[average_joe]

Frogbeats just posted several new Custom IEM related things on their Facebook page including a group buy, check them out.
 
Quote:

after read your reviews, I'm interested in both SA-43 and SE-5way.  I like it when you mention about the 3D sound stage on both of these.  Could you explain more on this for both pair.  I had a home sound system that I setup long time ago in my home country with all surrond speakers and multi channel amp.  I modified it for music listening and really fall in love with it.  I mostly listen to live concert album.  I'd like to have a ciem that can give the similar sound quality and ambience.  I hope you can suggest some ciem that will give me the sound and ambience similar to live concert listening. 

 
The SA-43 is the most laid back and spacious CIEM I own while the 5-way is very true to the recording, but doesn't have quite the space.  The strength of the SA-43 is that while it has a large space, it fills that space in a very convincing way with exceptional layering, black space, instrument placement, and instrument separation.  The 5-way is also very good and even better at these things with more resolution, but it doesn't have quite the size/space as the SA-43 and sounds more up close and personal.  It can sound large however depending on the recording, but still ultimately is smaller than the SA-43.  I would say the SA-43 gives more of a 'you are there in the audience' feel, but be prepared for a laid back presentation (even with the presence switch on).

 

[Cassadian]

Quote:

Frogbeats just posted several new Custom IEM related things on their Facebook page including a group buy, check them out.
 
 
The SA-43 is the most laid back and spacious CIEM I own while the 5-way is very true to the recording, but doesn't have quite the space.  The strength of the SA-43 is that while it has a large space, it fills that space in a very convincing way with exceptional layering, black space, instrument placement, and instrument separation.  The 5-way is also very good and even better at these things with more resolution, but it doesn't have quite the size/space as the SA-43 and sounds more up close and personal.  It can sound large however depending on the recording, but still ultimately is smaller than the SA-43.  I would say the SA-43 gives more of a 'you are there in the audience' feel, but be prepared for a laid back presentation (even with the presence switch on).

 
A good way to get things started.

 

[danpong]

Quote:

Frogbeats just posted several new Custom IEM related things on their Facebook page including a group buy, check them out.
 
 
The SA-43 is the most laid back and spacious CIEM I own while the 5-way is very true to the recording, but doesn't have quite the space.  The strength of the SA-43 is that while it has a large space, it fills that space in a very convincing way with exceptional layering, black space, instrument placement, and instrument separation.  The 5-way is also very good and even better at these things with more resolution, but it doesn't have quite the size/space as the SA-43 and sounds more up close and personal.  It can sound large however depending on the recording, but still ultimately is smaller than the SA-43.  I would say the SA-43 gives more of a 'you are there in the audience' feel, but be prepared for a laid back presentation (even with the presence switch on).

thank you for explaining.  when you say "laid back presentation" what do you mean? does it mean the high is not really high (like I listen to some newage music like kitaro with se530 the high and viceral is missing a lot)???

 

[yancem]

Probably late next week. I actually got them in already but the fit was not perfect - there's a long story behind it. Bottom line, I decided to send them back for a refit. That's still 3 out of 4 for Heir Audio with a perfect fit, so I guess I was due. 

I'll definitely post more pics and impressions once I receive them. To me, the 4.A seems like an upper-mid tier design with a price tag that's just barely above entry level. Many companies are doing dual or triple driver 2-way designs at this price level. Heir gives us a quad driver, 3-way design, with premium craftsmanship. Good stuff. 

if I decide to go with the 4A's what kind of extra costs should I expect for things like shipping, graphics, wood (if I go that route), etc?

 

[project86]

Quote:

if I decide to go with the 4A's what kind of extra costs should I expect for things like shipping, graphics, wood (if I go that route), etc?

 
It's all spelled out on the Heir website. Just select the 4.A and then add wood, or art, or whatever you want, and it will give you a total at the bottom. 

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

thank you for explaining.  when you say "laid back presentation" what do you mean? does it mean the high is not really high (like I listen to some newage music like kitaro with se530 the high and viceral is missing a lot)???

