[ClieOS]

Quote:

Now - you guys please make this test :
1. Set your PCs volume control of the E10 close to the minimum ( so it wouldn't blast your eras off ) and set the knob volume of the E10 to the MAX.
2. Go to Advanced Settings on the SPDIF INTERFACE ( FIIO E10 ) that appears when you play music with the Fiio - by pressing the SPEARKER ICON near the clock ( for windows of course ).
3. With the music stopped of course set the sample/bit to 24bit/48Khz and press the TEST button - you should hear 2 test sounds on each channel - after that you should hear the BRRRR I am talking about.
4. I have noticed the BRRRRR sound to appear on ALL SETTINGS when you plug the E10's usb cable for the first time. Even on 24/96 ... once you press play/stop on a song the BRRR stops.
 
As I said, the ProAlphas have the LOUDEST volume on the E10, while the others are lower. In order to get the same BRRRRR on the other I had to get the GAIN settin on the E10 to HIGH and there it was - quite noticeable on all headphones. Repeat the test with how many headphones you have and post the results. This should be very interesting.
 
PS - the problems are only there when NOTHING is playing !! So apart from these issues the E10 is a very nice gadget with a VERY GOOD quality when you need it : when the music is playing ) I would still recommend it to anyone wanting to improve the sound on their PC and especially Laptops. For example my laptop's sound card behaves quite reversed : when nothing is playing the noise is lower but visibly increases when you start playing something )

 
I can see what you are talking there, but what is the point of setting the volume on E10 to max and using the PC's digital volume for control? A setting like that only serves to increase internal noise (similar to double amping) and reduce the overall resolution / bit depth.
 

 

[C0rnholio]

You are perfectly right. I was just playing around with the settings to see when the noise everybody is talking about it's the most obvious. The real-life using mode would probably NEVER bother anybody. However it's a bit of shame to see the buzz present on the DAC's line out where the volume of the E10 doesn't make a difference. But the most important thing is that everything is DEAD SILENT when it needs to be : when anything is playing and that pretty much covers it.
 
I went to a friend's place tonight that has a pretty expensive setup - around 20.000$ to test out my tiny E10's DAC. He has a Weiss DAC 2, Jeff Rowland Continuum Integrated Amplifier and I don't remember the Speakers model but it was some sick stuff - around 10K$ . Our goal was to see how the tiny E10 would perform against the Weiss on this setup - bare in mind the Weiss costs about 50 times more ( !!!! ) more. After about 3 hours of tests on all sort of music ... while the little E10 can't compete with the Weiss monster on anything really, the results were INCREDIBLE nevertheless. The E10 managed to throw a VERY DECENT fight. My ears are not very much used to hi-end audiophile products so when we were listening for a whole track on the Weiss and then moving to the E10 ... I didn't notice a huge difference, except maybe for the soundstage which was wider on the Weiss - but my friend said he feels some other slight differences which was to be expected of course. Some tracks showed more obvious differences, others not so much.
Mind you ... the Weiss was connected to the laptop via Firewire and the cables between the Weiss and Amp were some Audioquest XLR cables that cost about 2.000$ alone - and I was using the stock USB Cable for the E10 along with a regular Sony 3.5mm to RCA cable to connect it to the Amp ) So its more like putting a Prius against a Veyron on a straight line !! But I must admit we were VERY impressed with how the little gem performed.
There were some classic tracks with some silence parts and the E10 was DEAD SILENT regardless the volume setting on the JR Amp so BRAVO FIIO !! My friend said he heard some 700$ CD-Players on his setup that he felt less impressed about than the little E10.
 
Whoever says the difference from the laptop's internal sound card isn't big is either having some GREAT laptop sound card although I heard hi-end Sonys, Dells and Macs that sound like garbage or simply needs to get his hearing checked.
 
Can you guys tell me if the E10 changes it's sample/bit depth automatically depending on the track, or that is playing software dependent - in my case Foobar ? I noticed the Weiss changes it's setting depending on the FLAC thrown at it - you can hear a click when so and also you can see some leds on the front panel changing depending if the Flac is 24/44.1 or 24/96 for example. Can you guys elaborate more on this ?
 
Sorry about the long posts

 

[ClieOS]

I should also point out that the BRR clicking sound has less to do with the DAC but how Windows switches between signal. I can hear just about the same sound from BitHead and D-ZERO, more or less.

