[monsieurguzel]

I ordered it when they had originally stated end of summer...meaning that it was a 2 month wait.  Somehow this is turning closer to a 1 year wait.  And all I get for compensation is a lousy hoodie?!?!
 
 
Quote:

you guys have waited this long for it, why not wait a little more? You need to stop and think about it. I know for sure that once you've cancelled it, and the 3As arrive, you're seriously going to regret it.

 

 

[warp08]

Quote:

The DSP programming issue is why I mentioned what seemed to me to be an obvious factor that no one really has talked about during the wait: the apparent lack of a prototype unit.  If they actually had prototype units, they could have been marketing it this entire time at meets, etc... and it would have eased the minds of those waiting to hear more trial reviews, as well as generated additional sales.  The fact that didn't happen was not a good omen for their ability to make timelines.  
 
I'll be shocked if anyone gets their unit before April. 
 

 
So...
 
As I've been waiting longer than anyone here, I think it gives me the right to say this.
 
DSP programming issue--whatever that may be--sounds like last minute debugging to me.  The JH-3A has always been a quality-driven release, and not schedule-driven.  I don't know about you, but I prefer the prior.  This is a groundbreaking design, a first of its kind.  Jerry Harvey has little to loose by delaying the product release as much as he needs to in order to meet his quality standards, which are pretty high.  He simply cannot afford to put out crap and he knows it.  HIs reputation is at stake.
 
If the product launch is ultimately successful amid positive reviews, most of those who decided to cancel will reorder anyway at some point and if not, there will be plenty of new customers who pick up the slack.
 
Just my 2 cents.  if you're tired of waiting and need something now, get an RSA SR71B with a TWag V2'd JH13 and you'll be happy as a clam with roughly the same cost and form factor, plus a balanced input and output capability.  But I'm not giving up on Harvey yet.  If he needs more time to perfect the thing, it's fine by me.
 

 
 

 

[daveDerek]

Quote:

you guys have waited this long for it, why not wait a little more? You need to stop and think about it. I know for sure that once you've cancelled it, and the 3As arrive, you're seriously going to regret it.

GG x2. otoh once the units come in and folks are ecstatic (any other impressions will be surprising given that Jerry's products almost always seem to evoke that reaction in his customers), the blokes that jumped shipped and then want back in will be at the back of the line, which will undoubtedly frustrate them further.
 
look folks, your frustration is understandable. i'd likely not be pleased if they were holding my funds with continually shifting time lines. but is this really terribly surprising? many of the major, and less technically complicated, product releases have had significant delays, including the hd800 - and sennheiser has considerably greater resources than a boutique manufacturer like jha!
 
JHA, if you're following this thread, please consider making a mailing list for those on the pre-order list and periodically update them with one simple communique, even if it's a link to, or a copy of, your facebook updates. that'll help calm fraying nerves (your own too, no doubt, as it may decrease calls and emails from upset customers!)!
 
 

 

[monsieurguzel]

I think most people's issues is that they shouldn't have been so adament about paying full price upfront for a product they knew was so far from being done.  No pre-order should ever be done that way and they shouldn't have banked on our cash to pay for the development of this product.  That is what financing is for.  If Justin's one man operation can make it work for all of his portable amps and BHSE pre-order, then I'm sure Jerry could have been a lot better at handling this situation.  I'm fine with delays and waiting, but not when they have out money this whole time.
 
Quote:

 
So...
 
As I've been waiting longer than anyone here, I think it gives me the right to say this.
 
DSP programming issue--whatever that may be--sounds like last minute debugging to me.  The JH-3A has always been a quality-driven release, and not schedule-driven.  I don't know about you, but I prefer the prior.  This is a groundbreaking design, a first of its kind.  Jerry Harvey has little to loose by delaying the product release as much as he needs to in order to meet his quality standards, which are pretty high.  He simply cannot afford to put out crap and he knows it.  HIs reputation is at stake.
 
If the product launch is ultimately successful amid positive reviews, most of those who decided to cancel will reorder anyway at some point and if not, there will be plenty of new customers who pick up the slack.
 
Just my 2 cents.  if you're tired of waiting and need something now, get an RSA SR71B with a TWag V2'd JH13 and you'll be happy as a clam with roughly the same cost and form factor, plus a balanced input and output capability.  But I'm not giving up on Harvey yet.  If he needs more time to perfect the thing, it's fine by me.
 

