[tinyman392]

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It is entirely possible. Or it could be that the BA IEMs I heard weren't representative of BA IEMs as a whole. I did overemphasize a bit (well except with the ER4, since they really do have a near nonexistent soundstage), but I really haven't heard any BA that comes close to Dynamic Driver (Other than TG!334) in terms of soundstage. 

 
Westone W4, Heir Audio 3.Ai, Westone W3, Phonak PFE232...  List continues It's all tuning.  You can tune a BA to sound like a dynamic and a dynamic to sound like a BA. 

 

[Pianist]

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It definitely is
 
 
http://rinchoi.blogspot.gr/2013/03/hifiman-re-400-evolution-or-devolution.html
 
 
http://rinchoi.blogspot.gr/2012/11/hifiman-re-272.html

 
From those links, I see that RE272 has the more neutral frequency response, but RE400 has lower distortion. That makes it 1:1. Did I miss something?
 
What I find really strange is that RE0 has such a similar low end frequency response to RE400, yet sounds subjectively much lighter on the low end to my ears with significantly less extension, punch and definition. I wonder why that is. Perhaps RE400 is easier for me to fit properly.

 

[FarCry]

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RE272 has the more neutral frequency response, but RE400 has lower distortion.

 
 
 
That. Distortion doesnt play a role here. Both are well within inaudible limits

 

[Pianist]

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That. Distortion doesnt play a role here. Both are well within inaudible limits

 
Are you sure about that? Also, the frequency response comparisons depend on whether the "missing 6 db" effect is taken into account. RE400 may have the more proper bass quantity because, arguably, that makes up for the lack of the physical feeling of bass with headphones and especially IEMs.

 

[FarCry]

Quote:

 
Are you sure about that? Also, the frequency response comparisons depend on whether the "missing 6 db" effect is taken into account. RE400 may have the more proper bass quantity because, arguably, that makes up for the lack of the physical feeling of bass with headphones and especially IEMs.

 
 
 
Yes distortion threshold is 1% and both of them have 0.0 whatever

 
 
about the missing 6db you can read more here
 
 
 
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In 2011, Völk and Fastl find that the deviation of sound pressure in the ear canal can be effectively eliminated by utilizing a non-individualized binaural synthesis with headphones. With the introduction of a natural group delay in the sub-bass frequency range, there is the missing 6 dB effect no more. In other words, only when the association principles of headphone acoustics & speaker acoustics match, a direct comparison can be realized.

Yet, the studies from 2009 and 2011 contradict each other; they both utilize a non-individual binaural synthesis. However, since the former studies deal with automobile acoustics, of which vibration is much more prevalent in-situ, the latter one, which deals with reference, anechoic, and diffuse field conditions, shall be considered more commonly applicable in practice.
 
http://rinchoi.blogspot.gr/2012/05/on-case-of-missing-6-db-effect.html

 

[Pianist]

According to Rin Choi's measurements, RE272 also has more channel imbalance in the highs and that can impair the imaging ability somewhat. RE400 doesn't have this issue, so that's another win for RE400.

 

[kyuuketsuki]

Quote:

 
Westone W4, Heir Audio 3.Ai, Westone W3, Phonak PFE232...  List continues It's all tuning.  You can tune a BA to sound like a dynamic and a dynamic to sound like a BA. 

 
Heard Westone W4 and Phonak PFE232. Maybe it is time to reaudition when I get the chance. But I don't remember them besting the dynamic IEM I had at the time which was at similar price point. Granted this was probably about a year ago. I'll have a listen to them. However, there is only so much tuning can do in terms of timbre and soundstage, since BA and Dynamic move air differently and in differing quantities.
 
But again perhaps I haven't heard the right ones, or didn't audition for long enough or use the right tracks. 

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

 
about the missing 6db you can read more here

 
Apparently the issue remains unresolved. It seems that although there is now strong evidence against the "missing 6 db" effect, it has not yet been officially accepted as fact. But anyway, RE400 has a negligible bass boost that can easily be corrected with minor EQ tweaking. RE272's mismatch in the treble is harder to correct.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

 
Heard Westone W4 and Phonak PFE232. Maybe it is time to reaudition when I get the chance. But I don't remember them besting the dynamic IEM I had at the time which was at similar price point. Granted this was probably about a year ago. I'll have a listen to them. However, there is only so much tuning can do in terms of timbre and soundstage, since BA and Dynamic move air differently and in differing quantities.
 
