MrSpeakers Alpha PRIME: Impressions and Discussion Thread
Jan 14, 2015 at 5:33 AM Post #916 of 2,891
  Thanks for your impressions, do you feel the GO720 is a significant bottleneck in showing the capabilities of the Prime ? Or is it in the great but not excellent DAC/AMP combo  range ?
Anyone tried the Prime with the 'punching above its weight' Cayin C5 mobile amp ? Looking for transportable solutions if I go for it.

Originally Posted by M-83 


Hey Reddog,

Just to let you know, I'm thoroughly delighted with my Cayin C5 for portable Alpha Prime listening. Using High Gain I can't listen past 4.5-5 on volume its pretty loud.  There is a lovely openness to the sound, and actually going back to my NFB-15 although the sound with a desktop amp is superior, I'm now finding that I prefer the slightly more sparkly sound that my Fiio X5-Cayin C5 combo has. So, I'm thinking of selling my 10 week old Mad Dogs and NFB-15, with a view to using the money to get a slightly warmer desktop setup. I feel maybe the nfb-15-alpha prime combo is a touch too dark. Whereas my aKG K550s just killed my ears after 10 mins even without any amping,

I can not take my APs on holiday with me using X5 & C5 its an awesome portable setup. Recommended.

Best rgds
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 5:46 AM Post #917 of 2,891
Originally Posted by M-83 



Hey Reddog,


Just to let you know, I'm thoroughly delighted with my Cayin C5 for portable Alpha Prime listening. Using High Gain I can't listen past 4.5-5 on volume its pretty loud.  There is a lovely openness to the sound, and actually going back to my NFB-15 although the sound with a desktop amp is superior, I'm now finding that I prefer the slightly more sparkly sound that my Fiio X5-Cayin C5 combo has. So, I'm thinking of selling my 10 week old Mad Dogs and NFB-15, with a view to using the money to get a slightly warmer desktop setup. I feel maybe the nfb-15-alpha prime combo is a touch too dark. Whereas my aKG K550s just killed my ears after 10 mins even without any amping,


I can not take my APs on holiday with me using X5 & C5 its an awesome portable setup. Recommended.
Thanks I have been wanting to get a x5 for a while now. I will try to get the Cayin C5 sometime. Right now, I use a E12 for my portable gig, but the sound one some tracks can be congested. Thanks again for your recommendations.


Best rgds
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 5:46 AM Post #918 of 2,891
  Originally Posted by M-83 


Hey Reddog,

Just to let you know, I'm thoroughly delighted with my Cayin C5 for portable Alpha Prime listening. Using High Gain I can't listen past 4.5-5 on volume its pretty loud.  There is a lovely openness to the sound, and actually going back to my NFB-15 although the sound with a desktop amp is superior, I'm now finding that I prefer the slightly more sparkly sound that my Fiio X5-Cayin C5 combo has. So, I'm thinking of selling my 10 week old Mad Dogs and NFB-15, with a view to using the money to get a slightly warmer desktop setup. I feel maybe the nfb-15-alpha prime combo is a touch too dark. Whereas my aKG K550s just killed my ears after 10 mins even without any amping,

I can not take my APs on holiday with me using X5 & C5 its an awesome portable setup. Recommended.

Best rgds


Cool.
Yeah I read the C5+X5 were a great pairing and seems there is more than enough juice for a mobile amp for PRIME....'organic presentation and wider sound-staging' got my attention on that amp, plus the price.
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 7:49 AM Post #919 of 2,891
  Thanks for your impressions, do you feel the GO720 is a significant bottleneck in showing the capabilities of the Prime ? Or is it in the great but not excellent DAC/AMP combo  range ?
Anyone tried the Prime with the 'punching above its weight' Cayin C5 mobile amp ? Looking for transportable solutions if I go for it.

 
 
Just spent a session with the Primes and Audio GD NFB 11.32 which is relatively small. If that massive setup was 9/10 then I would give this one about 7.3/10. Considering my XLR cables in that setup cost about the same as this unit (maybe more), that's a pretty decent effort. 
 
With regards to your question about the GO, I think definitely so. It puts out decent sound at a decent volume but I doubt decent is what you want when you spend close to $1000 on a headphone. I believe the GO is a good all rounder and who knows, perhaps the GO 1000 would have done better since this is a planar headphone after all. However, from my experience, the GO is a fantastic partner with mid-fi headphones and excellent for the price and size. 
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 11:51 AM Post #920 of 2,891
Good choice.  I may sell of a lot of gear soon, but I'm pretty sure the Primes are staying put.  All the furor over new Hifiman and Audeze has me slightly amused, as the Primes surpass any of those cans I've heard, and by a wide margin.

