[PacoTaco]

  My main problem with that argument is that those amps seem to have a warmer character compared to the Magni and O2 (at least from my experience listening to them). 
 
As for the distortion argument, I could see that being the case for extremely hard to drive headphones. But the Alpha Dog (and I'm assuming the Alpha Prime?) are about as hard to drive as an LCD2, and the LCD2 has been shown to be easily driven from the LCD2. But maybe I'm not looking at the right figures. 

I think you mean easily from an O2. And for normal listening volumes, that is true, but it can't really drive it to full volume (that takes about 4W according to Audeze.) Not that you would ever WANT to reach that, but its there. As with any amp, the more power you output...the higher the THD and noise. That's why I brought up the point that the O2 can drive a headphone to a good volume, but a more powerful amp does the same without as much "strain" (as in, less distortion.) It isn't noticeable outright, but to some people it can bug them. I believe Tyll's measurements showed that the O2 had A LOT higher THD at higher output voltages compared to the Soloist.
 
I remember someone said the LCD 2 can be driven to 119 db with the O2 without clipping, which isn't the LCD 2's limit (but who would really realistically listen to that point?) Granted, I'm just playing devil's advocate and understand that I may be experiencing placebo in terms of more power = better low end and dynamics. Granted, I didn't really notice much beyond an amp's coloration changing anything when I had the T1's and K712.
 
And I don't know about the Burson having a "warmer" character. It's known as a musical sounding amp. I agree though about the Lyr 2, that keeps that warmness even if you switch tubes.

 

[atsq17]

I think that amplifier power is not just related to volume. 
 
Having sufficient high quality clean power delivered properly can make a big difference in sound quality. 
 
I'll leave it to the sound engineers to explain the science but I can honestly tell you that upgrading the O2 to ECP Torpedo (worth merely $300+) made a HUGE difference in wider more holographic soundstage, superior imaging, etc. 
 
It was like switching from clear 2d sound to an entirely new world of 3d sound. 
 
Different types of headphones prefer different types of amps. 
 
Planars usually appreciate some headroom in terms of power but even so, two different amps delivering the same power is unlikely to anything alike in characteristics. Especially if they have completely different topologies and parts. 

 

[TheChillburger]

  I think you mean easily from an O2. And for normal listening volumes, that is true, but it can't really drive it to full volume (that takes about 4W according to Audeze.) Not that you would ever WANT to reach that, but its there. As with any amp, the more power you output...the higher the THD and noise. That's why I brought up the point that the O2 can drive a headphone to a good volume, but a more powerful amp does the same without as much "strain" (as in, less distortion.) It isn't noticeable outright, but to some people it can bug them. I believe Tyll's measurements showed that the O2 had A LOT higher THD at higher output voltages compared to the Soloist.
 
I remember someone said the LCD 2 can be driven to 119 db with the O2 without clipping, which isn't the LCD 2's limit (but who would really realistically listen to that point?) Granted, I'm just playing devil's advocate and understand that I may be experiencing placebo in terms of more power = better low end and dynamics. Granted, I didn't really notice much beyond an amp's coloration changing anything when I had the T1's and K712.
 
And I don't know about the Burson having a "warmer" character. It's known as a musical sounding amp. I agree though about the Lyr 2, that keeps that warmness even if you switch tubes.

Oh sorry about the typo, I feel silly now lol.
I'll give a look to see if I can find Tyll's measurements. I could definitely see distortion changing the sound for the worse. 
What exactly do you mean when you say musical?

 

[TheChillburger]

  I think that amplifier power is not just related to volume. 
 
Having sufficient high quality clean power delivered properly can make a big difference in sound quality. 
 
I'll leave it to the sound engineers to explain the science but I can honestly tell you that upgrading the O2 to ECP Torpedo (worth merely $300+) made a HUGE difference in wider more holographic soundstage, superior imaging, etc. 
 
It was like switching from clear 2d sound to an entirely new world of 3d sound. 
 
Different types of headphones prefer different types of amps. 
 
Planars usually appreciate some headroom in terms of power but even so, two different amps delivering the same power is unlikely to anything alike in characteristics. Especially if they have completely different topologies and parts. 

Yeah, each amp having different distortion figures etc would definitely have an effect on the overall sound. My big thing is that while amps are a noticeable change, I find changing the headphone by far brings out the biggest change in sound quality / signature. But that might just be because I haven't found that "one" setup.

 

[PacoTaco]

Oh sorry about the typo, I feel silly now lol.
I'll give a look to see if I can find Tyll's measurements. I could definitely see distortion changing the sound for the worse. 
What exactly do you mean when you say musical?

The opposite of flat and analytical in the enjoyment sense. A good example would be the T1 or he560 vs the hd800. The HD800 is like a robot on some amps due to how serious/analytical it sounds (as in, it can sometimes seperate things too well,) but the T1/he560 sound more natural and cohesive. As if, while every sound has its own emphasis, it all just seems to flow and go together. As opposed to being brilliant and cold, musical could be said to be balanced with a slight bit of brilliance.

I don't know if that's truely what people mean, the definitions to these terms are a more or less random sometimes.

Edit: to respond what you just posted, that is the rule of thumb. The order is source, headphones, amps, then dacs in what can impact a sound signature (and improvement of quality.) While you can make slight improvements or detriments to how a headphone presents its sound, you can never really change the headphones sound, like you can't ever change a songs quality.

 

[tepet08]

musical= dang thats sound good....no?

 

[PacoTaco]

musical= dang thats sound good....no?

