[rainykchan]

Quote:

^So you have the EM4 already?

No I don't, but there's one thread reviewing the EM4 and the owner describes the EM4 as being bass shy, shrill and analytical.

 

[SowonAoD]

can you show me some images of CIEM in your ears, Joe?
Just take a look at hidition gallery, it seems that their custom does stick out the ear a bit, doesnt it? I realized before that I have never seen any picture shows how a CIEM is in proper place. And any of your CIEM got scratched on the faceplate? I'm afraid that if I go to bed wearing them the artwork would wear out!!

 

[dogears]

Ok, got that --- I thought you already have it
 
Quote:

The EM4 sounds really good, <snip>
 

 

 

[average_joe]

 
Quote:

My price range is around $1000 and I'm planning to get something from Earsonics at the moment. The EM4 sounds really good, but I've heard comments of it for being a bit bass shy and bright, and if that's true, I'm very sure that I wouldn't like it paired with my already bass shy and bright ipod. For the em3pro or the Mi-3, I'm afraid they don't deliver enough speed or detail for speedy jazz tracks. I still have doubts about the spiral ear products because I'm afraid that they are not warm enough for my taste. 
 
Actually, I still have the imod/ Rx combo with me, but I'm planning to sell them and get an ipod classic since I felt that the combo is an overkill for the DBA02 I'm using now. Does the addition of an amp add a jump in sq of customs? If that's the case, I might just stay with the combo since the 2nd hand price of the combo isn't satisfactory anyway. 

The EM4 is not bass shy but the bass isn't as enhanced as something like the JH16 and I feel the amount of bass is great, not too much not too little.  Also, the EM4 is brighter than the EM3 Pro and SM3 so combining that could lead to a different perception of the bass.  The deep bass is better as well as having better control from the EM4 but the EM3 Pro has a bit more mid-bass and speed wise the EM4 leaves the EM3 Pro behind.
 
Universal IEMs like the DBA-02 don't benefit much from an amp as they are very easy to drive, but many custom IEMs will benefit from a better source chain because they have more technical ability.  It would be a good ideal to keep the imod/Rx until you can compare with your custom IEM.
 
Quote:

can you show me some images of CIEM in your ears, Joe?
Just take a look at hidition gallery, it seems that their custom does stick out the ear a bit, doesnt it? I realized before that I have never seen any picture shows how a CIEM is in proper place. And any of your CIEM got scratched on the faceplate? I'm afraid that if I go to bed wearing them the artwork would wear out!!

I have not had a faceplate scratch, but then I take care of my custom IEMs and I will try to get some pictures soon...  As far as the artwork wearing off, it all depends on how it is done.  Graphics are usually under a layer of acrylic.

 

[speedingredline]

Quote:

The best way to figure that out is to get a bunch of universal IEMs and try to figure it out.  Also, figuring out the JH13 issue could save you some money, but also not having the JH16 molded for your ear could be reducing the amount of bass.  Do you think it is very bass heavy, especially in comparison with the JH13?
 

I have shied away from universals as I have yet to find a set that will actually stay in my ears. I am going to have the JH13s reshelled as I am not happy with the fit. The JH16s is questionable as they fit almost perfectly, can't say perfect, as I they are not molded for me. Yes I agree the bass is definitely heavier in the 16s than the 13s.
 
 

 

[rainykchan]

Joe, do you think the em4 pairs well with apple sound signature? even though I am using an imod/ Rx combo, lots of the traits of apple sound signature are kept.

 

[dogears]

Looks like the EM4 is for me...

but I'm not spending anymore

Have to be contented with my soon to arrive UEsf5v2c

Quote:

Also, the EM4 is brighter than the EM3 Pro and SM3 so combining that could lead to a different perception of the bass.

 

 

[average_joe]

 
Quote:

I have shied away from universals as I have yet to find a set that will actually stay in my ears. I am going to have the JH13s reshelled as I am not happy with the fit. The JH16s is questionable as they fit almost perfectly, can't say perfect, as I they are not molded for me. Yes I agree the bass is definitely heavier in the 16s than the 13s.

