[tupac0306]

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The problem with upgrading to the 4A is that it starts out at the upper end of my budget and then there is the added shipping expenses but probably most importantly, I'm not sure I can order a set of Heir's and not get the sweet custom wood faceplates which raises up the cost even more.  I mean if your going to get custom headphones you have to get CUSTOM headphones, right!  Seriously though, thanks to both you and Joe for your input.  I have a lot of thinking to do. 

 For customized IEMs, always try to choose the highest model from a company.

 Otherwise your wondering of how they sound will cost you more than shipping and artwork

 

[Sinocelt]

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If going with Heir Audio, the 4.A seems like a better candidate than the 3.A for your needs.

 
I concur. 

 

[yancem]

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I concur. 

Besides the obvious extra driver, what stands out more about the 4A than the 3A?  Is it designed to have a different signature?

 

[Staal]

Really excited to have the Rocoo-BA soon. Currently it's at the custom office - I'm anxious about the level of pain they will inflict on my wallet 

 
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Besides the obvious extra driver, what stands out more about the 4A than the 3A?  Is it designed to have a different signature?

 
They're actually two different beasts all together. The 4.A is supposedly much more neutral and detailed than the 3.A. On the other hand the 3.A is supposed to be more warm and Hi-Fi-ish. (I want credit for coining that "word" if it becomes a thing! .. it probably won't.)

 

[Sinocelt]

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Besides the obvious extra driver, what stands out more about the 4A than the 3A?  Is it designed to have a different signature?

 
The 3.A has very good bass, mids, and highs, but the 4.A is more coherent throughout the spectrum. Because of this, music reproduction isn't just more neutral but also, in my opinion, more engaging.

 

[yancem]

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They're actually two different beasts all together. The 4.A is supposedly much more neutral and detailed than the 3.A. On the other hand the 3.A is supposed to be more warm and Hi-Fi-ish. (I want credit for coining that "word" if it becomes a thing! .. it probably won't.)

Ok, so now I am going to show my ignorance; what does it mean to be more Hi-Fi-ish (like the "word" by the way)?

 

[Cassadian]

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Ok, so now I am going to show my ignorance; what does it mean to be more Hi-Fi-ish (like the "word" by the way)?

 
I believe it is neutral with a tendency to be more warm than cold.  

 

[sunninho]

Hmm, "Hi-Fi-ish" can be another way of describing something nearly dynamic, but warm -- with some fun boominess, yet a bit more revealing than your average cans, ala Denon D2000?

 

[Cassadian]

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Hmm, "Hi-Fi-ish" can be another way of describing something nearly dynamic, but warm -- with some fun boominess, yet a bit more revealing than your average cans, ala Denon D2000?

 
I would say that for Hi-Fi-ish it gets even more general.  I was actually thinking of reference.  I would say Hi-Fi-ish is purely subjective with reference sonic qualities mixed in.

 

[sunninho]

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 For customized IEMs, always try to choose the highest model from a company.

 Otherwise your wondering of how they sound will cost you more than shipping and artwork

 
Naaaah, just get what you can afford now and see if CIEMs are right for you.  And besides, Heir Audio has a nice 2nd and 3rd owner program (that I'm a participant of) so you won't have too much to lose.

 

[Staal]

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Hmm, "Hi-Fi-ish" can be another way of describing something nearly dynamic, but warm -- with some fun boominess, yet a bit more revealing than your average cans, ala Denon D2000?

 
I was actually going for the "warm and fun". I should probably listen to some more Hi-Fi speakers - I don't recall the ones I've been listening to being very revealing. But then again, they we're all somewhat budget.

 
But yes, the 3.A is supposedly warm and musical. (Not that the 4.A isn't musical, but hopefully you get my point)

 

[1Jason4U]

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The first thing that came to mind reading your post was the LS8+, which I have a demo of and was doing some comparative listening last night (I will post about all the Rooth demos I have in a week or so).  I prefer a more laid back presentation for classical vs. a mid-forward presentation, and some others I think may be good fits include the Fabs and Alclair Reference at a lower price point, but the LS8+ outclasses them.  The UERM is another good options, and then there is the NT-6, but the UERM is warmer, but the quality of the NT-6 is higher.  
 
The LS8+ is on the bright side, so if you can let me know what headphones/IEMs you prefer, that could help me figure out if the sound signature is a good match.

