[fokta]

Is it the believer that should test their belief or the non believer that should quench their doubt?

It really difficult to explain, except the person him/herself try them self.
Even with the same device, cable, music file, IEM etc, the reception in the ear and brain will be different.

 

[bobbooo]

Is it the believer that should test their belief or the non believer that should quench their doubt?

Both! Testing beliefs and healthy scepticism is the route to knowledge and so truth.

 

[superuser1]

Of course that was a rhetorical statement... Self doubt in other words!

 

[hakuzen]

Could you ask him to measure their resistance?

i've already measured cables 125, 165-172, 170-171, 173-174, and 175 (check my list of measurements, parallel capacitance included).
and it's easy to calculate approximated resistance for 4 cores mix of AG-GD (AgAu) 28AWG wire + cardas copper litz 23.5 AWG: around 275mΩ for AgAu signals (positive) and around 110mΩ for cardas signals (ground/negative).
when i started measuring resistance of cables, i was believing that resistance was the essential, if not unique, parameter to consider.
if you compare up-occ copper with other copper wires, you'll find out resistance is lower in up-occ wires, if both are identical gauge (thickness). i measured this comparing up-occ copper solid wire and ofc solid copper wire (and the difference was noticeable).
but if you compare different thickness, of course you'll get lower resistance from the thicker wire. for example, cable 125, 4 cores, measures the lowest resistance in my list, thanks to the thickness of the conductor. while cable 175, 8 cores, measure a bit more than double resistance than 125, because the conductors are much more thinner. cables 065 (jcally, 4 cores) or cables 053 (nicehck, 8 cores) also measure quite lower resistance than cable 175.
and, however, when you make AB between cables 065 or 053 and 175, volume matched or not, using quality gear, it's very difficult to ignore the difference of sound quality (these are the ABX tests i plan to do, i'm pretty sure i'll pass them 100%).
so, although you can't believe it, forgive me for being pretty sure than other parameters than pure resistance are involved in the sound you get with cables.

Hey Hakuzen, much appreciation for the work you put into that detailed list of cables! Wowie!

I was going through it all and I have a question. I saw in the KZ section that you had tested the 8C Jcally and was wondering if you've tested this one at all? I didn't see it on the list. Ive kinda had my eye on it for a couple weeks now.
JCALLY Silver JC16 6N OFC 16 Shares 480 Cores
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/sTY8W0qy

thanks for your appreciation =))
i've not tried it, so 16 cores version is not in my list.
what i don't like from these jcally cables is the jack they use. it's one of the cheapest worst i've seen, and found some solder issues on them, besides of trn cables issues (check my list).
but they allow qdc/zsn termination.
flush 2pin termination of cheap niceHck wires are not angled and will stick a bit more, but better jack and higher chance of getting the 16 cores properly soldered. try to check these cables, because i think nicehck added qdc/zsn termination to some of them, iirc.

Hakuzen you should write a book!!

.. or maybe my friend should write it

Is it the believer that should test their belief or the non believer that should quench their doubt?

Both! Testing beliefs and healthy scepticism is the route to knowledge and so truth.

always healthy skeptical, but open minded, is my motto, and what i used when fronted cables experience

 

[SinisterDev]

thanks for your appreciation =))
i've not tried it, so 16 cores version is not in my list.
what i don't like from these jcally cables is the jack they use. it's one of the cheapest worst i've seen, and found some solder issues on them, besides of trn cables issues (check my list).
but they allow qdc/zsn termination.
flush 2pin termination of cheap niceHck wires are not angled and will stick a bit more, but better jack and higher chance of getting the 16 cores properly soldered. try to check these cables, because i think nicehck added qdc/zsn termination to some of them, iirc.


Thanks Hakuzen, that's what i needed to know! I wasn't sure if the jack on the 16C is different than that of the cheapo one they use on the 8C. It looks slightly different. But I'll check out those Nicehck cables you recommended!

