again the mid of the BA200 are better and while the highs are never harsh on the EPH-100 the do sound a bit metallic.  Again being a dynamic driver they have more bass but I wouldn't say its better bass.
 
The RE262 is the one on your list that compares very well next to the BA200 but this is one case of a BA having better bass than a dynamic driver because the RE262 is quite week with impact and depth and both have excellent mids, also the highs are a lot alike as well.  Both have a spacious soundstage.  The RE262's mids a more forward and I think the BA200 isolates vocals a little better.  Even though the RE262 sounds a lot like the BA200 I like the over all sound signature more as the have a more lush sound imo.
 
So I think the BA200 is the best of the 3 though just slightly over the RE262 and at its current price is and great deal so that's my recommendation.

 

[PeterDLai]

I guess what the XBA-3 really needs is the huge impedance stabilizer from the BA200.

 

[zerocoolhifi]

Thanks Techno, BA200 it is then but I am sure that I will need to buy others as well. I want this one to be my mid priced staple in my lineup. Love my X10s for overall SQ and comfort (can fall asleep with these in as you don't even know they are there) with their tight bass impact and the forward mids and vocals, nice clear highs but 3D sound stage is not great. Monster Turbine Pro Golds when the highs need to be tamed and want a little more depth on the low end. Any burn in required for BA200?

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

Any burn in required for BA200?

 
I didn't notice any change in them, and I listened to them for probably 20 hours.  Not sure after that, but i'd assume not...

 

[sinquito]

@luisdent:
Did you return all of the IEMs? or kept some? How portable and isolating are the senn? I don't know if you remember me asking in the TDK200 and Vsoinc GR07 threads for advice, well I end up buying the sony xba 3 directly from sony because they were more cheap (1500 MXN or something like 115 american bucks) with local warranty and free DHL shipping. I haven't recieved them yet, but I have auditioned the XBA 4 and I know what you mean about the metallic tinge, anyway I will write back as soon as I get them. What I don't understand is why spend too much money in many IEMs instead of just buying one (like the PFE232) that would probably be what you are looking for?
I also saw the senn in a local store, they look kinda cheap and the price was more or less like the sony (120 bucks lets say) but they are big and open, so I don't think portability are their strong.
Nice thread by the way!

 

[kAbUZi]

Quote:

@luisdent:
Nice thread by the way!

+1
 
I have just finished reading your individual song notes. I appreciate the effort in writing it up!
I would like to ask you which tips did you use while doing this:
comply or silicone with the phonak's? ;
foam, long stem or short stem with the vsonic's?

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

@luisdent:
Did you return all of the IEMs? or kept some? How portable and isolating are the senn? I don't know if you remember me asking in the TDK200 and Vsoinc GR07 threads for advice, well I end up buying the sony xba 3 directly from sony because they were more cheap (1500 MXN or something like 115 american bucks) with local warranty and free DHL shipping. I haven't recieved them yet, but I have auditioned the XBA 4 and I know what you mean about the metallic tinge, anyway I will write back as soon as I get them. What I don't understand is why spend too much money in many IEMs instead of just buying one (like the PFE232) that would probably be what you are looking for?
I also saw the senn in a local store, they look kinda cheap and the price was more or less like the sony (120 bucks lets say) but they are big and open, so I don't think portability are their strong.
Nice thread by the way!

I bought multiple IEMs so I could compare them and keep the one I thought was best.  I did this, because too many times I've bought something and wasn't happy with it, so I had to return it.  I had assumed none of them would be perfect, but I would keep the best of them.  Unfortunately, they were all less than useable for me personally.  I'm very specific about my music (aren't we all it we're here?) and I couldn't deal with the flaws that each model had.
 
I bought then senn 439 thinking a bigger pair would solve the issue.  It did solve the sound issue for me (they're not perfect, but have no major flaws and sound good).  Unfortunately, I'm not sure I can keep them for two reasons.  Despite advertising and reviews, they don't isolate well at all.  When I'm sitting in my living room listening to music I hear the refrigerator turn on and it completely gets in the music.  They also leak sound very badly, and one of the times i listen to music the most is in bed next to my wife who is easily woken.  If I keep the volume low and hide under my blanket she said it's o.k., but that is not enjoyable.  So I made a decision, and I hope this is my final decision.  I decided to get two headphones.  One for in ear listening and one for mixing/listening when isolation isn't critical.  I check more reviews here and talked with someone from headroom (the online store) and they helped me pick a set based off of everything I've gone through so far.
 
I have purchased the audio technica m50.  They said the isolate better, leak less and have superior quality all around.  Head-fi posts seem to agree in general.  For bed and portable I have purchased a pair of cheap in ear sonys for $30.  I'm sure I'll get crap for saying this, but for me they are worth the price more than any set i've tried in this post.  Now, they aren't technically as high quality, but they have very good overall frequency with only very slightly boosted bass and treble, but they have no sibilance, they extend well in both directions not lacking crisp highs or sub bass.  The only area they lack the most would be the overall separation, distinction, etc.  But they are still very good in those regards, just not at the level of the others.  But considering I don't listen to them and find any major flaws and the fact that they are $30 headphones AND the fact that I'll have the M50 I think they are a much better value.  If I weren't buying the M50 that wouldn't suffice as my full time headphone.  But when I can't use the M50 they are more than good enough.

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

+1
 
I have just finished reading your individual song notes. I appreciate the effort in writing it up!
I would like to ask you which tips did you use while doing this:
comply or silicone with the phonak's? ;
foam, long stem or short stem with the vsonic's?

Thanks, it was fun.   In most cases I used the stock "medium silicone" as they fit best in my ears.  With the tdk ba200 that would be the medium flanged tips.  I also tried the other tips and found that the comply foam tips were better, but I didn't want to wear them out in case I returned them, so I only used those briefly.  They usually gave a very very slightly bass response and better isolation as well.  Other than that, I didn't notice any major change in the sound, and I did compare them directly to the silicone tips.  With the vsonics I tried a bunch and landed again with the medium silicone.  They simply fit perfectly in my ears and also allowed the armature body to lay perfectly where it should.
 
But ultimately, the decisions I made based on the comparisons were all using the medium silicones...

 

[luisdent]

For what it's worth, if anyone is interested, the UE700 are only $75 on amazon right now!!!  I'd call that a good deal.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Ultimate-Ears-Noise-Isolating-Earphones/dp/B003YKG2YQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1353202703&sr=1-1&keywords=ue+700