 
 

Meaning you are further back in the audience than with the 5-way, or most other CIEM.  Treble extension is average, up to around 16 - 17K, but the treble isn't prominent, nor is the upper midrange.  This is what leads to the spacious, laid back sound, so people that want something in your face, the SA-43 is not it.  It is kind of like the IE8's laid back presentation (not the warmth, maybe the IE80?) but with far superior imaging as well as depth to the presentation that the IE8 doesn't come close to.  And to complete the comparison, the SA-43 doesn't have the veil, with better clarity and detail.  ​

 ​

There are certain recordings that the SA-43 just does so well, especially 70s classic rock, some live performances, and a few other tracks that are mastered with good 3D space.  With these tracks, while the 5-way sounds good and offers more detail and resolution, the SA-43 just brings out a realistic representation that I would imagine from sitting back in the studio/live performance and just relaxing and enjoying.  Of course, the SA-43, nor any other custom IEM, has the ability to project or sound like a speaker, but I was surprised by how the SA-43, with a good desktop setup, approached the presentation of my LCD-2.​

 

[danpong]

Meaning you are further back in the audience than with the 5-way, or most other CIEM.  Treble extension is average, up to around 16 - 17K, but the treble isn't prominent, nor is the upper midrange.  This is what leads to the spacious, laid back sound, so people that want something in your face, the SA-43 is not it.  It is kind of like the IE8's laid back presentation (not the warmth, maybe the IE80?) but with far superior imaging as well as depth to the presentation that the IE8 doesn't come close to.  And to complete the comparison, the SA-43 doesn't have the veil, with better clarity and detail.  ​

 ​

There are certain recordings that the SA-43 just does so well, especially 70s classic rock, some live performances, and a few other tracks that are mastered with good 3D space.  With these tracks, while the 5-way sounds good and offers more detail and resolution, the SA-43 just brings out a realistic representation that I would imagine from sitting back in the studio/live performance and just relaxing and enjoying.  Of course, the SA-43, nor any other custom IEM, has the ability to project or sound like a speaker, but I was surprised by how the SA-43, with a good desktop setup, approached the presentation of my LCD-2.​

Sound really promising. I wish you do the review for JH3A system also so I can finally pull trigger on one of these high end system without feeling what could have been if I order yhe other one. So far as I read people who recently get JH3A really like it. Also since normally people who get high end ciem will use it with some kind of amp anyway so the specially tune amp for ciem might sound better than newer technology (4ways or 5ways cross over) ciems. I only have budget for one setup therefore I have been lurking around this forum and went on fullsize route for over a year. However, ultimately I want to bring great sound with me where ever I go.

 

[violinvirtuoso]

If you want to go even higher end then the JH-3A, there is always the upcoming Unique Melody Platform Pure.

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Sound really promising. I wish you do the review for JH3A system also so I can finally pull trigger on one of these high end system without feeling what could have been if I order yhe other one. So far as I read people who recently get JH3A really like it. Also since normally people who get high end ciem will use it with some kind of amp anyway so the specially tune amp for ciem might sound better than newer technology (4ways or 5ways cross over) ciems. I only have budget for one setup therefore I have been lurking around this forum and went on fullsize route for over a year. However, ultimately I want to bring great sound with me where ever I go.

 
I can only talk about possible sound signatures on the JH-3A based off my experience with the JH16, and I know that of all the CIEMs I have, the performance increases the most with an aftermarket cable.  I am interested to hear how the JH-3A compares with the custom IEMs I have.
 
Quote:

If you want to go even higher end then the JH-3A, there is always the upcoming Unique Melody Platform Pure.

 
I will have the opportunity to hear the UM PP6, but I wouldn't blindly say the PP6 is better than the JH-3A.

 

[danpong]

Joe have you ever listen to home setup with stein music harmonizer? I got a chance to listen to it at the hifi audio show in Thailand and really like the sound with that setup because it was so full and luscious sound no matter what type of music they played. Reason I mention this because I think after market cable like cardas for HD800 I had was the same great effect eventhough not as good. What after market iem cable do you recommend to have the same effect of full sourround and luscious sound like you are there at concert hall.

 

[yancem]

Quote:

 
It's all spelled out on the Heir website. Just select the 4.A and then add wood, or art, or whatever you want, and it will give you a total at the bottom. 