 

[hakuzen]

thanks for your appreciation =))
i've not tried it, so 16 cores version is not in my list.
what i don't like from these jcally cables is the jack they use. it's one of the cheapest worst i've seen, and found some solder issues on them, besides of trn cables issues (check my list).
but they allow qdc/zsn termination.
flush 2pin termination of cheap niceHck wires are not angled and will stick a bit more, but better jack and higher chance of getting the 16 cores properly soldered. try to check these cables, because i think nicehck added qdc/zsn termination to some of them, iirc.


Thanks Hakuzen, that's what i needed to know! I wasn't sure if the jack on the 16C is different than that of the cheapo one they use on the 8C. It looks slightly different. But I'll check out those Nicehck cables you recommended!

i only got the plain terminated jack for jcally 066. got the rugged finished version for all the jcally rest (065), despite of the jack showed in the pics was plain finished. anyway, it's the same jack, just different outer grip part.

checked nicehck cables and i was wrong. almost none of their cheap cables gives you qdc termination option. my bad. hope most of the new cables showing up start to allow qdc option, because many iems use that termination now (KZs, CCAs, Blon-03, QDCs,...).
however, i think some new affordable cables, not in my list, have qdc/zsn option, besides of jcally and trn. search further in aliexpress

 

[SinisterDev]

i only got the plain terminated jack for jcally 066. got the rugged finished version for all the jcally rest (065), despite of the jack showed in the pics was plain finished. anyway, it's the same jack, just different outer grip part.

checked nicehck cables and i was wrong. almost none of their cheap cables gives you qdc termination option. my bad. hope most of the new cables showing up start to allow qdc option, because many iems use that termination now (KZs, CCAs, Blon-03, QDCs,...).
however, i think some new affordable cables, not in my list, have qdc/zsn option, besides of jcally and trn. search further in aliexpress

Ah, yeah, I see a number of them offer 2 pin but not qdc. However this C16- 1,2 and 3 all offer qdc. But they're a bit more pricey. Still under that $40 mark though! This would be about the limit I'd spend on a cable. Ive got a $7 off coupon plus their "fan discount". I may decide to get that. It would fit most of the IEMS I own.
NICEHCK C16-3 16 Cores High Purity Copper Cable 3.5/2.5/4.4mm Plug MMCX/2Pin/QDC/NX7 Connector For KZCCA TFZ QDC NICEHCK NX7/DB3
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/DAPSgGNE

 

[Makahl]

Have you guys tested the VE Basic DI 5n OFC? https://www.veclan.com/engappliance_sel_one?eng_ApplianceVo.eac_id=38

It seems lightweight almost like Linum stuff and it hits the max budget I'd pay for a cable $30. If you guys know another similar but cheaper, let me know!

 

[fokta]

I find the adapter have quite high impedance, but I dont have the tools to measure it.

Somehow the adapter is so good looking, that it clouds the cable or the IEM...
hahaha...

 

[bobbooo]

i've already measured cables 125, 165-172, 170-171, 173-174, and 175 (check my list of measurements, parallel capacitance included).
and it's easy to calculate approximated resistance for 4 cores mix of AG-GD (AgAu) 28AWG wire + cardas copper litz 23.5 AWG: around 275mΩ for AgAu signals (positive) and around 110mΩ for cardas signals (ground/negative).
when i started measuring resistance of cables, i was believing that resistance was the essential, if not unique, parameter to consider.
if you compare up-occ copper with other copper wires, you'll find out resistance is lower in up-occ wires, if both are identical gauge (thickness). i measured this comparing up-occ copper solid wire and ofc solid copper wire (and the difference was noticeable).
but if you compare different thickness, of course you'll get lower resistance from the thicker wire. for example, cable 125, 4 cores, measures the lowest resistance in my list, thanks to the thickness of the conductor. while cable 175, 8 cores, measure a bit more than double resistance than 125, because the conductors are much more thinner. cables 065 (jcally, 4 cores) or cables 053 (nicehck, 8 cores) also measure quite lower resistance than cable 175.
and, however, when you make AB between cables 065 or 053 and 175, volume matched or not, using quality gear, it's very difficult to ignore the difference of sound quality (these are the ABX tests i plan to do, i'm pretty sure i'll pass them 100%).
so, although you can't believe it, forgive me for being pretty sure than other parameters than pure resistance are involved in the sound you get with cables.

