[tool462]

Quote:

 
This is a good idea, but it has no effect on a security guard who has his circular logic field set to over 9000. Being in a position of power often makes reasonable people act like total jerks.
 
What still baffles me is why did the OP let all this to happen to him, and not put his foot down?

Being a Federal Correctional Officer I get accused of feeling "powerful" all the time.  Among all of the officers I have worked with (several hundred) only 2 or maybe 3 are loving their "position of power" (we call it positional authority) and the other 99% just do as they are told to follow policy and keep their job.  I see hundreds of grown men completely naked every week and watch them do very degrading things, I assure you myself and very few others actually enjoy enacting the "visual" searches and extreme number of patsearches and the like that we are required to do
 
 
Think of yourself in the OP's position, you are in a foreign country and a language barrier is present.  Not only do you have no ability to convey sincerity and honesty through language (much of which comes through inflection and facial expressions which are NOT culturally homogenous) you have no knowledge of the laws and legal process in the country you are in.  You aren't guilty of anything, so why not comply and allow the facts to speak for your freedom.
 
 
@OP: I like your attitude regarding the situation!  Keep it up and you have a great and funny entertaining story that can be told many times in your future
 

 

[PanamaRed]

 
Quote:

The Walmart stores are really not able to check your reciept at the door. You have paid for your products and the reciept is your property. The bags in the cart are also your property because you paid for them and own them. The man or lady at the door has no right to go threw your stuff. People let them so they do.

The items which you have paid for are yours once your transaction is complete (except for licensed goods - ex: movies, music, software). However, it is well within the rights of Walmart to detain you for questioning for a short period and conduct a reasonable search if employees feel that a theft has occurred. A customer acting suspicious (such as not letting an employee verify the contents of their bag) could raise enough suspicion to warrant a search. 
 
 
 
 

 

[Redcarmoose]

Quote:

 

The items which you have paid for are yours once your transaction is complete (except for licensed goods - ex: movies, music, software). However, it is well within the rights of Walmart to detain you for questioning for a short period and conduct a reasonable search if employees feel that a theft has occurred. A customer acting suspicious (such as not letting an employee verify the contents of their bag) could raise enough suspicion to warrant a search. 
 
 
 
 

Did you read what I wrote or not. That is exactly correct, if they feel a theft has taken place. They check every person leaving the store. Do you know anything about civil rights? This occurs even if no theft or suspicious acts have taken place. The suspicious acts are in fact that they have overcharged me almost 50% of the time I entered the store. Not a lot of money but $3.00 usd here $4.00 usd there. The most I ever was over charged was $5.00 usd. That is not the point. But thats fine if you miss the point of my entire post. 
 
Next time you repost a quote of mine please repost the complete post so the idea does not get lost in the PanamaRed Rope your smoking. LOL
 

 

[Redcarmoose]

@OP: I like your attitude regarding the situation! Keep it up and you have a great and funny entertaining story that can be told many times in your future
 
 
@tool462
 
You need to read the OPs post again. He does have a great attitude but he is now left with a bad experience which he doesn't think is funny at all. I really don't think he finds the story entertaining for people.
 
You must think it's funny to have your cloths removed by complete strangers against your will. Yes... That is really funny ha,ha We are lucky that in America things like this don't happen with minimum wage security officers at the helm of store security. In America he could get Larry Parker involved and sue the sht out of the people involved as well as the store!
 
Yes there has been many oversights by the OP and that is the reason he posted this thread as a learning experience that will help others in the future to take more care in going into a store with a backpack, in another country where you are not sure of the laws.

 

[tool462]

Quote:

@OP: I like your attitude regarding the situation! Keep it up and you have a great and funny entertaining story that can be told many times in your future
 
 
@tool462
 
You need to read the OPs post again. He does have a great attitude but he is now left with a bad experience which he doesn't think is funny at all. I really don't think he finds the story entertaining for people.
 
You must think it's funny to have your cloths removed by complete strangers against your will. Yes... That is really funny ha,ha We are lucky that in America things like this don't happen with minimum wage security officers at the helm of store security. In America he could get Larry Parker involved and sue the sht out of the people involved as well as the store!
 
Yes there has been many oversights by the OP and that is the reason he posted this thread as a learning experience that will help others in the future to take more care in going into a store with a backpack, in another country where you are not sure of the laws.

Your sarcasm is noted.
 