 

[oddsratio]

 
Quote:

I should also point out that the BRR clicking sound has less to do with the DAC but how Windows switches between signal. I can hear just about the same sound from BitHead and D-ZERO, more or less.
 

Can you post a little more info on this? I did that same thing as C0rnholio's post above, where I'm trying to see what they're capable of handling. I hear the BRRR on iems (I have CX200s and a151s) on the new unit still, but it's much worse when I have the output at 44khz than at 96khz. At that speed it's more of a hum and I hear it when only I go over 4 on the pot. With music playing, this noise disappears. At first, I thought it was a defect on the first unit, but here it is again
 
On my grados, I used to hear the BRRR at 44khz if I pressed the drivers down (like I would be wearing flats) and no longer hear this noise when I force upsample to 96khz. I'm on OSX.
 
Is this a common phenomenon on USB, no matter the DAC/Amp setup because of the USB power? I've tried different ports & computers, but I am going to assume all usb power is 'dirty.' If I buy a D4 or a D0, is this going to happen there, too? I used a separate amp in the line out and found the same thing happening when I turned up the volume there.
 
The turn-on pop seems really loud, though, and I'm afraid of that damaging my drivers.
 
I'm conflicted, it has really nice sound and everything I wanted except maybe portability. But the buzz with iems (I use them about 30% of the time) is disconcerting, unless it's actually universal to usb-powered dac/amps.
 
At its price point, there really is nothing comparable, but I might pay more for absolute silence on the pot, if a line like the ibasso or similar doesn't have similar background noise. If they do, then I'm happy to stick with this.
 
Quote:

The first thing I will do is to find a good USB cable with ferrite bead. In fact, an USB cable with two ferrite bead is even better (I am using such cable that comes with HifiMan HM801)

I also tried a cable I had with a ferrite bead and didn't notice a decrease in interference.
 

 

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Can you post a little more info on this?
 

Not really sure what I can add more onto it. As far as I can tell, the clicking sound is generated on the PC and pass through the DAC since regardless of what DAC I used, I can still hear it.
 

 

[obazavil]

Thanks for the comparison C0rnholio, really interesting reading.
 
I wanted to get a bifrost, but after spending on my cans, I'm out of money for a while.
 
 
I used my Ed8 with HP-P1 and with E10.
 
E10 does a really good job, really. Ed8 are really revealing, and the music sounds pretty good.
 
Bad I couldn't auction HP-P1 deeply, but anyway, for the price, I'm really pleased what I hear with both Ed8 and LCD2 (revealing cans)

 

[semiseco]

 
Quote:

Is this a common phenomenon on USB, no matter the DAC/Amp setup because of the USB power? I've tried different ports & computers, but I am going to assume all usb power is 'dirty.' If I buy a D4 or a D0, is this going to happen there, too? I used a separate amp in the line out and found the same thing happening when I turned up the volume there.
 
The turn-on pop seems really loud, though, and I'm afraid of that damaging my drivers.
 
I'm conflicted, it has really nice sound and everything I wanted except maybe portability. But the buzz with iems (I use them about 30% of the time) is disconcerting, unless it's actually universal to usb-powered dac/amps.
 
At its price point, there really is nothing comparable, but I might pay more for absolute silence on the pot, if a line like the ibasso or similar doesn't have similar background noise. If they do, then I'm happy to stick with this.

My uDac2 (usb powered) is totally silent from both the line out and headphone out (at least on any listenable volume levels), and the volume pot doesn't make a sound. It's just that at least the headphone out sounds somehow more clear on the E10 (when something's playing and the buzz is not there that is). Oh well, I'll try a replacement E10 if I could get rid of the buzz, then it would definately replace my uDac2
(should be able to sell it for the price of the E10 ).

 

[C0rnholio]

@oddsratio - the so called "problem" ONLY occurs when music ( or anything audio ) is NOT playing and it's visible ONLY when you have the computer's sound to almost minimum and the E10s amp to the max - so its like pushing it. On the other hand, the BRRR sound on the DAC line out really bothers when you first plug in the E10 on any setting. If you play something, even for 1 second the BRRRR stops completely - I am talking when keeping the E10 set to it's maximum 24/96 or 16/96 but I don't see any reason why not have it set to 24/96 all the time - I have a feeling windows or the playback software changes the sample rate when needed - hence the clicking sound - without any other degradation in noise/quality. So in real life - this should NOT BE anything to be concerned about. I can't think of a scenario in which that would bother you.
 
@ClieOS - we are not talking about the clicking noise between tracks... from what I have seen, that occurs even on the 5000$ DAC I was testing the E10 against the other night - so everything is cool.
 