I see that you will get the Heir Audio 8.A, that should be a good comparison with the JH16.  And maybe you can get the JH16 adjusted vs. reshelled for a perfect fit.

 
Quote:

Joe, do you think the em4 pairs well with apple sound signature? even though I am using an imod/ Rx combo, lots of the traits of apple sound signature are kept.

I do think the EM4 pairs well with the Apple sound signature.  I have done a bunch of listening with my modded iPod -> Pico Slim and am using my iPhone at the moment and it isn't all that bad
 
Quote:

Looks like the EM4 is for me...

but I'm not spending anymore

Have to be contented with my soon to arrive UEsf5v2c

Yes, be content with the UEsf5...at least for a little while you save your $$$

 

[speedingredline]

Quote:

The best way to figure that out is to get a bunch of universal IEMs and try to figure it out.  Also, figuring out the JH13 issue could save you some money, but also not having the JH16 molded for your ear could be reducing the amount of bass.  Do you think it is very bass heavy, especially in comparison with the JH13?
 

 
Alright Joe, If I were to get a bunch of universals to play with, do you have some recommendations? I really do want to try out the W4, and maybe UM3x from Westone.
 
Thanks

 

[tupac0306]

Joe, does EM4 sounds brighter than SE 5 way?  What headphone does it sound most similar to? if you can name one? T1? because your little sound signature reviews gives me that guess.
 

 

[average_joe]

 
Quote:

Alright Joe, If I were to get a bunch of universals to play with, do you have some recommendations? I really do want to try out the W4, and maybe UM3x from Westone.
 
Thanks

First, universals are somewhat hard for me to compare with CIEMs as most CIEMs are just better and therefore things like attack/decay, dynamics, extension, etc are far superior, but here is a list:
- W4 from what I have read is probably the closest to the EM5
- SM3 is either a love it or hate it.  You either hear great space or muddy warmth and the sound is pretty much the opposite of the JH13/16.  The UM3X is similar and people either choose one or the other. Personally, I heard the UM3X as having a small soundstage which congested everything, not to mention I didn't think the dynamics were all that great but there are people that love it.
- FX700 to see how you like deep and enhanced dynamic bass
- CK10 which has quite possibly the best imaging for a universal, but has many other weaknesses.  The imaging should be in contrast to what the JHs provide.
- e-Q7 is a good choice and something I really liked when I had it.  When amped well (ALO Rx) it performed quite well
- RE272 is a great dynamic, but is on the leaner side
- EX1000 has more of a headphone sound and is also on the leaner side
- Turbine Pro Copper is bass heavy but overall pretty good.  A bit on the slow side and does best when amped well
 
I know that is a lot of different universal IEMs with a good amount of investment, but that should help you form a strong opinion on what you like and what you don't like.  They all have different combos of frequency response and attack/decay and spatial presentation. So, if you can figure out things like if you prefer a laid back sound or a more mid-forward sound, longer or shorter decay times, quicker or slower attack, etc. it should help with custom IEM choices.  If you do get some of the above make sure you get over the honeymoon stage where everything sounds great.
 
Quote:

Joe, does EM4 sounds brighter than SE 5 way?  What headphone does it sound most similar to? if you can name one? T1? because your little sound signature reviews gives me that guess.
 

Yes, the EM4 is brighter than the 5-way, but it is also more mid-forward and in your face which brings the treble more up close.  What headphones?  Not the Tesla T1, which doesn't have the warmth the EM4 has and is very expansive.  It is closer to the LCD-2, or maybe the new LCD-3 (but I don't know).  Comparing with the SM3 it is a bit brighter with a similar sound signature, but much more expansive with better clarity, focus, and detail.  I haven't heard the HD800 in quite a while, but that is the parallel Earsonics has made.

 

[Heret1c]

Quote:

 
 
Yes, the EM4 is brighter than the 5-way, but it is also more mid-forward and in your face which brings the treble more up close.  What headphones?  Not the Tesla T1, which doesn't have the warmth the EM4 has and is very expansive.  It is closer to the LCD-2, or maybe the new LCD-3 (but I don't know).  Comparing with the SM3 it is a bit brighter with a similar sound signature, but much more expansive with better clarity, focus, and detail.  I haven't heard the HD800 in quite a while, but that is the parallel Earsonics has made.
 

