[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif HeadphoneAddict, Your best bet to make your D2000 sound more like the MD5000 would be to go with the mahogany cups that we damp for free. You'll get the same full-range rich, liquid tone, but because our cups are a bit larger than stock, you get a slightly more expansive soundstage over the stock cups. Cheers.

WOW! Now this is what I'm talking about. The sound is just what I was looking for. The upper mids filled in and details are much better. It makes me glad that I canceled my order for the $305 eCost D5000 on Monday and bought your D2000 Woodies with the money instead! You saved me $100 (after shipping). And, yes the wood cups are darker in real life than in photos - weird. I think I did an adequate job stuffing the pads, which you can see in the photos is all plumped up. Funny but this makes the headphones a little hotter on the ears now, as opposed to very loose and cooler. I also had the right ear-piece completely fall off the pivot as I was doing this, with the "infamous loose pivot screw" - so it was the best time for it to happen while I was doing surgery and NO parts got lost (cap, nut, washer, spring, etc).

Question #1: I did find that APS put some strips of fiberloft type material in my D2000 cups, and I might actually add a very tiny bit of that to the Mahogany cups in addition to the dynamat - just to get rid of that very last bit of lower midrange boost in female voices that didn't completely go away. Do you think that will help that frequency range, or should I stuff the pads more to get more distance between ear and driver?

Here is my dilemma that makes me hesitant to try adding fiberloft to the cups - the stock screws are only long enough to catch about three rows of threads into the wood. I pushed in as hard as I could with the screw driver to get the screw to bite into the wood, but I still partially stripped 2 of the 4 screw holes on the left, and 1 of the 4 on the right side . The right side install went better than left because I pre-drilled the holes a little deeper. The cups are still tight, because I stopped screwing as soon as I realized the screw was not going deeper or getting tighter. However, I cannot get the cups tight enough to sit completely flush with the rest of the phone (see the gap in one of the photos).

So, 5 of the 8 screws are in very tight, the other 3 not so much. I went to Home Depot and Ace hardware stores and after looking at 20,000 screws I came home with some #2 machine screws that are 3/4" instead of 1/2". However, the thread pitch is much tighter and the screw head is slightly larger than the screw holes in the driver mounting plate, and needs to be ground down by about 0.1 mm to pass through the hole so I can screw it into the wood. And, I don't know if that extra 1/4" in length will make the screws come out of the other side of the cup! Eyeballing it says I am safe, but I'd also have to drill the pilot holes deeper and not go all the way through to the other side. So, I have not tried this yet.

So, my next 2 questions are - If I take the cups off so I can add a tiny wisp of fiberloft inside the cup and repair the screw holes, should I use the longer screws or just fill in each of the screw holes with one drop of gorilla glue or insert a splinter of wood, so I can get a tight cup when I reinstall them? I could also re-drill (with a 1/16 bit) the 4 holes about 1/4" away from the old holes, but then the wood grain on the outside of the cups would not be centered over the cable like it is now. I would make a template of the 4 old holes first, so the new ones would be spaced perfectly. What would you recommend?

Let me know! Here are is Headphone ProN now:

APS V2 D2000 with Lawton Audio Woodies:

Boo Boo Kitty likes Headphones:

Boo Boo Kitty Wears Headphones:

D2000 stuffed earpad vs stock earpad - bottom veiw:

D2000 stuffed earpad vs stock earpad - side veiw:

 

[markl]

Hi Larry,
I figured our mahogany cups would be just what the doctor ordered. It's nice to be able to tune the phones even further by choosing the right wood.

I'm away from home borrowing a computer, limited time, let me try to answer your questions.


APS did not put that strip of material in the cups-- Denon did. I always remove it when mod-ing the D2000, and I don't recommend putting fiberloft in the cups of any phone any more, it's just not 100% beneficial.

The upper lip on our cups which determines how far they go in is made to be the exact same size as that of the stock D2000. If you look at a stock D2000, you'll see they aren't 100% flush either.

We purposely made the screw hole narrower and a bit shallower on the soft mahogany wood so that folks could use a bit of extra torque to tighten the screws and achieve a more firm grip than stock. It sounds like you were not able to turn the screws beyond what we had drilled, is that correct? Of the cups I've done so far, I haven't run into this issue, but will keep an eye on it going forward.

WRT to the new screws, I would file down some of the length if you can, I'd start to get nervous with a whole quarter inch more screw there. I'd file them so they are half-way between 3/4" and 1/2". Then re-drill a bit deeper with whatever bit you had success with on the other side. I'd put a drop of glue in there for extra measure.

All that said, it's hard to be sure without having them in hand, but based on what you've written, that would be my plan.

Worst case scenario, we can discuss a replacement cup, but we'll get you up and running. Cheers.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif We purposely made the screw hole narrower and a bit shallower on the soft mahogany wood so that folks could use a bit of extra torque to tighten the screws and achieve a more firm grip than stock. It sounds like you were not able to turn the screws beyond what we had drilled, is that correct? Of the cups I've done so far, I haven't run into this issue, but will keep an eye on it going forward.