Wow they kind of nickle and dime you don't they!  It seems like your getting a good deal with 4 drivers and 3 way cross over for $450 but if you want to put the custom in CIEM you could easily double that price.  I was thinking about getting different colors for each shell and having the face plates reverse of the shells and possibly going with the clear canals.  I was also thinking of creating my own art work which would have been two or three colors.  All of that adds up to an extra $205 and that's not even getting into the cool wood options.  They even charge extra for the Wizard's signature!  This is gong to make my decisions even harder because I was really leaning toward the 4A but if I'm going to spend the dough on custom headphones, I really want to  make them CUSTOM and I was hoping to keep the price in the $500 ball park.  With overseas shipping costs and all of the add ons for the custom options I'd be looking at over $700.  I'm not sure I want to spend quite that much.  I guess I will have to take a look at the added costs from Alclair, CTM and 1964.

 

[Cassadian]

Quote:

Wow they kind of nickle and dime you don't they!  It seems like your getting a good deal with 4 drivers and 3 way cross over for $450 but if you want to put the custom in CIEM you could easily double that price.  I was thinking about getting different colors for each shell and having the face plates reverse of the shells and possibly going with the clear canals.  I was also thinking of creating my own art work which would have been two or three colors.  All of that adds up to an extra $205 and that's not even getting into the cool wood options.  They even charge extra for the Wizard's signature!  This is gong to make my decisions even harder because I was really leaning toward the 4A but if I'm going to spend the dough on custom headphones, I really want to  make them CUSTOM and I was hoping to keep the price in the $500 ball park.  With overseas shipping costs and all of the add ons for the custom options I'd be looking at over $700.  I'm not sure I want to spend quite that much.  I guess I will have to take a look at the added costs from Alclair, CTM and 1964.

 
Well.  Considering they offer one of the best if not the best craftsmanship of CIEM's, it's a premium that makes sense.  The Wizard's signature actually indicates that it was hand-made by the Wizard himself because he only signs those that he hand made.  Other CIEM companies offer good craftsmanship, but not excellent craftsmanship.

 

[Sinocelt]

Quote:

They even charge extra for the Wizard's signature! 

 
No, that's a mistake. It costs extra if you want the Wizard to build the CIEM himself (thus the signature). They should indeed clarify that!
 
[Edit:] I should have read a bit further, rather than repeat what Cassadian had said (and said better).

 

[yancem]

Quote:

 
Well.  Considering they offer one of the best if not the best craftsmanship of CIEM's, it's a premium that makes sense.  The Wizard's signature actually indicates that it was hand-made by the Wizard himself because he only signs those that he hand made.  Other CIEM companies offer good craftsmanship, but not excellent craftsmanship.

Ok, I get the Wizard's signature thing but I don't understand the charging extra to have different color shells and face plates as long as you are choosing from their standard colors.   How does it cost them anything to make one shell blue and the other red or to have different color face plates than the shells?  Maybe I am missing something but I don't get that.  And $85 for multi-color art/logos when most companies I've seen are charging $25-50 seems a little excessive also.  I understand that they are offering a good deal on the headphones themselves, which is one of the reasons I want to consider them but I would rather have a couple more "standard" options to choose from.  To me it's kind of like having to pay extra for A/C in car you are buying in Texas.  Who doesn't want A/C in the south?  Just build that into the base price.  Now the fancy wood face plates, charge a premium for those because no one else seems to offer anything close to them.  That I get.

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Ok, I get the Wizard's signature thing but I don't understand the charging extra to have different color shells and face plates as long as you are choosing from their standard colors.   How does it cost them anything to make one shell blue and the other red or to have different color face plates than the shells?  Maybe I am missing something but I don't get that.  And $85 for multi-color art/logos when most companies I've seen are charging $25-50 seems a little excessive also.  I understand that they are offering a good deal on the headphones themselves, which is one of the reasons I want to consider them but I would rather have a couple more "standard" options to choose from.  To me it's kind of like having to pay extra for A/C in car you are buying in Texas.  Who doesn't want A/C in the south?  Just build that into the base price.  Now the fancy wood face plates, charge a premium for those because no one else seems to offer anything close to them.  That I get.

 
They have to mix a color, use a tiny bit and then mix another color.  It is not uncommon for different colors on different channels, especially when the canals are colored differently (they have to mix the canal color and then cure that and then apply the next color, so more work).  The A/C comparison is this...do you want the dual climate A, or just one A/C temp for the entire car?  I know my wife runs colder than I, so it is nice to be able to turn my temp way down and hers up.
 
The Wizard does an amazing job, but there are others that aren't far behind.  However, not many offer wood (although UM and UE have started, and Aurisonics will as well).  You pay the Wizard for his unique, special ability to combine colors and make something look amazing, something you wouldn't have come up with yourself.