Humility is dulled with time, and if the OP is already posting publically on the internet about his experiences, humility has dulled enough for him that I am certain the story will hold some humorous merit in the not so distant future.  I meant to imply that his attitude suggests it will be a story that he will share with value toward entertainment and anecdote rather than as a true warning for those potential shoppers of German electronics stores
 

 

[feNcheL]

Quote:

Being a Federal Correctional Officer I get accused of feeling "powerful" all the time.  Among all of the officers I have worked with (several hundred) only 2 or maybe 3 are loving their "position of power" (we call it positional authority) and the other 99% just do as they are told to follow policy and keep their job.  I see hundreds of grown men completely naked every week and watch them do very degrading things, I assure you myself and very few others actually enjoy enacting the "visual" searches and extreme number of patsearches and the like that we are required to do
 
 
Think of yourself in the OP's position, you are in a foreign country and a language barrier is present.  Not only do you have no ability to convey sincerity and honesty through language (much of which comes through inflection and facial expressions which are NOT culturally homogenous) you have no knowledge of the laws and legal process in the country you are in.  You aren't guilty of anything, so why not comply and allow the facts to speak for your freedom.
 
 
@OP: I like your attitude regarding the situation!  Keep it up and you have a great and funny entertaining story that can be told many times in your future
 

Not trying to discredit your job attitude and that of others you personally know, but have you heard of the Stanford prison experiment? Power corrupts. At the very least (what I have noticed), people in positions of power tend to be impatient towards the disempowered.
Sorry for slightly off-topic
 

 

[tool462]

Quote:

Not trying to discredit your job attitude and that of others you personally know, but have you heard of the Stanford prison experiment? Power corrupts. At the very least (what I have noticed), people in positions of power tend to be impatient towards the disempowered.
Sorry for slightly off-topic
 

Yep   Have a B.S. in Psychology and am pursuing a Masters in Behavioral Science so, needless to say, I am familiar with Zimbardo's work.  The reason "real" prison is different for the mindset of an employee, is that a good officer is scared 100% of the time.  There is a reason the life expectancy of a career CO is 59 years.  The inmates are the ones in control, whoever says otherwise is wrong or has never been in prison.  I never expect to have power over some of the units where I'm the only one against 260+ inmates when all I get is a radio, a couple sets of cuffs and some keys.  It is feigned authority masking underlying fear.
 
I apologize for the offtopic fragment of my initial post, just gets me going when people forget that everyone wants to do their job, and some people have jobs that make them do things to other people that the receiving party doesn't enjoy.  If every security guard believed everything they were told, they wouldn't stop a single thief in action.

 

[PanamaRed]

Quote:

Did you read what I wrote or not. That is exactly correct, if they feel a theft has taken place. They check every person leaving the store. Do you know anything about civil rights? This occurs even if no theft or suspicious acts have taken place. The suspicious acts are in fact that they have overcharged me almost 50% of the time I entered the store. Not a lot of money but $3.00 usd here $4.00 usd there. The most I ever was over charged was $5.00 usd. That is not the point. But thats fine if you miss the point of my entire post. 
 
Next time you repost a quote of mine please repost the complete post so the idea does not get lost in the PanamaRed Rope your smoking. LOL
 

 
I know a little bit about civil rights. Do you?
 
Please explain how your civil rights have been violated.
 

 

[feNcheL]

Quote:

Yep   Have a B.S. in Psychology and am pursuing a Masters in Behavioral Science so, needless to say, I am familiar with Zimbardo's work.  The reason "real" prison is different for the mindset of an employee, is that a good officer is scared 100% of the time.  There is a reason the life expectancy of a career CO is 59 years.  The inmates are the ones in control, whoever says otherwise is wrong or has never been in prison.  I never expect to have power over some of the units where I'm the only one against 260+ inmates when all I get is a radio, a couple sets of cuffs and some keys.  It is feigned authority masking underlying fear.
 
I apologize for the offtopic fragment of my initial post, just gets me going when people forget that everyone wants to do their job, and some people have jobs that make them do things to other people that the receiving party doesn't enjoy.  If every security guard believed everything they were told, they wouldn't stop a single thief in action.

That's pretty interesting. Does every CO need a degree or at least training in Psychology?
 