To me, yes. I'd consider the alpha prime and he560 very musical headphones while the Akg k812 and the hd800 are not. But some people really enjoy a more cold and "separate" presentation.

 

[tepet08]

now all this power talk make me thinking of grabbing a used  PB2 thats been available here in sunny Malaysia for a while.The owner want to sell it for about a little over US$300 PB2+DB2 combo.I'm still rocking my Prime straight from the DX90.C5,iDSD micro..now PB2...decision..decision...

 

[atsq17]

To me, yes. I'd consider the alpha prime and he560 very musical headphones while the Akg k812 and the hd800 are not. But some people really enjoy a more cold and "separate" presentation.

 
I think it all comes down to budget allocation. 
 
i own a T1 and my colleague has an HD800. I've heard setups where the HD800 was absolutely divine. No complaints on musicality etc. However, I've also heard setups where the HD800 sounded like a razor blade on my eardrums. 
 
It all depends on personal preferences but creating a setup you like does involve the entire chain. Sometimes even cables make a big difference. 
 
Before I recabled my T1 and used a dark-ish sounding DAC, I found the T1 far too trebly for my liking. Now with my PCM1704UK based DAC and my Crack OTL tube amp, AND my Silver/copper hybrid (not SPC) headphone cable, my T1 is close to perfection for me. I had previously tried the same setup with a different and inferior DAC and I ended up selling my T1. It was only later when I theorized that I actually liked the T1 except for the treble accentuation, that I got the idea of trying high quality dark sounding DACs; and BINGO!
 
As a shortcut, try to find out about recommended combos that others have tried. Another thing is to try as many possible setups when auditioning equipment. When trying a new headphone, try it on a variety of sources and amps. As many as you have the time and patience to try. Some combinations surprise you. I've also found that many reviews I've read are misleading and might not be to your taste. 
 
I read almost nothing but glowing reviews for the Alpha Dog but I could not make myself like no matter what I paired it with. Loved the Mad Dogs though. 
 
The O2 was one of THE best entry level amps I've ever tried but some people make it sound like it's an end-game setup when it's more like the entry point. 
 
I think the discovery process is half the fun in this "game". 

 

[Jazic]

I have a few things I'd like to share about my Alpha Primes. First off I've done a few simple mods that are easy and reversible. 
 
First off is a y splitter cinch. It's a simple celtic knot using 550 paracord. 
 

 
Next is some colored electric tape to help line up the pins when plugging in. I carry these back and forth from work to home so having an easy guide is nice. I plan on using some fingernail polish on the cable soon (NOT on the headphone itself) to look better than having to use tape to make it stick.
 

 
Lastly is foam square layout. I don't have a pic of it yet but the best positioning I've found is two dots on each cup. One at the top and one at the bottom. I love the sparkle that these cans have any I've found any other positioning seems to veil those frequencies that I like so much. I'm using a Lyr 2 and Uberfrost and Magni 2 Uber and Modi 2 Uber at work. 

 

[greenkiwi]

I went to the AudioVision SF moving/opening party last night and got to hear both the AD and AP.  They were both very comfortable and sounded great.  The listening environment wasn't great, but did demonstrate just how good the isolation of these headphones are.  They were both being driven nicely by a WA5.  I definitely want to go do another listening session when I can sit down and listen for longer with my own music.  In my short listening session, I'd have gone with the AP, feeling like the upgrade was worth the price.
 
It was also really nice to meet and talk with Dan.  @mrspeakers thanks for making the trip up.

 

[mrspeakers]

  I went to the AudioVision SF moving/opening party last night and got to hear both the AD and AP.  They were both very comfortable and sounded great.  The listening environment wasn't great, but did demonstrate just how good the isolation of these headphones are.  They were both being driven nicely by a WA5.  I definitely want to go do another listening session when I can sit down and listen for longer with my own music.  In my short listening session, I'd have gone with the AP, feeling like the upgrade was worth the price.
 
It was also really nice to meet and talk with Dan.  @mrspeakers thanks for making the trip up.

 
It was a pleasure!  I always enjoy headphone events, it's never failed to be fun and interesting.  

 

[greenkiwi]

   
It was a pleasure!  I always enjoy headphone events, it's never failed to be fun and interesting.  

Your headphones were about the only item in the store that I could ever hope of reasonably attaining. 
 
I was extremely impressed with how they felt on and their build quality.  And the most surprising thing was exactly how much they isolated.  I've tried a number of other headphones and they don't isolate nearly as well as the AD/AP do.  Aside from limited listening time and having to stand up, I didn't feel like any background sound was interrupting my listening experience.  

 

[wahsmoh]

Your headphones were about the only item in the store that I could ever hope of reasonably attaining. 

I was extremely impressed with how they felt on and their build quality.  And the most surprising thing was exactly how much they isolated.  I've tried a number of other headphones and they don't isolate nearly as well as the AD/AP do.  Aside from limited listening time and having to stand up, I didn't feel like any background sound was interrupting my listening experience.  

The Alpha Dogs isolate nearly as well as my Bose QC25 even when music isn't playing. The active noise cancellation is better at pinpointing problem external noises like high frequencies in voices and removing the drone of my airplane flight. For passive noise isolation it would be hard to do better than the AD or AP for a full sized can

 

[MrSpeakersPeter]

I just took over the job of making a guide for the tuning dots from Dan. I will be including frequency response graphs to go along with the different configurations so you can actually see what they do empirically 

 I hope to have it done in the next few weeks.