Meier Audio Quickstep (also Stepdance and 2Stepdance) Discussion and Impressions Thread
Jul 19, 2011 at 9:52 AM Post #1,636 of 3,070
> If I switch it to 15V and connect it to the DC jack of the Stepdance, would it overdrive the Stepdance?
 
Not if the supply is properly regulated.
 
However, with a non-regulated supply the output voltage at low loads may well be substantial higher than 15V. If you do have a multimeter you may check the voltage first before you connect to the amp.
 
You would not be the first one ruining an amp!!
 
Cheers
 
Jan
 
Jul 19, 2011 at 10:19 AM Post #1,637 of 3,070

Or the last Jan, LoL, the Mascot is 15v regulated and linear, quite cheap, just the ticket.
I have one myself, it beefs up the sound spectrum very nicely.
Quote:
> If I switch it to 15V and connect it to the DC jack of the Stepdance, would it overdrive the Stepdance?
 
Not if the supply is properly regulated.
 
However, with a non-regulated supply the output voltage at low loads may well be substantial higher than 15V. If you do have a multimeter you may check the voltage first before you connect to the amp.
 
You would not be the first one ruining an amp!!
 
Cheers
 
Jan



 
 
Jul 19, 2011 at 1:00 PM Post #1,638 of 3,070
I am using this, does it look like it is regulated? It also says overload protection so it should be safe?

http://www.maxtronpower.com/ua100d.php?lang=en
 
Jul 19, 2011 at 6:30 PM Post #1,639 of 3,070
 
Hi Axcelon,
 
Quote:
I now have the original StepDance + XP8000/WI15 setup. 
 
[snip]
 
 
The WI15 adapter produces an audible hiss, implying a switch-mode voltage reducer.  This means that the voltage it supplies (which is only designed to be good enough for a power supply for a laptop) is not a pure, near constant voltage, which is the point of using a battery (since there is no "noise" under those conditions).  Worse, the fact that I can hear the hiss of the adapter implies that the distortion of its supplied voltage has significant components in the audible range.  The buffering of the SD should mitigate this to a fair degree, however I was immensely impressed with the 12V source from the XP8000.
 
I know what the physics and EE predict in these situations.
 
Zilch0md, do you still have your 15V pure battery rigs?  Would you be able to compare the WI15 to them?  I'd be curious to hear what you have to say.
 
The WI15 might benefit from adding a pi-filter stage between the 15V output and the SD, for maximum sonic performance while supplying 15V over the discharge range of the battery.
 
Make sense?


I find your assumptions to be reasonable, given your observations, but to my knowledge, you're the first person who has heard a hiss coming from the XPAL Willy Cable WI15, when used with the Stepdance.  Like ianmedium, and apparently several other WI15-equipped Stepdance users who have posted their findings to this thread, all I hear is an inky black silence with the WI15 (in the absence of a signal).  In fact, that's all I hear with the Stepdance in any power-supply configuration I've tried.  I need to qualify that statement, however, by saying that I have not purchased or used any switching power supplies - only regulated, linear power supplies.  
 
It could be, as you have suggested, that the XP8000 + WI15 is indeed a switching regulator, but my understanding is that switch-mode power supplies don't generate heat the way a linear regulator does because they are inherently more efficient and I've always found the WI15 to get warm to the touch when in operation, which suggests that it might be using a resistor to induce ohmic losses for the sake of regulating the voltage, rather than pulsing the input voltage to generate a the desired 15-Volt output.  Still, I'm willing to say that the fact that the WI15 gets warm to the touch, is not in itself proof that it is not a switch-mode device.
 
All that said, I think Jan Meier would agree that a switched-mode power supply is OK to use with the Stepdance, though not ideal, as long as it is regulated, and of course, does not produce an audible buzzing sound with your headphones.  Unregulated switch-mode PSU's should be avoided entirely.  Regulated linear PSU's are preferred.
 
Regarding your request that I compare my pure 15-Volt battery solutions to the XP8000 + WI15 solution, I can tell you I do so with great frequency, sometimes using the 15-Volt RC LiPo batteries (in my "walkabout" setup) when outdoors, or doing chores around the house, walking the dog, lying in the hammock on our deck, etc., but almost as frequently use the XP8000 with WI15 as my "desktop" power supply (disconnected from the AC charger) whenever I'm in my easy chair in the den.   I also use the XP8000 and WI15 with my "travel rig" when away from home.  
 
So...  I go back and forth between both power sources frequently and I'm happy to say, I've never heard any difference between the two 15-Volt solutions - not with my LCD-2's anyway.
 
What headphones are you using?
 
Since you've ruled out the XP8000 itself as a source for the noise you're hearing (via the 12-Volt cable), it seems that only your WI15 is suspect.
 