YMMV, and all that!


The new Audeze cans don't appeal to me. If they're not LCD-2 level they're not likely to compete with the Alpha Prime. There's a fair bit of criticism of the EL-8 even at this early stage. I think the new Hifiman are likely to be out of my price range.
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 5:36 PM Post #921 of 2,891
 
Cool.
Yeah I read the C5+X5 were a great pairing and seems there is more than enough juice for a mobile amp for PRIME....'organic presentation and wider sound-staging' got my attention on that amp, plus the price.

Yeah I'm very impressed with X5+C5 with AP. Brilliant portable listening. I will deaf take my primes away with me on holiday now!
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 5:41 PM Post #922 of 2,891
Can I just suggest everyone have a listen to "Summer of Freedom" by 'Manual'.... it is off his album "Azure Vista".
 
Lush wide soundstage and is a great blend of EDM & guitars. IMO a perfect song for primes! I lose myself in music like this.
 
Here is a (sadly poor audio) live recording of the piece of music, though it doesn't do justice to a FLAC album version - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-JHCwQmnlg
 
Enjoy (a decent recording) !!
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 6:09 PM Post #923 of 2,891
Guys just like to point out a dedicated thread for sharing music to listen to on our primes here - http://www.head-fi.org/t/750830/mrspeakers-alpha-prime-discussion-thread-music-to-appreciate-and-hear-the-best-of-the-primes
 
Please lets start sharing our recommendations so we can all learn new music and bring even more enjoyment to our Prime time listening sessions
L3000.gif

 
Thx!
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 10:04 PM Post #924 of 2,891
I'd love to know what amps people are using to power their Alpha Primes.
 
Anyone using the Ember amp and like it?
 
I have an Asgard 2 and it powers my MDP just fine. We'll see how it does when I get my AP. I think it will work.
 
Am very interested in a tube amp. So I'm interested in any thoughts regarding this anyone might have.
 
Reddog, you seem to have a number of amps I'm interested in - Lyr 2 and Rag. Probably don't want to spend all the way to what a Rag costs. And want to try a tube amp. Love to hear you weigh in on this. Have you tried the Ember with Alpha Prime?
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 10:21 PM Post #925 of 2,891
I'd love to know what amps people are using to power their Alpha Primes.

Anyone using the Ember amp and like it?

I have an Asgard 2 and it powers my MDP just fine. We'll see how it does when I get my AP. I think it will work.

Am very interested in a tube amp. So I'm interested in any thoughts regarding this anyone might have.

Reddog, you seem to have a number of amps I'm interested in - Lyr 2 and Rag. Probably don't want to spend all the way to what a Rag costs. And want to try a tube amp. Love to hear you weigh in on this. Have you tried the Ember with Alpha Prime?

I have not tried the ember, however the lyr2 with my Telefunken E88CC platinum tubes drive my Alpha Prime's to fantastic levels. I still listen to the lyr, every night, to get my tube fix. The Ragnarok is just bloody great in balanced mode, but in single-ended mode I prefer my lyr2. I love the stuff Schiit Audio has created and I hope to get the Asgard 2, for my back porch, so I can check out the wildlife like otters and grey foxes. Audophilia is a Bain to my bloody wallet.:D
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 10:31 PM Post #926 of 2,891
  I'd love to know what amps people are using to power their Alpha Primes.
 
Anyone using the Ember amp and like it?
 
I have an Asgard 2 and it powers my MDP just fine. We'll see how it does when I get my AP. I think it will work.
 
Am very interested in a tube amp. So I'm interested in any thoughts regarding this anyone might have.
 
Reddog, you seem to have a number of amps I'm interested in - Lyr 2 and Rag. Probably don't want to spend all the way to what a Rag costs. And want to try a tube amp. Love to hear you weigh in on this. Have you tried the Ember with Alpha Prime?

The Lyr 2 has more power, which is arguably better for planars. Just know that it is far more picky with tubes than the LCD 2 and HE560 are. My golden lions don't go well with the Alpha Primes. That said...
 