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Any theory that you'll avoid any trouble that centres on security staff recognising the exact brand of headphone you are wearing and mentally comparing it to all the headphones sold in the store is a bad theory.
It is depressing that half the people on this thread seem to turn to lawsuits as the solution or consequence. The staff did their jobs - Germany is not quite so litigious as the US.

Yeah, I agree, totally reasonable for them to search you after your behavior in the store. I'm not saying that the OP was necessarily out of line, just using poor judgement and acting in a very suspicious manner. This problem was exacerbated by the language barrier, so he ended up getting treated rather bluntly. I'm glad that everything turned out fine for the OP, he has a nice story now
 

 

[ssrock64]

Quote:

Being a Federal Correctional Officer I get accused of feeling "powerful" all the time.  Among all of the officers I have worked with (several hundred) only 2 or maybe 3 are loving their "position of power" (we call it positional authority) and the other 99% just do as they are told to follow policy and keep their job.  I see hundreds of grown men completely naked every week and watch them do very degrading things, I assure you myself and very few others actually enjoy enacting the "visual" searches and extreme number of patsearches and the like that we are required to do
 
 
Think of yourself in the OP's position, you are in a foreign country and a language barrier is present.  Not only do you have no ability to convey sincerity and honesty through language (much of which comes through inflection and facial expressions which are NOT culturally homogenous) you have no knowledge of the laws and legal process in the country you are in.  You aren't guilty of anything, so why not comply and allow the facts to speak for your freedom.
 
 
@OP: I like your attitude regarding the situation!  Keep it up and you have a great and funny entertaining story that can be told many times in your future
 

Both you and the passive-agressive response to you are pretty correct. At the time I was shocked and the only option I could see was to comply. It is a bit cringeworthy at the moment, but I'm sure it will become funny now that I'm back onshore in America.

 

[DigitalFreak]

I had a experience similar to the OP 15 years ago. I was shopping at Sears one Saturday and had my backpack with me. I bought some items and instead of letting the cashier bag my purchases I told her not to bother I could just throw all my purchases into my backpack. I did a little more shopping and then decided to go home. I was about to walk out the store when this one guy comes out of nowhere and stands right in front of me barring the exit. He promptly asks me what I have in my backpack (very rudely I may add) and then demands I hand over my backpack. When I asked who he was and what business it was of his what was in my backpack he even more rudely answered that I either hand over the backpack and cooperate or he would just take it away from me. That's when another guy came up behind me and said you're already in enough trouble buddy either shut up and give him the bag or we're taking it. Don't get stupid on us or you'll regret it. As the second guy was saying that the first guy had the nerve to then put his hand on the strap of my backpack and began to try and violently pull it away from me.
 
I'm not a rude or violent person but the level of rudeness ( I can't stand rude people) and the shock of being accused of stealing got me all fired up. I pulled my strap back and shouted as loud as I could HELP I'M BEING MUGGED CALL THE POLICE HELPPPPPP! Now that was the last thing these guys expected me to do and it was obvious they were shocked and had no idea what to do. I shouted what I did because I wanted the police there as fast as possible before the situation really got out of hand. Some people nearby heard the camotion and lucky for me promptly called the 911 emergency thinking I was being jumped. About 5 minutes later a cruiser was at the door of the Sears store to sort out what was going on. Lucky thing because if they hadn't gotten there promptly the situation could have really degenerated. Long story short the police searched my bag saw my purchases and when they asked if I had proof of purchase I promptly presented them the bill of sale. When they asked why I hadn't complied with the security demands and showed them the contents of the backpack and my bill of sale I replied they hadn't asked to see my backpack they demanded and they also hadn't identified themselves as security therefore I didn't have to show them anything.. I then indicated that they nearly physically assaulted me to take my bag away. In Canada if security wants to detain you in a store or ask you questions about anything they must identify themselves first. The cops then got a statement from the people who called in the 911 and their statement matched up with my statement concerning the security personnel not identifying themselves. The story got back to the store manager and after threats from me of filing assault charges against the store (the security guy can't lay a hand on my person without first identifying who he is) both security guys were immediately fired on the spot.

 

[soundstige]

Excellent story, and this is precisely what should be done in all US and Canadian businesses if security tries to deprive you of your rights. In the US, the laws are even more strict (possibly) regarding personal security, and even if they identified themselves, unless they are employed by local law enforcement and not the store or an independent firm, you have no requirement to comply with anything they say or do. If they block you from leaving, that is false imprisonment and a jailable offense on their part. All stores I've worked in and all stores that don't want to be sued into oblivion strictly forbid anyone from the AP team from touching or blocking anyone, including any articles physically attached to them, and to simply call the police, no matter if the suspect leave with supposedly stolen goods or not. That's what security cameras are for; it's not difficult to track actual thieves down.
 