I have a spare WI15 cable that I could lend you briefly if you'd like to compare it to the one you have.  Send me a PM with your mailing address and I can have it in the mail tomorrow.
 
Mike
 
 
Jul 19, 2011 at 6:45 PM Post #1,640 of 3,070

Hi googleli,
 
Quote:
I am using this, does it look like it is regulated? It also says overload protection so it should be safe?

http://www.maxtronpower.com/ua100d.php?lang=en


I think most of variable-voltage universal supplies are regulated, but switched-mode power supplies.  As long as it's regulated and you don't hear any noise you're probably OK, but the page at the link you provided doesn't indicate whether it's regulated, so you might want to play it safe and select the 12-Volt output instead of 15-Volt - especially given that 15-Volts is at the very limit of what the Stepdance can tolerate.  .  
 
I don't like the idea of using any of those variable-output supplies because you're just one button push away from selecting the wrong voltage.  I would encourage you to purchase a dedicated 15-Volt linear regulated supply.
 
Mike
 
 
Jul 20, 2011 at 12:47 AM Post #1,641 of 3,070
i'm surprised i'm not seeing more fully diy power supply solutions in this thread (read seeing ANY). at these low voltage and current levels the world is your oyster and a cheapish, high quality and reasonably compact low noise linear regulator solution, that beats these cobbled together commercial offerings could be made for not much more than 50-75 dollars max including transformer and rudimentary case. in general these things you are looking at/using are not designed for audio
 
 
you could make one for considerably less if you scrimp on case, but if you intend to travel with it, best to make it look respectable for the anti-terror guys lol. this could be made to accept battery, or AC with the flick of a switch. a suitable 10va transformer could be had from Antek for 10 bucks. you could go all out with a shunt reg, but that means heatsinking; regs are fun!! the actual reg section and reservoir caps alone, could just about fit in a matchbox with the right choice of components (not the shunt reg)
 
 
Jul 20, 2011 at 1:01 AM Post #1,642 of 3,070
Since the 2Stepdance uses the same opamps as the Jazz could it also be biased into Class A at the expense of battery life?
 
Jul 20, 2011 at 1:31 AM Post #1,643 of 3,070


Quote:
i'm surprised i'm not seeing more fully diy power supply solutions in this thread (read seeing ANY). at these low voltage and current levels the world is your oyster and a cheapish, high quality and reasonably compact low noise linear regulator solution, that beats these cobbled together commercial offerings could be made for not much more than 50-75 dollars max including transformer and rudimentary case. in general these things you are looking at/using are not designed for audio
 
 
you could make one for considerably less if you scrimp on case, but if you intend to travel with it, best to make it look respectable for the anti-terror guys lol. this could be made to accept battery, or AC with the flick of a switch. a suitable 10va transformer could be had from Antek for 10 bucks. you could go all out with a shunt reg, but that means heatsinking; regs are fun!! the actual reg section and reservoir caps alone, could just about fit in a matchbox with the right choice of components (not the shunt reg)
 



I would be impressed if someone could fit such a device inside the battery compartment. I asked many many pages ago why didn't someone cook up something like a sigma25 from AMB and use that as a power source.
 
Jul 20, 2011 at 1:34 AM Post #1,644 of 3,070
'Bout time someone makes some audiophile grade power packs and connectors to benefit the crowd.
 
Jul 20, 2011 at 2:00 AM Post #1,645 of 3,070
the main thing about doing it commercially will be staying within the rather wide variance of each country's laws and safety regulations. Those regulations are probably that is why Jan is staying away from it, as it might be too much trouble for too little sales (sorry if i'm putting words in your mouth there Jan). The reg and rectifier section could EASILY fit in the battery compartment, but you would need to use a regular AC wallwart with just the transformer in it. There us no chance of fitting a transformer in there too, but having this external is best anyway.
 
one thing i wonder about though, is with quite a bit of capacitance at the input, this will slow down any high speed regulator considerably, some will not like it at all.
 
Armaegis 
 
yeah i saw your post, but notice nothing was ever done, tbh though, as good as the Amb stuff is, it could never be called compact; in fact that is my main gripe with the sigma11/22, 
 
Jul 20, 2011 at 2:20 AM Post #1,646 of 3,070
I'm only an amateur at the DIY stuff, but are there any smd designs that work similarly? AMB stuff seems to be predominantly through hole to make it easier for DIYers.
 
Jul 21, 2011 at 5:27 AM Post #1,647 of 3,070
 
Hi Axcelon,
 

I find your assumptions to be reasonable, given your observations, but to my knowledge, you're the first person who has heard a hiss coming from the XPAL Willy Cable WI15, when used with the Stepdance.  Like ianmedium, and apparently several other WI15-equipped Stepdance users who have posted their findings to this thread, all I hear is an inky black silence with the WI15 (in the absence of a signal).  In fact, that's all I hear with the Stepdance in any power-supply configuration I've tried.  I need to qualify that statement, however, by saying that I have not purchased or used any switching power supplies - only regulated, linear power supplies.  
 