 

 

[daveDerek]

i think warp is spot on here. jha thought the project would be on their original schedule, and it might have stayed close to it, had not there been an issue with a critical team member departing during development. i honestly don't think that they were being "so adamant about paying full price upfront for a product they knew was so far from being done". it's clearly not in jha's interest to have this drag on for a protracted period of time. they want it available asap, but not at the expense of the product being as well done as it can be at this time. we've heard stories of programming issues and parts issues from suppliers. all of that seems entirely within the realm of reasonable, though aggravating, problems to me. as to whether this was a scheme to finance the product, i hear your frustration, and who knows what kind of financing was available to them at that time. banks have been hoarding cash and tight as can be with loans since the financial crisis hit. and i really find it hard to believe that they knowingly put out a delivery date that was 6 months off the mark!

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

 
So...
 
As I've been waiting longer than anyone here, I think it gives me the right to say this.
 
DSP programming issue--whatever that may be--sounds like last minute debugging to me.  The JH-3A has always been a quality-driven release, and not schedule-driven.  I don't know about you, but I prefer the prior.  This is a groundbreaking design, a first of its kind.  Jerry Harvey has little to loose by delaying the product release as much as he needs to in order to meet his quality standards, which are pretty high.  He simply cannot afford to put out crap and he knows it.  HIs reputation is at stake.
 
If the product launch is ultimately successful amid positive reviews, most of those who decided to cancel will reorder anyway at some point and if not, there will be plenty of new customers who pick up the slack.
 
Just my 2 cents.  if you're tired of waiting and need something now, get an RSA SR71B with a TWag V2'd JH13 and you'll be happy as a clam with roughly the same cost and form factor, plus a balanced input and output capability.  But I'm not giving up on Harvey yet.  If he needs more time to perfect the thing, it's fine by me.
 

 
 

 
The issue is the application of logic to try to determine the actual stage of development of the product, based on available information.  You're rationalizing the delays, but the delay itself isn't really anything I would personally have a problem with, if I were a buyer.  The problem isn't whether one prefers a "quality release vs. a schedule driven one," but instead is a question of why there could be so many delays, despite the specific release dates that have been given by JH on multiple occasions. 
 
I've suggested that this was far more predictable than it appears to have been to many of you. 
 
I've also debated with you earlier in this very thread about your poor advice that a balanced RSA amp with TWAG cables will in any way be likely to be close in quality to the JH3A. 
 
You're clearly invested in defending the product maker from criticism, and I have no problem with that; it's very common on head-fi.  
 
 

 

[daveDerek]

roy, i don't think that you've heard the demo, if i'm not mistaken. those of us who heard it at canjam were uniformly impressed and considered it more of a large leap forward, rather than merely a step forward. for under $2k you're getting world class sound that may, in many respects, compete against far more expensive amp/transducer combos of whatever sort, be they either headphones or speakers. this is for roughly the same price as a first rate iem such as the jha products, + a cable and amp.  many of us find their already excellent performance steps up significantly when you replace the stock cable with one such as the twag and run it balanced off of an amp such as the protector or sr71b. these are options available today, and any number of users would recommend it. tomorrow the patient can surpass it with the jh3a. these are my observations as a jh13 owner who also has an aftermarket cable and balanced portable amp, and someone who heard the jh3a demo, though i'm not on the pre-order list. i do intend to go that route at some point though.

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

roy, i don't think that you've heard the demo, if i'm not mistaken. those of us who heard it at canjam were uniformly impressed and considered it more of a large leap forward, rather than merely a step forward. for under $2k you're getting world class sound that may, in many respects, compete against far more expensive amp/transducer combos of whatever sort, be they either headphones or speakers. this is for roughly the same price as a first rate iem such as the jha products, + a cable and amp.  many of us find their already excellent performance steps up significantly when you replace the stock cable with one such as the twag and run it balanced off of an amp such as the protector or sr71b. these are options available today, and any number of users would recommend it. tomorrow the patient can surpass it with the jh3a. these are my observations as a jh13 owner who also has an aftermarket cable and balanced portable amp, and someone who heard the jh3a demo, though i'm not on the pre-order list. i do intend to go that route at some point though.

 
I'm not exactly sure what you're attempting to communicate.  The debate that had transpired a few pages back was on the subject of cables, and whether the cost of those cables was comparable, in terms of the degree of improvement they provide, to the difference that same investment would make if applied to the JH3A.  I strongly believe that the JH3A is a better value proposition than more expensive cables.  
 
The average reader deserves to know that highly expensive aftermarket cables are a questionable value proposition. 
 