Right now I am on the E10 paired with a pair of Audio Technica ATH M50. I took the cans to play with them for 2 days from a friend. I tested them at his place against my AKGs K181 I own and like but find them VERY uncomfortable. While performing the tests ... I felt the bass - especially on some drum beats ( ie: Michael Buble - Me and Mrs Jones ) to be a bit "broken" and loose on both headphones on a slightly higher volume. Even with the BASS OFF on the E10s panel. We hooked the phones to a Denon CD-Player - headphone out and the drums seemed a bit cleaner - so the amp on the E10 does seem a bit bloated on the low end - nothing to be worried about IMHO - but when having something else to compare it against .. you feel the differences.
 
Regarding the DAC - I put it up against this guy's rig also - although still an audiophile setup, a much cheaper/lower budget than the monsters I saw last night - don't know all the setup though. Anyway, thing is, the DAC again performed VERY GOOD. Same differences as last night, narrower soundstage, slight less instrument separation on classic music on the E10 but still - a VERY HONORABLE performance. Maybe the differences were a bit bigger on the more expensive setup - as expected - but the E10 sounded very nice nevertheless. The other guys are more used to listening to certain tracks and audiophile testing so they spotted the differences more obvious than I did. Of course having the 80$ E10 against some DACs that cost 10-30-50 times more, that weight a lot more, that use cables that cost as much as a kidney and powered from the main source,  is not fair to say the least. I like to consider myself a music enthusiast and I know a thing or two about sound quality and how stuff should sound but by no means I am a hardcore audiophile being obsessed with insane details regarding music ( like the my 2 friends are ) - and I couldn't spot too much difference except for the slight bass bloating on the amp part. This product is not for people that spend 20.000$ on music setups It's for the other 99.99% of us that know to enjoy a nice clean and clear sound.
 
So all in all - the E10 is absolutely incredible for the price DAC wise. The amp is not BAD either but I could spot some differences between the amps rather than the dacs - but again, I'm don't have my ears trained to hear all the subtilities others hear. E10's main target is to improve the sound output on a laptop/home pc and ALSO power up headphones - and not only it does that SUPERBLY but it can also act like a DAC for some higher end amp/speaker systems. If you don't have a VERY GOOD sound card on your PC or you want to listen to music on your laptop, this product is a STEAL.
 
PS. all tests were done with AWESOMELY recorded FLACs. For an mp3 guy such as myself ( I get only get the REALLY good stuff in FLAC ) - the E10 is more than you could ever need.

 

[ACDOAN]

Would somebody tell me where I can order this little sweet babe in the US ? I do not like the look of the E11. Thank you.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

@ClieOS - we are not talking about the clicking noise between tracks... from what I have seen, that occurs even on the 5000$ DAC I was testing the E10 against the other night - so everything is cool.

Of course not, I just thought I should point it out for those who have no idea what we are discussing..

 

[oddsratio]

@C0rnholio: Are you getting the background buzz (BRRR) at 100% on the fiio dial, because I start to hear it at 50 w/iems. There are some channel balance issues (as expected with a pot, but not too noticeable) that go away once you get to 1 on the dial, so I try to keep it above that. Also, I do hear it when nothing is playing and the pot's up that far, but it's not dependent on my system volume.

 

[tim3320070]

Quote:

It should help, but how much it will help really depends on how 'noisy' your PC is. The good news is ferrite bead is dirt cheap so the investment is minimum.

It did nothing. It's my computer. The noise is fairly minor and about 80% less than the stock sound. The sound quality otherwise is greatly improved. A great little unit, especially at the price.
 

 

[oddsratio]

On the positive side of things, does anyone listen to this with the dac output only? I think I actually find it more pleasing than the headphone out.

 

[obazavil]

Quote:

On the positive side of things, does anyone listen to this with the dac output only? I think I actually find it more pleasing than the headphone out.

I listen it with lineout only.
 
E10 -> Lyr -> LCD2
 
Sounds pretty good.

 

[LimeANite]

Bad news - the headphone out is getting looser.  It's now at the point where if I bump the input cable too much, sound cuts out on the left channel.  This is probably at least partially the fault of the massive 1/4" to 1/8" adapter that Sennheiser uses on the HD555.  It puts a lot of stress on the jack.  But I also notice it with a simple extension cable, so the Sennheiser adapter isn't the only cause.  I may have to send it in if it gets any worse.