[jsgraha]

Ok, thanks for the warning. Guess I'll just grab a cheap amp then, until I can get a high end one. As you can tell by now, I have a thing for Schiit's stuff, so I'll probably get a Magni2 Uber. Any thoughts on that combination?

Vali is quite decent

 

[money4me247]

  Hi,
 
I am seriously considering buying the HE1000, but not without first trying the alternatives. I currently own the Shure SE846, and have tried the HD800 in the past. Yesterday I tested the Grado RS2i, the Beyerdynamic T1 (both with a Lehmann audio Linear SE amp) and the Stax SR-009 (with the SRM-007T II). In all cases I am using my AK240 as dac/player (non-balanced).
 
As expected, the Stax blew my mind. I found the bass to be a bit underwhelming, I was expecting a stronger punch. But that also held true for the other headphones, and the AK240 is famous for this, so I am not blaming it on the headphones. Everything about the Stax was just amazing. I felt like trading a kidney for the hp+amp
 
The Beyerdynamic were ok, but honestly I don't think they are worth the investment when compared, for example, with the HD800. They do seem to have a slightly stronger bass (again, I blame the lack of bass across the board on the AK240) but the clarity seemed to be nowhere near the HD800. While I did see a slight improvement in overall sound when compared with my current Shure SE846, I would honestly rather stick with my current IEM than spend ~1k on such a minor upgrade.
 
The Grado were the biggest letdown ever. Probably a lot of people will disagree, and I respect that, but, in my personal opinion, they are simply bad. They are uncomfortable (I tested the over ear model), as the foam/headphone actually touches my ear, and the seal around it is not uniform. I can imagine that, best case scenario, I would take a lot of getting used to, to actually be able to "forget" I am wearing headphones. Plus, as the seal around the ear is not complete, everything just sounds distorted and out of place. I never had this problem with any other over ears, so I am blaming it on the headphones rather than on my ears.
 
Tomorrow I am testing the Oppo PM1, the LCD-3 and LCD-X and, of course, the HE1K. I am kind of worried that, now that I have tried the Stax, everything else will just sound boring :S Has anyone compared these 2 headphones, that can give me a small comparison, or a heads up on what to expect?
 
thanks
 
EDIT: found what I was looking for here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/748334/hifiman-he1000-planar-dynamic-flagship/2985#post_11510244
 
I do have another question: if I do buy the HE1K, that will basically kill my "headphones and gadgets" budget for a few months, so I won't be able to get a proper amp for them right away. But I saw that they are rated at 35-38 ohms, so I thinks I "should" be able to temporarily drive them with my AK240. Alternatively I can buy a second hand amp on ebay for 100-200€, but I really wanted to avoid that. Is it possible to drive the HE1K with the AK240 or my PC's built in sound card?

@tiagojsag, I have a in-depth review comparing the HE-1000 against LCD-X and HE-560 in my signature. link here. HE-1k is faster with cleaner note spacing compared to the LCD-3/LCD-X. The Audeze headphones have more of a lush organic presentation compared to other flagships and it should be easy to appreciate the difference when doing direct comparison. Preference will play a part whether you enjoy that kind of presentation. Audeze headphones are on the really heavy side compared to competitors, so if you end up falling for their sound signature, I would highly recommend trying to do at least a 30min + extended demo to see if the weight bothers you. The PM-1 has a bit of that additional underlying warmth and lushness, but not to the extent as Audeze.
 
I've used the HE-1k with budget portable standalone amplifiers and it works fine. I do think better performance from a mid-tier desktop amplifier such as the Lyr 2. I've played with the HE-1k on some $1k and over amplifiers. while they were nice, the upgrade wasn't worth it for me. best amplifier pairing I found with the HE-1k was the mha-1000, but its sticker price is extremely high and I do not need speaker amps, so passed on that as well.
 
Also, I agree with your thoughts on the Grado's sound & design. I personally don't find the Grado's sound sig that enjoyable.
 
I actually had a chance to fiddle with a AK240, but not on the market for a DAP so didn't really bother to test that pairing with the HE-1k. I do want to note from my experience, I found the Chord Hugo a bit lacking when paired with the HE-1k in direct comparisons against a variety of mid-tier amplifiers in the sub-$1k price point and I strongly preferred other amplifier options against it. So I do personally feel that the Chord Hugo's amplifier section is not the best for getting the most out of the HE-1k.

 

[musicman59]

  Ok, thanks for the warning. Guess I'll just grab a cheap amp then, until I can get a high end one. As you can tell by now, I have a thing for Schiit's stuff, so I'll probably get a Magni2 Uber. Any thoughts on that combination?

Sorry I have no direct experience with any of their products.

 

[ubs28]

@tiagojsag
, I have a in-depth review comparing the HE-1000 against LCD-X and HE-560 in my signature. link here. HE-1k is faster with cleaner note spacing compared to the LCD-3/LCD-X. The Audeze headphones have more of a lush organic presentation compared to other flagships and it should be easy to appreciate the difference when doing direct comparison. Preference will play a part whether you enjoy that kind of presentation. Audeze headphones are on the really heavy side compared to competitors, so if you end up falling for their sound signature, I would highly recommend trying to do at least a 30min + extended demo to see if the weight bothers you. The PM-1 has a bit of that additional underlying warmth and lushness, but not to the extent as Audeze.