The Asgard 2 will power it just fine, but there's a difference between "getting it loud enough" and "lots of head room with a sound that goes well with the amp." Otherwise, we'd just all use O2s/Magnis and be done with it (with the exception of tubes that purposely color music.)
 
In my opinion, the Burson Soloist (SL or normal) is amazing with the Alpha Primes. I use this combo with my HP-P1 (gotta run music through my ipad since I work on closed-network computers,) and it sounds quite wonderful.
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 10:37 PM Post #927 of 2,891
  The Lyr 2 has more power, which is arguably better for planars. Just know that it is far more picky with tubes than the LCD 2 and HE560 are. My golden lions don't go well with the Alpha Primes. That said...
 
The Asgard 2 will power it just fine, but there's a difference between "getting it loud enough" and "lots of head room with a sound that goes well with the amp." Otherwise, we'd just all use O2s/Magnis and be done with it (with the exception of tubes that purposely color music.)
 
In my opinion, the Burson Soloist (SL or normal) is amazing with the Alpha Primes. I use this combo with my HP-P1 (gotta run music through my ipad since I work on closed-network computers,) and it sounds quite wonderful.

Can you explain the "difference between lound and headroom"? I've found the O2/Magni have enough voltage and current for most headphones (including the O2 and Alpha Dog/Prime), and more expensive amp just seem to have different sound signatures. I don't really see how more power makes headphones sound better, at least in my experience comparing the O2 to far more expensive amps (WA7, Taurus MK2, etc).
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 11:09 PM Post #928 of 2,891
  Can you explain the "difference between lound and headroom"? I've found the O2/Magni have enough voltage and current for most headphones (including the O2 and Alpha Dog/Prime), and more expensive amp just seem to have different sound signatures. I don't really see how more power makes headphones sound better, at least in my experience comparing the O2 to far more expensive amps (WA7, Taurus MK2, etc).

 
From what I've seen, there isn't really a scientific article saying if power beyond the requirements make a difference, but many head-fiers believe in the concept of headroom & extra power can't hurt anything if you do not reach the point of blowing out your drivers.
 
If you don't hear a difference from more powerful amplifiers, just save your money :)
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 11:28 PM Post #929 of 2,891
  Can you explain the "difference between lound and headroom"? I've found the O2/Magni have enough voltage and current for most headphones (including the O2 and Alpha Dog/Prime), and more expensive amp just seem to have different sound signatures. I don't really see how more power makes headphones sound better, at least in my experience comparing the O2 to far more expensive amps (WA7, Taurus MK2, etc).

Keep in mind, I'm going to attempt to state this in the most neutral way possible.
 
In my experience, with normal dynamic headphones (like DT880, AKG's, ect ect)) more power does not make a damn bit of difference. Most dynamics don't ever reach power requirements high enough to warrant a heavy-duty amp, so you'll end up just buying an amp for its own "sound" (distortion.) Kind of like buying a tube amp or warm solid state to balance out the HD800's coldness...stuff like that. Again, this is my experience, but I found planar headphones react to more power in way that increases how well the bass sounds and feels as well as the soundstage size. A great example is my HE400s. The bass sounds like it is missing something out of both the O2 and the Magni (and they do sound the same to me,) but sound much much better out of the Asgard 2. However, besides the coloration other amps provide, I didn't notice an improvement when I moved onto a lot more expensive and more powerful amps. However, something like the Alpha Dog and LCD 2 sounded a tad souless out of the Magni/O2 and only a bit better out of the Asgard 2 (but not great.) Once I supplied more power, ala Lyr 2 and the Burson Soloist, I felt the bass a lot better than I did before.  Seeing as there is no proof besides the numerous accounts of people hearing the difference, it is all just subjective (though some people also state that planars need 150% more power than math would dictate...you can thank Audiobot for that.) YMMV. Headroom's definition seems to bounce from person to person, but I consider it "enough power to drive the headphones close to or at their dB maximum." Allows you enough room to say goodbye to your hearing while maintaining a nice control over your volume. Not to mention the benefits I mentioned for the planars.
 
Another example of "not enough power to a planar" is my Mad Dogs. They sound a bit lean in the bass on my Cayin C5 on high gain and bass boost, but sound nice and full on my Burson. But, as I said, YMMV.
 