Quote:

I had a experience similar to the OP 15 years ago. I was shopping at Sears one Saturday and had my backpack with me. I bought some items and instead of letting the cashier bag my purchases I told her not to bother I could just throw all my purchases into my backpack. I did a little more shopping and then decided to go home. I was about to walk out the store when this one guy comes out of nowhere and stands right in front of me barring the exit. He promptly asks me what I have in my backpack (very rudely I may add) and then demands I hand over my backpack. When I asked who he was and what business it was of his what was in my backpack he even more rudely answered that I either hand over the backpack and cooperate or he would just take it away from me. That's when another guy came up behind me and said you're already in enough trouble buddy either shut up and give him the bag or we're taking it. Don't get stupid on us or you'll regret it. As the second guy was saying that the first guy had the nerve to then put his hand on the strap of my backpack and began to try and violently pull it away from me.
 
I'm not a rude or violent person but the level of rudeness ( I can't stand rude people) and the shock of being accused of stealing got me all fired up. I pulled my strap back and shouted as loud as I could HELP I'M BEING MUGGED CALL THE POLICE HELPPPPPP! Now that was the last thing these guys expected me to do and it was obvious they were shocked and had no idea what to do. I shouted what I did because I wanted the police there as fast as possible before the situation really got out of hand. Some people nearby heard the camotion and lucky for me promptly called the 911 emergency thinking I was being jumped. About 5 minutes later a cruiser was at the door of the Sears store to sort out what was going on. Lucky thing because if they hadn't gotten there promptly the situation could have really degenerated. Long story short the police searched my bag saw my purchases and when they asked if I had proof of purchase I promptly presented them the bill of sale. When they asked why I hadn't complied with the security demands and showed them the contents of the backpack and my bill of sale I replied they hadn't asked to see my backpack they demanded and they also hadn't identified themselves as security therefore I didn't have to show them anything.. I then indicated that they nearly physically assaulted me to take my bag away. In Canada if security wants to detain you in a store or ask you questions about anything they must identify themselves first. The cops then got a statement from the people who called in the 911 and their statement matched up with my statement concerning the security personnel not identifying themselves. The story got back to the store manager and after threats from me of filing assault charges against the store (the security guy can't lay a hand on my person without first identifying who he is) both security guys were immediately fired on the spot.

 

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Excellent story, and this is precisely what should be done in all US and Canadian businesses if security tries to deprive you of your rights. In the US, the laws are even more strict (possibly) regarding personal security, and even if they identified themselves, unless they are employed by local law enforcement and not the store or an independent firm, you have no requirement to comply with anything they say or do. If they block you from leaving, that is false imprisonment and a jailable offense on their part. All stores I've worked in and all stores that don't want to be sued into oblivion strictly forbid anyone from the AP team from touching or blocking anyone, including any articles physically attached to them, and to simply call the police, no matter if the suspect leave with supposedly stolen goods or not. That's what security cameras are for; it's not difficult to track actual thieves down.
 

So the point of actual security guards is to present a facade of force to discourage casual shoplifters? God forbid they actually be allowed to provide security... 

 

 

[DigitalFreak]

Quote:

So the point of actual security guards is to present a facade of force to discourage casual shoplifters? God forbid they actually be allowed to provide security... 

 

You're missing the point of my original post. The point I'm trying to make is nobody has a right to physically lay hands on you unless they're first provoked. If the security guy had first identified himself to me and politely just asked if I had any purchases in my backpack I would have gladly showed him what was inside and provided a bill of sale and I would have been on my way in under 5 minutes. Not even a policeman has the right to physically lay hands on you or even question you without first identifying himself and indicating his intentions as to why he's stopping you. It's not a case of protecting the crooks it's a case of protecting the general public's right from being wrongly accused or forcibly accosted.
 
To further elaborate on the OP's story if any store had forcibly conducted a strip search on my person that store and the employee's responsible would find themselves sitting in a court of law with charges of assault filed against them. No security officer has the right/should have the right to forcibly conduct a strip search on anyone for any reason. That kind of power should lie in the hands of the police not a security guard.