 

[daveDerek]

roy, i've heard stock jhas, recabled and balanced jhas, and the demo jh3a and communicated my findings. i'm not sure you've heard these set ups. i'll reiterate that i find the jh3a the best of the bunch and many will find it's performance so great as to consider it a great bargain in the world of high end audio. cables are clearly an area of controversy but again, my experience is that running a jh13, which as shipped is a superb product (by almost universal accord, which is something rare in high end audio), with an aftermarket cable and a balanced amp steps up the overall performance to a significant degree. many who have actually tried it think it's well worth the money spent. some folks may disagree but if they haven't actually heard it their opinions shouldn't carry the same weight, imo. as always, ymmv!

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

roy, i've heard stock jhas, recabled and balanced jhas, and the demo jh3a and communicated my findings. i'm not sure you've heard these set ups. i'll reiterate that i find the jh3a the best of the bunch and many will find it's performance so great as to consider it a great bargain in the world of high end audio. cables are clearly an area of controversy but again, my experience is that running a jh13, which as shipped is a superb product (by almost universal accord, which is something rare in high end audio), with an aftermarket cable and a balanced amp steps up the overall performance to a significant degree. many who have actually tried it think it's well worth the money spent. some folks may disagree but if they haven't actually heard it their opinions shouldn't carry the same weight, imo. as always, ymmv!

 

Just as you believe the opinions of those who haven't personally heard a high-end cable aren't worth as much as someone who has, I believe that anyone who claims to have heard an "improvement" with such a cable, but who hasn't subjected their belief to some form of objective test, shouldn't be taken too seriously.  In fact, I always attempt to take note of those who do subscribe to high end cables so that I can avoid taking their impressions seriously in the future.  That's just me, and YMMV. 
 
 

 

[dj nellie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I've also debated with you earlier in this very thread about your poor advice that a balanced RSA amp with TWAG cables will in any way be likely to be close in quality to the JH3A. 

There's no way to tell one way or the other how close current JH13/16 setups will be to the retail version of the JH3A.  I think warp was just saying that there's a very viable and satisfying option currently available for those who can't wait for the 3A to launch (and any possible post-release bugs to be fixed).

 

[wsilvio]

Be glad your not waiting for a BHSE from headamp!  Some people wait 2 years for those amps!

 

[nc8000]

 

Just as you believe the opinions of those who haven't personally heard a high-end cable aren't worth as much as someone who has, I believe that anyone who claims to have heard an "improvement" with such a cable, but who hasn't subjected their belief to some form of objective test, shouldn't be taken too seriously.  In fact, I always attempt to take note of those who do subscribe to high end cables so that I can avoid taking their impressions seriously in the future.  That's just me, and YMMV. 
 
 

And what would your definition of "some sort of objective test" be and how do you know that people who subscribe to cable effects haven't done "some sort of objective test" ?

And why would you take the impressions of people who don't subscribe to cables more seriously, you can't know that they have come to their oppinion after "some sort of objective test" ?

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

Quote:

 

Just as you believe the opinions of those who haven't personally heard a high-end cable aren't worth as much as someone who has, I believe that anyone who claims to have heard an "improvement" with such a cable, but who hasn't subjected their belief to some form of objective test, shouldn't be taken too seriously.  In fact, I always attempt to take note of those who do subscribe to high end cables so that I can avoid taking their impressions seriously in the future.  That's just me, and YMMV. 
 
 

And what would your definition of "some sort of objective test" be and how do you know that people who subscribe to cable effects haven't done "some sort of objective test" ?

 
I'm not trying to be evasive, but it's clear that this is one of those topics that is on a slippery slope to nowhere.  I'm merely attempting to explain my perceptions and rationale so that any outside observers that are currently trying to understand their options, in terms of upgrading their JH monitors, can do so with an awareness of both sides of the argument.  My advice to anyone reading is: if you're considering an expensive cable upgrade, consider putting that money towards the JH3A instead. 
 
In terms of your specific questions, there is extensive literature available for any curious parties to read.   The conclusions reached are very clear, but like with homeopathy, astrology, and other such branches of pseudoscience, there will always be a significant demographic that are resistant to the application of scientific methodology in testing hypotheses.  Again, I respect the rights of posters to draw their own conclusions. 
 
 
 

 
 

 

[monsieurguzel]

Yeah, but those only had a 1/4 downpayment.

 
Quote:

Be glad your not waiting for a BHSE from headamp!  Some people wait 2 years for those amps!