I've used the HE-1k with budget portable standalone amplifiers and it works fine. I do think better performance from a mid-tier desktop amplifier such as the Lyr 2. I've played with the HE-1k on some $1k and over amplifiers. while they were nice, the upgrade wasn't worth it for me. best amplifier pairing I found with the HE-1k was the mha-1000, but its sticker price is extremely high and I do not need speaker amps, so passed on that as well.

Also, I agree with your thoughts on the Grado's sound & design. I personally don't find the Grado's sound sig that enjoyable.

I actually had a chance to fiddle with a AK240, but not on the market for a DAP so didn't really bother to test that pairing with the HE-1k. I do want to note from my experience, I found the Chord Hugo a bit lacking when paired with the HE-1k in direct comparisons against a variety of mid-tier amplifiers in the sub-$1k price point and I strongly preferred other amplifier options against it. So I do personally feel that the Chord Hugo's amplifier section is not the best for getting the most out of the HE-1k.

What is lacking about the hugo + HE-1000? Woukd the HD800 work better with the Hugo?

 

[money4me247]

What is lacking about the hugo + HE-1000? Woukd the HD800 work better with the Hugo?

strictly as a personal opinion and from just side-by-side comparisons from a variety of different gear, I noticed that some of technical attributes of the HE-1000 were not represented as well. The HE-1000 sounded a bit thin and tinny on the Hugo and its dynamic range seems a bit compressed. Not as rich and full-bodied sound with less impact. Smaller soundstage as well. I was not able to get the best volume out of it either even when fully maxed. However, that is not saying that the Hugo is not a capable amplifier in general. These are just relative observations. Maybe using it for traveling, it is adequate, but I would not personally use the Hugo as a dedicated desktop amplifier for the HE-1000. There are many inexpensive amplifier options that give a more realistic weight and presence to notes for the HE-1000. In no way am I trying to knock on the Hugo in general. I just didn't think that its amplifier is very impressive. I tried the Hugo with the HD800 as well, and did feel that there were other amplifiers were performed better for that combination as well. The Hugo is really designed as a dac primarily with its amplifier as an add-on feature anyway.
 
I really just meant that comment to illustrate that sometimes an expensive portable set-up may not be representative of how gear sounds with your home set-up.

 

[JaZZ]

  strictly as a personal opinion and from just side-by-side comparisons from a variety of different gear, I noticed that some of technical attributes of the HE-1000 were not represented as well. The HE-1000 sounded a bit thin and tinny on the Hugo and its dynamic range seems a bit compressed. Not as rich and full-bodied sound with less impact. Smaller soundstage as well. I was not able to get the best volume out of it either even when fully maxed. However, that is not saying that the Hugo is not a capable amplifier in general. These are just relative observations. Maybe using it for traveling, it is adequate, but I would not personally use the Hugo as a dedicated desktop amplifier for the HE-1000. There are many inexpensive amplifier options that give a more realistic weight and presence to notes for the HE-1000. In no way am I trying to knock on the Hugo in general. I just didn't think that its amplifier is very impressive. I tried the Hugo with the HD800 as well, and did feel that there were other amplifiers were performed better for that combination as well. The Hugo is really designed as a dac primarily with its amplifier as an add-on feature anyway.
 
I really just meant that comment to illustrate that sometimes an expensive portable set-up may not be representative of how gear sounds with your home set-up.

 
The Hugo has been primarily designed as a portable DAC/amp, so both functions had equal priority. Now it has turned out to be a valuable candidate for a home system component with double function. And to my ears it would be a shame to not make use of this unique advantage: the ability to make an additional amplifier obsolete. Not out of financial considerations in the first place, but in the interest of signal accuracy. I'm aware that some amps added to the mix may provide a welcome shift of sonic balance, but the latter aspect can also be respected with (subtle) equalizing, without the obligatory signal degradation from additional electronics in the signal path. Plus an EQ can do even more.
 
That said, although I'm just at the start of fine-tuning my pair of HE1000 with only ~50 hours play time from my part, I've found an EQ curve which I like a lot – and I'm optimistic that it will get even better, from both break-in as well as EQ fine-tuning.
 
For those interested and in possession of a FiiO player:      +1    +0.2     ––     ––     ––     ––     +2.8    +1.4    +0.8    +1.6        For clarification: I'm trying to make the HE1000 as neutral as it gets to my ears.

 

[doctorjazz]

I have found the HEK to work pretty well with the Pono with balanced Norne cable/Pono adapter. Has enough power, better sounding through MicroZOTL2 and other dedicated amps, but fine to listen to, volume about 4-5 O clock.