Objectively, however, most people would say "if there's enough in the specs to get it to normal hearing range, it is driven sufficiently." However, that is both true yet a farce. If you try to drive the headphone to its maximum volume, but it starts distorting, than the amp doesn't have enough power to keep it from clipping (I.E., current is not enough.) That means it you're a lot closer to the amp's limit in power when you listen to it at normal levels than if you were listening to them through a more powerful amp. Because you're a lot closer, there's more noise and distortion. Despite it being incredibly subtle (and I think the THD is just below a percent for the Alpha Primes on the O2,) the distortion can sound wrong. Granted, a person shouldn't be able to tell something like this, but apparently humans can't see more than 60 FPS yet 144hz is a noticeable improvement over 60hz...so who knows what the brain picks up that we can't out-right tell is there (kind of like how it is arguably noticeable going from a 94/24 to a 192/24 DAC even though it shouldn't make a difference to our ears.) 
 
The irony in the objective argument is that "loud enough" is the basis for what to drive headphones do, despite that being a subjective measuring stick. Even though one person may think the normal listening level (85 dB,) another may think that is too low. 
 
Either way, outside what could or could not be true about more power with planars, an amp's color can help or hinder a headphone's sound.
 
Jan 14, 2015 at 11:42 PM Post #930 of 2,891
  Keep in mind, I'm going to attempt to state this in the most neutral way possible.
 
In my experience, with normal dynamic headphones (like DT880, AKG's, ect ect)) more power does not make a damn bit of difference. Most dynamics don't ever reach power requirements high enough to warrant a heavy-duty amp, so you'll end up just buying an amp for its own "sound" (distortion.) Kind of like buying a tube amp or warm solid state to balance out the HD800's coldness...stuff like that. Again, this is my experience, but I found planar headphones react to more power in way that increases how well the bass sounds and feels as well as the soundstage size. A great example is my HE400s. The bass sounds like it is missing something out of both the O2 and the Magni (and they do sound the same to me,) but sound much much better out of the Asgard 2. However, besides the coloration other amps provide, I didn't notice an improvement when I moved onto a lot more expensive and more powerful amps. However, something like the Alpha Dog and LCD 2 sounded a tad souless out of the Magni/O2 and only a bit better out of the Asgard 2 (but not great.) Once I supplied more power, ala Lyr 2 and the Burson Soloist, I felt the bass a lot better than I did before.  Seeing as there is no proof besides the numerous accounts of people hearing the difference, it is all just subjective (though some people also state that planars need 150% more power than math would dictate...you can thank Audiobot for that.) YMMV. Headroom's definition seems to bounce from person to person, but I consider it "enough power to drive the headphones close to or at their dB maximum." Allows you enough room to say goodbye to your hearing while maintaining a nice control over your volume. Not to mention the benefits I mentioned for the planars.
 
Another example of "not enough power to a planar" is my Mad Dogs. They sound a bit lean in the bass on my Cayin C5 on high gain and bass boost, but sound nice and full on my Burson. But, as I said, YMMV.
 
Objectively, however, most people would say "if there's enough in the specs to get it to normal hearing range, it is driven sufficiently." However, that is both true yet a farce. If you try to drive the headphone to its maximum volume, but it starts distorting, than the amp doesn't have enough power to keep it from clipping (I.E., current is not enough.) That means it you're a lot closer to the amp's limit in power when you listen to it at normal levels than if you were listening to them through a more powerful amp. Because you're a lot closer, there's more noise and distortion. Despite it being incredibly subtle (and I think the THD is just below a percent for the Alpha Primes on the O2,) the distortion can sound wrong. Granted, a person shouldn't be able to tell something like this, but apparently humans can't see more than 60 FPS yet 144hz is a noticeable improvement over 60hz...so who knows what the brain picks up that we can't out-right tell is there (kind of like how it is arguably noticeable going from a 94/24 to a 192/24 DAC even though it shouldn't make a difference to our ears.) 
 
The irony in the objective argument is that "loud enough" is the basis for what to drive headphones do, despite that being a subjective measuring stick. Even though one person may think the normal listening level (85 dB,) another may think that is too low. 
 
Either way, outside what could or could not be true about more power with planars, an amp's color can help or hinder a headphone's sound.

My main problem with that argument is that those amps seem to have a warmer character compared to the Magni and O2 (at least from my experience listening to them). 
 
As for the distortion argument, I could see that being the case for extremely hard to drive headphones. But the Alpha Dog (and I'm assuming the Alpha Prime?) are about as hard to drive as an LCD2, and the LCD2 has been shown to be easily driven from the O2. But maybe I'm not looking at the right figures. 
 

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