Hmm...sounds quite promising considering the fact I love the SM3 to bits and to my ears its one of  , if not THE, best universal IEM I have owned / heard. Am seriously looking forward to the EM4 review! Thanks for getting the EM4, joe!
 

 

[average_joe]

I can't say I disagree about the SM3, but there are several new universals I have not heard, for example the K3003 and PFE 232.  I will put it this way before my review...while I like the EM3 Pro, the EM4 is what I was hoping the EM3 Pro would have been after discovering the SM3.

 

[speedingredline]

Quote:

 

First, universals are somewhat hard for me to compare with CIEMs as most CIEMs are just better and therefore things like attack/decay, dynamics, extension, etc are far superior, but here is a list:
- W4 from what I have read is probably the closest to the EM5
- SM3 is either a love it or hate it.  You either hear great space or muddy warmth and the sound is pretty much the opposite of the JH13/16.  The UM3X is similar and people either choose one or the other. Personally, I heard the UM3X as having a small soundstage which congested everything, not to mention I didn't think the dynamics were all that great but there are people that love it.
- FX700 to see how you like deep and enhanced dynamic bass
- CK10 which has quite possibly the best imaging for a universal, but has many other weaknesses.  The imaging should be in contrast to what the JHs provide.
- e-Q7 is a good choice and something I really liked when I had it.  When amped well (ALO Rx) it performed quite well
- RE272 is a great dynamic, but is on the leaner side
- EX1000 has more of a headphone sound and is also on the leaner side
- Turbine Pro Copper is bass heavy but overall pretty good.  A bit on the slow side and does best when amped well
 
I know that is a lot of different universal IEMs with a good amount of investment, but that should help you form a strong opinion on what you like and what you don't like.  They all have different combos of frequency response and attack/decay and spatial presentation. So, if you can figure out things like if you prefer a laid back sound or a more mid-forward sound, longer or shorter decay times, quicker or slower attack, etc. it should help with custom IEM choices.  If you do get some of the above make sure you get over the honeymoon stage where everything sounds great.

 
Well that is quite the list, 2 of my choices are on that list, the W4 and the ck10. I expected to see the ex1000 on the list as well, but I dont know if I can bring myself to buy those. Today I enjoyed listening to some tunes on the following combo, S:flo2 -> sr-71b -> twag v2(SE)/jh16. I listened to some Tool, Madonna, Lo Fidelity All-stars, LMAO, Basement Jaxx, and Adele. I will have to say to the music really came alive, I was walking from building to building which are all ghost towns at the hours I work. I kept looking over my shoulder because I was hearing things in the music I never heard before. But I couldnt believe the clarity while listening to Adele, she just sang hear lungs out, lol. Then the battery died in the S:flo2. I switched to the iphone after that for some Metallica and justice for all, which was probably mp3 format, all previous mentioned music was flac. Used the twag v2/jh16 combo for that as well, then I tried the W3s and the JH13s, no comparison there, the 16s were the winners hand down. I couldnt even keep the W3 in my ears, just cant get a good fit.

 

[Heret1c]

Quote:

I can't say I disagree about the SM3, but there are several new universals I have not heard, for example the K3003 and PFE 232.  I will put it this way before my review...while I like the EM3 Pro, the EM4 is what I was hoping the EM3 Pro would have been after discovering the SM3.

That last statement about the EM4 was exactly what I was hoping to hear you say about them as I was rather disappointed after reading the EM3 pro review. The EM4 is sounding more and more like the CIEM I've dreamt about!
 
Agree on the K3003 and PFE323 but the price of admission for those are pretty steep unless I can find someone who has them here in Malaysia and is willing to let me audition them. I'd be more inclined to save the money towards the EM4....althought of late I've been playing with the idea of a UM reshell (maybe even add drivers) for the SM3. But I haven't read anything concrete in terms of reviews to convince me that's a good idea yet.