But again perhaps I haven't heard the right ones, or didn't audition for long enough or use the right tracks. 

 
Move air differently?  They apply the same amounts of pressure onto the eardrum.  It's been measured and proven.  Your statement basically says that a BA can't move as much air (air pressure) as a dynamic.  Measuring them, we can show that a BA can move as much air as a dynamic as they can report the same decibels.  A decibel is 10 bels which is a logarithmic function of Pascals.  The pascal is a measure of pressure (in this case, air pressure). 

 

[Oof Oink]

RE272's mismatch in the treble is harder to correct.

Mismatch? I've owned the RE-272 for over a year now. Never noticed a mismatch.

You may very well prefer the RE-400, but that doesn't make the RE-272 any less proficient. It's still, to date, one of the least colored, most accurate sounding in-ears I've experienced.

 

[proedros]

this is quite a BIG statement and  i will take it with a grain of salt as i remember you saying black on some occasions , then changing to white moments(or posts)later regarding your thoughts on various iems
 
i am a big fan of hifiman , having purchased their re-zero/252/262/272 , looking really fwd to the re-600 even though i am completely broke and very happy with my re-272 (no upgraditis symptoms since 09/2011)
 
maybe if my 272 break or i get bored i will move to the 600
 
still need to see what kinfd of sound they will produce
 
amyone else here who has heard both 272/400 ? impressions ?
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Despite the treble issues, I still felt that they are a huge step up from RE0 and superior overall to  RE272.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

 
From those links, I see that RE272 has the more neutral frequency response, but RE400 has lower distortion. That makes it 1:1. Did I miss something?
 
What I find really strange is that RE0 has such a similar low end frequency response to RE400, yet sounds subjectively much lighter on the low end to my ears with significantly less extension, punch and definition. I wonder why that is. Perhaps RE400 is easier for me to fit properly.

 
One will be fit, the RE-400 simply fit deeper in an easier fashion.  The "filter" tip included with the 400s make it stupid easy to obtain a proper seal too   The second would be the signature.  Remember, the RE0 has a little bit more of the upper end than the RE-400s do.  A gain in treble is the same as a perceived loss in bass and mids.  The third would probably have to do more with decay...  The RE400 decays in a much more linear fashion, this would end up with it being thicker than the RE0s.  However, the subtle texturing should be better with the 0s (assuming a proper fit). 

 

[Pianist]

The problem is that current single armature IEMs have a limited bass and/or treble output due to the limitations of the driver. The bass is simply not as loud and not as extended as what dynamics, or multi driver armatures are capable of, or, alternatively, when the bass is made to sound strong and extended, the treble suffers. Single driver armatures can't do both greatly extended and punchy bass, plus high quality, extended treble - only one or the other. Dynamics and multi armatures can do both, but multi armatures often suck because many have audible phase issues. Currently, dynamic drivers are capable of providing the highest sound quality in IEMs if executed correctly IMO. Maybe the new phase correction electronics by Jerry Harvey can help multi armatures lose the audible phase issues too.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

Mismatch? I've owned the RE-272 for over a year now. Never noticed a mismatch.

You may very well prefer the RE-400, but that doesn't make the RE-272 any less proficient. It's still, to date, one of the least colored, most accurate sounding in-ears I've experienced.

 
Rin measured a slight mismatch in the treble with the RE-272. 

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

this is quite a BIG statement and  i will take it with a grain of salt as i remember you saying black on some occasions , then changing to white moments(or posts)later regarding your thoughts on various iems

 
Actually, having owned RE272 and RE262 at the same time and listening to both extensively, I preferred RE262 because I found them nearly identical to RE272 technically and in overall frequency balance and character. In fact, I found RE262 to have a slightly tighter bass and a more focused sound than that of RE272. Since then, I feel that RE272 were definitely overpriced at $250.