It could be, as you have suggested, that the XP8000 + WI15 is indeed a switching regulator, but my understanding is that switch-mode power supplies don't generate heat the way a linear regulator does because they are inherently more efficient and I've always found the WI15 to get warm to the touch when in operation, which suggests that it might be using a resistor to induce ohmic losses for the sake of regulating the voltage, rather than pulsing the input voltage to generate a the desired 15-Volt output.  Still, I'm willing to say that the fact that the WI15 gets warm to the touch, is not in itself proof that it is not a switch-mode device.
 
All that said, I think Jan Meier would agree that a switched-mode power supply is OK to use with the Stepdance, though not ideal, as long as it is regulated, and of course, does not produce an audible buzzing sound with your headphones.  Unregulated switch-mode PSU's should be avoided entirely.  Regulated linear PSU's are preferred.
 
Regarding your request that I compare my pure 15-Volt battery solutions to the XP8000 + WI15 solution, I can tell you I do so with great frequency, sometimes using the 15-Volt RC LiPo batteries (in my "walkabout" setup) when outdoors, or doing chores around the house, walking the dog, lying in the hammock on our deck, etc., but almost as frequently use the XP8000 with WI15 as my "desktop" power supply (disconnected from the AC charger) whenever I'm in my easy chair in the den.   I also use the XP8000 and WI15 with my "travel rig" when away from home.  
 
So...  I go back and forth between both power sources frequently and I'm happy to say, I've never heard any difference between the two 15-Volt solutions - not with my LCD-2's anyway.
 
What headphones are you using?
 
Since you've ruled out the XP8000 itself as a source for the noise you're hearing (via the 12-Volt cable), it seems that only your WI15 is suspect.
 
I have a spare WI15 cable that I could lend you briefly if you'd like to compare it to the one you have.  Send me a PM with your mailing address and I can have it in the mail tomorrow.
 
Mike
 


I'm not sure if this has been answered or not since I just came back from work and I'm too ultrasupermega tired to read through the rest of the thread.

I heard a whining noise from my WI15 as well, but I thought it was normal.......... excuse my lack of knowledge with these things... (not in the science department in school.) :p
 
Jul 21, 2011 at 5:07 PM Post #1,648 of 3,070
 
Hi GG,
 
Quote:
I'm not sure if this has been answered or not since I just came back from work and I'm too ultrasupermega tired to read through the rest of the thread.

I heard a whining noise from my WI15 as well, but I thought it was normal.......... excuse my lack of knowledge with these things... (not in the science department in school.) :p

 
Suddenly we have two WI15 users with this problem that we've not heard about before.  Which headphones were you using with the Stepdance and WI15?
 
Mike
 
 
 
 
Jul 21, 2011 at 7:50 PM Post #1,649 of 3,070
That's a very generous offer, but I don't think I have a bad unit.  The hiss is not heard through the headphone audio system--rather the WI15 makes an audible hiss while operating that can be heard easily in a quiet room.  It's not loud, but it's there.
 
My setup is:
Apple Lossless
iMod
SXC ALO iMod cable
SD w/XP8000 & WI15
Audeze LCD-2
 
More to follow, gotta run . . . one final thought; a function generator, oscilloscope and high quality comparator would provide ample quantitative data for power source comparisons under various dynamic condition sets--essentially waveform distortion as a function of waveform, voltage source, and gain.
 
Ah, thanks Jan for the data on the LC filtration on the SD2, always a concern for non-battery voltage sources.
 
Cheers!
 
Jul 21, 2011 at 8:20 PM Post #1,650 of 3,070
That's a very generous offer, but I don't think I have a bad unit.  The hiss is not heard through the headphone audio system--rather the WI15 makes an audible hiss while operating that can be heard easily in a quiet room.  It's not loud, but it's there.
 
My setup is:
Apple Lossless
iMod
SXC ALO iMod cable
SD w/XP8000 & WI15
Audeze LCD-2
 
More to follow, gotta run . . . one final thought; a function generator, oscilloscope and high quality comparator would provide ample quantitative data for power source comparisons under various dynamic condition sets--essentially waveform distortion as a function of waveform, voltage source, and gain.
 
Ah, thanks Jan for the data on the LC filtration on the SD2, always a concern for non-battery voltage sources.
 
Cheers!


Ahh, got you! I think you may still have a problem with the unit as i just plugged mine in in a dead silent room and all I could hear was a faint electrical noise a bit like a light bulb but it was so quiet I could only hear it an inch or closer to my ear. anything further away and I could hear nothing. Hope that helps!
 

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