I was talking about the resistance of the very expensive cables your friend has tried, apart from the ones on your list. I know this can be estimated, but it would be interesting to get measured values to confirm their composition/purity.

It's not that I stubbornly can't believe other parameters other than resistance can cause audible sound changes – I can, and would believe this, if I see scientifically and statistically valid evidence for it, in the form of volume-matched ABX tests. So I'm very much looking forward to your results, with an open mind A good scientist (or any rationalist) is always open to change their mind, when they are presented with concrete evidence or reasons contrary to their beliefs. As a belief is an assertion of truth, much more important than any individual belief is the belief-forming process you follow, and the scientific method has been historically the most reliable belief-forming process in guiding us to truth, so it is that process I follow over any other.

 

[hakuzen]

I find the adapter have quite high impedance, but I dont have the tools to measure it.
Somehow I find the adapter is so good looking, that it clouds the cable or the IEM...
hahaha...

i'll measure mines whenever they arrive. hope they measure similar than other adapters.

I was talking about the resistance of the very expensive cables your friend has tried, apart from the ones on your list. I know this can be estimated, but it would be interesting to get measured values to confirm their composition/purity.

It's not that I stubbornly can't believe other parameters other than resistance can cause audible sound changes – I can, and would believe this, if I see scientifically and statistically valid evidence for it, in the form of volume-matched ABX tests. So I'm very much looking forward to your results, with an open mind A good scientist (or any rationalist) is always open to change their mind, when they are presented with concrete evidence or reasons contrary to their beliefs. As a belief is an assertion of truth, much more important than any individual belief is the belief-forming process you follow, and the scientific method has been historically the most reliable belief-forming process in guiding us to truth, so it is that process I follow over any other.

To calculate the composition/purity and make comparisons, you'd have to know exact length, and exact section of the wire (which is very difficult to measure with accuracy), and subtract the resistance added with the plugs and solders; you'd need a cable destructive test, and very accurate caliper to measure the tiny strands of each core, and subtract or remove the enameling if present. Besides, you'd need to measure impedance (resistance/frequency curve), not DC resistance, because different frequencies use shallower parts of the conductor, not the whole conductor, to travel. This would be the least to be scientific.. I'll let you know the result of the ABX, don't worry. But please read the book I mentioned to get another perspective of statistics.
About guiding to the truth, ahem, I transcended scientism/rationalism long time ago. To be guided to the truth of the important things in this world, I better rely on art, meditation, or any other discipline which works with meanings, not with matter/energy.

 

[rurika]

Have 171 and 175. 175 copper with blue skin + silver.
175 has more sparkling and detail than 171 but 171 has more full body sound.
But its very subtle though.

 

[hakuzen]

Have 171 and 175. 175 copper with blue skin + silver.
175 has more sparkling than 171 but 171 has more full sound body.
But its very subtle though.

yay! very nice ones, i'm going to order a silver+blue 175 as well. it looks great with blue iem

 

[yancem]

I've notced that all of the cables linked on this thread and I've looked at on AliExpress and Amazon are 1.2 meters in length. Is there a simple way of getting a shorter version of the same cables? I want to run my ciems through a bluetooth dongle, so my cable will stop catching on my office chair and would prefer a 18"-20" cable.

 

[Cevisi]

I've notced that all of the cables linked on this thread and I've looked at on AliExpress and Amazon are 1.2 meters in length. Is there a simple way of getting a shorter version of the same cables? I want to run my ciems through a bluetooth dongle, so my cable will stop catching on my office chair and would prefer a 18"-20" cable.

You can get custom cables at audio acousti store on ali express