Yes, the narrower hole was a good idea, but the shallow depth prevented me from getting that last turn or two beyond what you had drilled. I could squeeze the cups against the frame and get them to move closer to the frame to narrow the gap more than what it is now - so I had I squeezed together really hard and put my weight into the screwdriver, but then felt the screw slipping in the wood as I turned it so I stopped right away.

On the other cup, not only did I drill the holes about 2mm deeper, but I also installed the screws into the holes with the cups off the headphone, to start the threads on the holes (but still messed up one of the four doing the actual install).

I am just going to leave the cups alone for now, and enjoy. I would stuff the earpads a tiny bit more, but it seems like they are full unless I make a taller plastic cup ring (right now about 1/4" tall at the front and tapered to about 5/8" at the rear). I am guessing that your earpads on the MD5000 DE were maybe about 2mm deeper than mine are now.

 

[riot507]

Does the order of burn in matter? I bought my stock D5000 used so I'm sure theres been a bunch of hours on them. If I mod them now, will I need to reburn them in again or will the mod not work if I didn't due it to brand new D5000s? Sorry, still a noob =(.

 

[ironmine]

Quote:

Originally Posted by riot507 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does the order of burn in matter?

No, it doesn't. If we start burning in cups and pads, we'll rightfully belong to a lunatic asylum.

 

[markl]

Quote:

Does the order of burn in matter? I bought my stock D5000 used so I'm sure theres been a bunch of hours on them. If I mod them now, will I need to reburn them in again or will the mod not work if I didn't due it to brand new D5000s? Sorry, still a noob =(.

riot507, there is a small burn-in time for the phones after you have added dynamat in all the places outlined here. Expect a 24-36 hour burn-in period post dynamat.

 

[Bleemv1]

do you reckon these mods would be beneficial to all closed style headphones? for example, Sennheiser HD215? I'm thinking about modding mine

 

[omendelovitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleemv1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif do you reckon these mods would be beneficial to all closed style headphones? for example, Sennheiser HD215? I'm thinking about modding mine

I'd be careful with modding headphones unless you know what you're doing and what mods deliver what performance changes. I learned the hard way when I started modding headphones (Grados) that one can easily overdamp them, short drivers, etc. Modding is not for the faint of heart and or the short on headphone replacement money

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif riot507, there is a small burn-in time for the phones after you have added dynamat in all the places outlined here. Expect a 24-36 hour burn-in period post dynamat.

Perhaps... you mean... the sound improves much more rapidly with shorter burn in times if the Denons are modded?

But, the burn in time will not really change - they will still need 400+ hrs to sound their best. Its just that you may not notice such dramatic improvements with longer burn in times, if you've completed the dynamat mods, which shortens the time for realizing their improved sound. Though... you may only achieve the larger soundstage with the pad mods - that's not improved so much with burn in - if you prefer a more distant soundstage. I don't.

And... I'm still one who believes (because I've experienced it)... that 90%+ of the improvement in their sound is achieved with the right set up (e.g. SA8001 CDP and X-CANv8, etc.), and 400+ hrs of burn in. But... if you want to "get there faster" - try the mods.

 

[Vandal]

Would this work well with the D2000 as well? Sound wise what are the main differences between both models IYO?

 

[Currawong]

Just thought I'd add here that after getting a set of mulga cups, I felt the sound was better with some fibreloft in the cups, as the lower-mids for me too were too strong. Now they are just about spot-on. The treble is still a little sibilant, but I've yet to determine if that's an effect of my amp or not.

 

[markl]

Quote:

Perhaps... you mean... the sound improves much more rapidly with shorter burn in times if the Denons are modded? But, the burn in time will not really change - they will still need 400+ hrs to sound their best. Its just that you may not notice such dramatic improvements with longer burn in times, if you've completed the dynamat mods, which shortens the time for realizing their improved sound. Though... you may only achieve the larger soundstage with the pad mods - that's not improved so much with burn in - if you prefer a more distant soundstage. I don't. And... I'm still one who believes (because I've experienced it)... that 90%+ of the improvement in their sound is achieved with the right set up (e.g. SA8001 CDP and X-CANv8, etc.), and 400+ hrs of burn in. But... if you want to "get there faster" - try the mods.

Do you ever read or think before you respond? The question had to do with, does the addition of the mods add to burn-in time, or do you have to start all over again from hour zero with burn-in after you modify? The answer is, if you have already burned in the phones (250-300 hours normal burn-in time), and then you do the mods to them, you need to allow another 24-48 hours of *additional* burn-in for the phones to adjust to the mods. You aren't starting all over from scratch.

Quote:

Would this work well with the D2000 as well? Sound wise what are the main differences between both models IYO?

Yes, works with D2000 as well. However, the wood in the D5000 makes a substantial difference in the sound, not to mention the high-performing stock cable of D5000 which makes that phone superior in sound with or without mods.