 
 
I hate to say it, but the only "ear buds" I've ever had are Bose (please don't throw rotten tomatoes at the screen). I also have their headphones too. I have a pair of my dad's old JBL headphones from the 70s, but I mainly use my bose ear buds. SO, that being said, I wouldn't know one pair from the next. BUT, I can pick out idiosyncrasies during live performances. I've been gifted with perfect pitch ears, and I can easily pick out things wrong during a live performance. Too much bass, too punchy treble, out of tune, too heavy vibrato, etc. I can nitpick the things wrong and it quite frankly prevents me from truly enjoying the music. So, to cut it short, I mainly use my laptop or droid razr to listen to music with my bose ear buds. From all of your experience here (this goes for everyone here in this forum), I guess I'm just looking for IEMs that will last me years to come, that will allow me to listen to mostly 80s rock, ambient music, and classical music. Those 3 genres are the main ones what I'm looking to use the IEMs for. I read a lot of people getting pocket amps to power their IEMs, so I guess I'm in the market for those. I came across JH from reading forum after forum, and seeing how many of the groups I enjoy, own his IEMs (but I guess you could say that about UE as well). I'm the type that buys the most expensive top of the line, because if I don't, I end up kicking myself and start wondering what the "best" would have been like. I know that each person is different (and each of your ears is different for that matter), and I wish I could start a poll up, lol.
 
Thanks for your reply. Does this help any, lol?!

 

[piotrus-g]

Just received Rocoo BA ...and I have mixed feeling. Don't know for other high-end IEMs but for Merlins Studio-V does better job, despite hiss issue with studio.
 
I'll post more in rocoo/studio thread after I put more hours on Rocoo.

 

[average_joe]

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I hate to say it, but the only "ear buds" I've ever had are Bose (please don't throw rotten tomatoes at the screen). I also have their headphones too. I have a pair of my dad's old JBL headphones from the 70s, but I mainly use my bose ear buds. SO, that being said, I wouldn't know one pair from the next. BUT, I can pick out idiosyncrasies during live performances. I've been gifted with perfect pitch ears, and I can easily pick out things wrong during a live performance. Too much bass, too punchy treble, out of tune, too heavy vibrato, etc. I can nitpick the things wrong and it quite frankly prevents me from truly enjoying the music. So, to cut it short, I mainly use my laptop or droid razr to listen to music with my bose ear buds. From all of your experience here (this goes for everyone here in this forum), I guess I'm just looking for IEMs that will last me years to come, that will allow me to listen to mostly 80s rock, ambient music, and classical music. Those 3 genres are the main ones what I'm looking to use the IEMs for. I read a lot of people getting pocket amps to power their IEMs, so I guess I'm in the market for those. I came across JH from reading forum after forum, and seeing how many of the groups I enjoy, own his IEMs (but I guess you could say that about UE as well). I'm the type that buys the most expensive top of the line, because if I don't, I end up kicking myself and start wondering what the "best" would have been like. I know that each person is different (and each of your ears is different for that matter), and I wish I could start a poll up, lol.
 
Thanks for your reply. Does this help any, lol?!

 
Thanks for the additional information.  So, your foray into ear buds/IEMs consists of Bose and your comment that you can easily pick out wrong things during a live performance, so does that mean the Bose don't do things wrong, and your Razr/laptop does things right?  Based off my experience with Bose products, specifically their earphones, most products above $100 will be a step up while retaining proper pitch, etc.  If that is your current setup, maybe you should start with something other than custom IEMs just to get experience and see how the progression from the Bose buds to something more hi-fi goes, for example the GR07.
 
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Just received Rocoo BA ...and I have mixed feeling. Don't know for other high-end IEMs but for Merlins Studio-V does better job, despite hiss issue with studio.
 
I'll post more in rocoo/studio thread after I put more hours on Rocoo.

 
Unfortunately, I don't have the V anymore (I sent it back), but personally I couldn't deal with the hiss so it didn't matter how good it sounded.  That could be a synergy thing since the BA is fine with the LSX5, which is Rooth's hybrid.

 

[yancem]

I get the impression that when you start adding extra drivers, you may need a better/stronger source to get the most out of the higher end CIEM's.  Is this correct and if so, is there a normal line where if the CIEM's have X number of drivers your probably going to need/want an amp/DAC/better source?  I usually use my laptop or Creative Zen as a music source when when using headphones at work, on travel or when working out (at home I use speakers not headphones).  If I upgrade to CIEM's, I would probably look at getting a better portable music player but may have to live with what I have for a while depending on how much the new CIEM's cost.  It would kind of suck to spend $500 on headphones and not be able to get good sound out of them because my music player can provide enough umph to push the extra drivers.