 

[ubs28]

  strictly as a personal opinion and from just side-by-side comparisons from a variety of different gear, I noticed that some of technical attributes of the HE-1000 were not represented as well. The HE-1000 sounded a bit thin and tinny on the Hugo and its dynamic range seems a bit compressed. Not as rich and full-bodied sound with less impact. Smaller soundstage as well. I was not able to get the best volume out of it either even when fully maxed. However, that is not saying that the Hugo is not a capable amplifier in general. These are just relative observations. Maybe using it for traveling, it is adequate, but I would not personally use the Hugo as a dedicated desktop amplifier for the HE-1000. There are many inexpensive amplifier options that give a more realistic weight and presence to notes for the HE-1000. In no way am I trying to knock on the Hugo in general. I just didn't think that its amplifier is very impressive. I tried the Hugo with the HD800 as well, and did feel that there were other amplifiers were performed better for that combination as well. The Hugo is really designed as a dac primarily with its amplifier as an add-on feature anyway.
 
I really just meant that comment to illustrate that sometimes an expensive portable set-up may not be representative of how gear sounds with your home set-up.

Ok thanks. I was under the impression that the HE-1000 was much easier to drive and I could use my Hugo for it. Perhaps it's best to buy a dedicated amplifier for the HD800 then in combination with the Chord Hugo (I already have a Sennheiser HD800 and a Chord Hugo).

 

[JaZZ]

  Ok thanks. I was under the impression that the HE-1000 was much easier to drive and I could use my Hugo for it. Perhaps it's best to buy a dedicated amplifier for the HD800 then in combination with the Chord Hugo (I already have a Sennheiser HD800 and a Chord Hugo).

 
The HE1000 is easy to drive. Easier than the HD 800. Sensitivity is about the same, just marginally lower. Impdance is much lower and almost perfectly linear, in contrast to the HD 800's. The «mismatch» described by money4me247 is the result of a not ideal sonic synergy between Hugo and HE1000 – to his ears. Your ears may be different.
 
I have tried the HE1000 with my Corda Symphony, and although I like the sound a lot, there's too much detail and accuracy lost in comparison to the direct connection with the Hugo. To my experience that will be the case with any amp, since the Hugo is a unique design in that it uses its DAC to drive headphones – no further amplification stage. That's why headphone out and line out share the same path. But you may know that already.
 
I use to optimize the sonic balance by means of equalizing on a regular basis, individually for the configuration at hand, so it's hard to tell which is more neutral or more pleasing with EQ off, as I usually don't spend much time with this. But I can tell that with above EQ curve it sounds as neutral as I ever heard a headphone. And extremely detailed.

 

[Mark Up]

I tried the HE1000 at a NYC audio show, after trying the Audeze LCD-2 (my favorite Audeze and headphone sound in general). It was too heavy (not so much the weight, but the ability to fall off your head if you lean in any direction) to be practical for me. I digress. The HE1000 lacked warmth and subs compared to it, and was just too bright and strident.

 

[NZtechfreak]

I tried the HE1000 at a NYC audio show, after trying the Audeze LCD-2 (my favorite Audeze and headphone sound in general). It was too heavy (not so much the weight, but the ability to fall off your head if you lean in any direction) to be practical for me. I digress. The HE1000 lacked warmth and subs compared to it, and was just too bright and strident.

Wow, you must have some of the most brightness-sensitive ears out there. I don't even think Tyll thinks these are bright. What music were you listening too?

 

[DreamKing]

   
My dad's classic rock records sound pretty damn good for being 40+ years old, way pre 80. Sometimes the nitty gritty can not take the crackle out though. Listening to Elton John Tumbleweed Connection and Santana Inner Secrets. Really good stuff. Allot better sounding than allot of modern day recordings.

 
Yeah classic rock had some of the greatest engineers working on their albums. Raw, gritty production works very well too with rock. Raw Power is one of the greatest albums ever to me and no headphone could make it sound bad to my ears. I'm pretty astonished with jazz too. The 2011 remastered LP of Love Supreme blew my mind as far as pristine quality, but the 1965 original master already sounded great.

 

[Brucemck2]

  The HE1000 lacked warmth and subs compared to it, and was just too bright and strident.

 
IME the HE1000 isn't remotely bright or strident, and if anything leans towards the warm side when compared to typical audiophile preferences.

 

[DreamKing]

   
The HE1000 is easy to drive. Easier than the HD 800. Sensitivity is about the same, just marginally lower. Impdance is much lower and almost perfectly linear, in contrast to the HD 800's. The «mismatch» described by money4me247 is the result of a not ideal sonic synergy between Hugo and HE1000 – to his ears. Your ears may be different.

 
I'm sorry, 6.8 dB difference in efficiency is a big deal. Not marginal. From an objective standpoint and from the manufacturer reported specs, the HE-1000 is much harder to drive. The HD 800 needs much less power to drive it to high dB levels.

 

[purk]

   
I'm sorry, 6.8 dB difference in efficiency is a big deal. Not marginal. From an objective standpoint and from the manufacturer reported specs, the HE-1000 is much harder to drive. The HD 800 needs much less power to drive it to high dB levels.

Yup, agreed.  The HD800 is easier to drive.  Don't let the impedance rating fool you.