Quote:

do you reckon these mods would be beneficial to all closed style headphones? for example, Sennheiser HD215? I'm thinking about modding mine

You would need to develop a unique strategy for each phone you'd want to try. I spent a fair amount of time with the Audio Technica ATH-W5000 figuring out a good strategy for that phone, went through 3 of them. At one time, I had intended to productize the result and offer a mod. Eventually, however, while I could certainly improve on the original, the end result, to me, was still not as good-sounding as the Denons. I could see no real reason why someone would prefer a ATH-W5000 mod-ed or otherwise over a modified Denon, especially when you had to spend so much for the stock W5000 to begin with.

Possibly when Audio Technica comes out witha base model that's better than the W5000 I will take it up again, as I learned a lot about what can and won't improve the basic AT design.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do you ever read or think before you respond? The question had to do with, does the addition of the mods add to burn-in time, or do you have to start all over again from hour zero with burn-in after you modify? The answer is, if you have already burned in the phones (250-300 hours normal burn-in time), and then you do the mods to them, you need to allow another 24-48 hours of *additional* burn-in for the phones to adjust to the mods. You aren't starting all over from scratch.

Well... then... I suggest you make your statements much more clear... as I do! You should simply say... "the D5000s (or whatever) need little additional burn-in, after completing the mods... if, you've previously, completed their initial burn in of 400+ hours." Such a statement is a clear and direct response to the question - your response was not... no matter what you intended.

Moreover, to be blunt... and to reiterate my prior statements in this and related threads... the D5000s need no... I repeat... need no... zip, zero, nada... mods - whether "Markl Mods," or otherwise! Period!

Anyone, who claims they do... is not being honest with the members!!!

The sound of the D5000s can be cleared up with nothing more than a good source and amp that complements their low impedance and 400+ hrs of burn-in. With the equipment I mentioned, and sufficient burn-in, the D5000s bass is tight, and resolved, their mids are full and rich, and their highs are smooth, clear and extended.

Unless one has an extreme case of OCD, they will find that paying a premium for mods (the original "Markl mods" with Dynamat and Fiberloft) will simply not result in an appreciable improvement in the sound of the D5000s - perhaps 5%, if that much (after you find the right set up and complete their burn in - it may be greater prior to that). If anyone is going to "go for it"... that extra 5% (my prior implication that it could be as much as 10% was gratuitous)... they'd be wise to complete the "original mods" themselves, because they will not be persuaded that the "original mods" alone will "do the trick."

I learned this from personal experience with the D5000s and multiple set ups. I didn't complete the "original mods," until after I found the right set up, and completed the burn-in. The "original mods" resulted in <5% improvement - not enough to warrant the cost. Though... adding some padding to the ear pads will give them a a bit larger soundstage (as it would with most any phones), if one prefers that - which the burn-in may not achieve. And custom cables and cups, will no doubt further alter their sound - perhaps, a wee bit more than 5% (I'm really only referring to the "original mods") - but... at a significant price... relative to the relatively small improvement in their sound.

Now... you can attempt to "persuade" others differently - but, you would simply be misleading them. Although... to be fair... you've since "tempered" your recommendations of your "original mods."

Perhaps - that is what others are tying to say. Though... I would (and no one should) ever question your sincerity, or integrity, or the quality of your work. I believe you are sincere, and honest in your positions - and offer what you genuinely believe are significant improvements in the Denon phones.

I still defend you're right to offer your mods, and to support your hobby - but, no one should be so "deceived" as too think... or should I say "feel"... the "original mods" make an appreciable improvement - quite simply... they don't!

Oh, yes... that's not my "opinion"... its a simple "fact!"

 

[markl]

Gradofan2, get a life. Open your window, get some fresh air. Open your door and soak up the fresh sunshine. Go see some people. You'll feel better.

You're just trolling, it's old, it's boring, you type out the same comments over and over again, despite being shown time and again that your assumptions are incorrect, and your *opinions* are not fact, and contradicted by now hundreds of people who have tried the mods. You are one data point, great, we get it, the mods only improved your phones a bit. Others disagree.

I know I'm feeding your trolling by replying, so hopefully this can be the last time I have to bother.

I said "good day", sir!

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gradofan2, get a life. Open your window, get some fresh air. Open your door and soak up the fresh sunshine. Go see some people. You'll feel better. You're just trolling, it's old, it's boring, you type out the same comments over and over again, despite being shown time and again that your assumptions are incorrect, and your *opinions* are not fact, and contradicted by now hundreds of people who have tried the mods. You are one data point, great, we get it, the mods only improved your phones a bit. Others disagree. I know I'm feeding your trolling by replying, so hopefully this can be the last time I have to bother. I said "good day", sir!

"Thou doth protest too much, me thinks!"

And just as many disagree with you, sir - they find the D5000s need no mods at all.

No doubt you offer "sage advice" for many here - perhaps, you would do well to adhere to your own advice!

And... good day to you, sir!