[JaZZ]

   
I'm sorry, 6.8 dB difference in efficiency is a big deal. Not marginal. From an objective standpoint and from the manufacturer reported specs, the HE-1000 is much harder to drive. The HD 800 needs much less power to drive it to high dB levels.

 

  Yup, agreed.  The HD800 is easier to drive.  Don't let the impedance rating fool you.

 
I'm not fooled in the least. I just go by my own Hugo settings – which are about identical for both. And by the fact that I have about equal reserves with both.
 
So you're actually right (well: one of you): Specs mean nothing in this case.
 
I just did some research. As far as the mentioned 6.8 dB difference in efficiency goes: It's about equalized by the lower impedance: HD 800: ~400 ohms; HE1000: 34 ohms (source: Inner Fidelity). That's about 6.5 dB in favor of the HE1000, so they're about equal in terms of sensitivity (theoretically). And then there's the flatter response of impedance and electrical phase of the HE1000 speaking in its favor.

 

[DreamKing]

If you use a calculator, or do the math, from the manufacturer reported specs the 6.8 dB difference in efficiency means that the HE-1000 needs 

316.83 ​

mW to get to 115 dB, HD-800 needs 66 mW. You can't find equal efficiency in this case.
 
If you don't need to change anything on your amp that's good for you then but that doesn't mean the HD 800 is easier to drive, at all. The HE-1000 being purely resistive (like all planars) only means the output impedance on the amp won't matter as far as driving it.

 

[JaZZ]

  If you use a calculator, or do the math, from the manufacturer reported specs the 6.8 dB difference in efficiency means that the HE-1000 needs 

316.83 ​

mW to get to 115 dB, HD-800 needs 66 mW. I don't know how you can find equal efficiency.
 
If you don't need to change anything on your amp that's good for you then but that doesn't mean the HD 800 is easier to drive, at all. The HE-1000 being purely resistive (like all planars) only means the output impedance on the amp won't matter as far as driving it.

 
I wasn't talking of efficiency, but sensitivity. By the way, there's some measuring data on Inner Fidelity: HD 800: 0.242 V_RMS for 90 dB SPL; HE1000: 0.287 V_RMS for 90 dB SPL. That translates to a difference of less than 0.5 dB.
 
What I was saying is that the HE1000 isn't harder to drive than the HD 800 (now you're mixing it up

), rather easier, and that's substantiated by the measuring data. In turn your (and Purk's) hypothesis that the HE1000 is (much) harder to drive is simply unjustifiable.
 
The same Head-Fi myth about hard to drive headphones is spread about the HD 800 since ages, and it's just as little justified. It's a quite efficient headphone with a high impedance, nothing special for a decent amp. The cause of the myth in its case is its critical (treble-friendly) sonic balance calling for counterbalancing electronics. Apropos HE1000: There's no easier load for an amp than a planar transducer. Unless it's unsensitive, in which case the power is decisive.

 

[up late]

They are close but you can tell the difference. HEK was using stock cable, Abyss was using DHC Spore 4 Silver. I am waiting on the adapters from Peter for the Spore 4 cable. Then I will be able to compare then on an even keel.

maybe you could - it wasn't apparent to me

 

[JaZZ]

I forgot to mention: The HE1000 sounds phenomenal to my ears – perfectioned with some equalizing* –, directly driven by the Hugo.
 
* a smart trick to overcome a possible lack of sonic synergy

 

[MacedonianHero]

  I concur with this. i tried my HE-1000 with my AK240 and I need to max out the AK240 volume to have a decent volume level but still clearly under powered.

 
Quick question...where you running the HE1000s an AK240 in balanced mode?

 

[DreamKing]

   
I wasn't talking of efficiency, but sensitivity. By the way, there's some measuring data on Inner Fidelity: HD 800: 0.242 V_RMS for 90 dB SPL; HE1000: 0.287 V_RMS for 90 dB SPL. That translates to a difference of less than 0.5 dB.
 
What I was saying is that the HE1000 isn't harder to drive than the HD 800 (now you're mixing it up

), rather easier, and that's substantiated by the measuring data. In turn your (and Purk's) hypothesis that the HE1000 is (much) harder to drive is simply unjustifiable.
 
The same Head-Fi myth about hard to drive headphones is spread about the HD 800 since ages, and it's just as little justified. It's a quite efficient headphone with a high impedance, nothing special for a decent amp. The cause of the myth in its case is its critical (treble-friendly) sonic balance calling for counterbalancing electronics. Apropos HE1000: There's no easier load for an amp than a planar transducer. Unless it's unsensitive, in which case the power is decisive.

 
I'm going by what you said:

   
The HE1000 is easy to drive. Easier than the HD 800. 
 

 
If you don't need to change anything on your amp that's good for you then but that doesn't mean the HD 800 is easier to drive, at all. 
 

And I'm going by the data too, be it manufacturer based or Tyll's, they never show the HD 800 to be easier to drive.  By Innerfidelity's data, if it takes 0.287 Vrms to get to 90dB SPL for the HE-1000 but 0.242 Vrms for the HD 800 or 2.45 mW for the HE-K and 0.16 mW for the HD 800, the HD 800 is not easier to drive, it's the opposite. Less than 0.5 dB difference, how'd you find that out? Please demonstrate, because the higher the dB SPL you need, the more and more voltage or power you need.
 
Planars being an easier load because they're purely resistive is just relative to the amp's output impedance, which makes it irrelevant. If a planar has lower efficiency or sensitivity than the HD 800 in this case,  based on the data, there's still no way it's easier to drive. All you have to do is try or read about the HE-6 to realize the ability to drive them is still dependent on their efficiency.

 

[lukeap69]

Have you guys noticed that the more power you feed planar headphones, the better the SQ is? Perhaps that is an overgeneralisation?

 

[money4me247]

  I'm sorry, 6.8 dB difference in efficiency is a big deal. Not marginal. From an objective standpoint and from the manufacturer reported specs, the HE-1000 is much harder to drive. The HD 800 needs much less power to drive it to high dB levels.

This is actually correct from a technical standpoint. 
 
The Hifiman HE-1000 has a 90 dB SPL/mW sensitivity and 35+/-3 ohm impedance. This results in 316mW of power required to reach 115dB.
 
The HD800 has a sensitivity of 102db/1Vrms and 300 ohm impedance, which results in 67mW of power required to reach 115dB.
 
So from a calculated specification standpoint, the HE-1000 is quite a bit more difficult to drive than the HD800. If the Chord Hugo's specifications are listed in average power rather than max power (unknown as not specified), it just barely has enough power for the HD800 (70mW at 300 ohms). It does give enough power for the HE-1000 with 600mW at 32 ohms, but there are some people (and planar magnetic manufacturers such as Audeze) that do recommend 1-2 watts extra power for planar magnetic headphones. Dr. Fang also said himself that he does not feel that the Chord Hugo's amplifier is ideal for the HE-1000.
 
That being said, I am not saying that the Chord Hugo is a bad product by any means and if you have it for the HE-1000, I am sure it will be very enjoyable. I just personally think that you can find a better amplifier pairing for the HE-1000 at a better price point though from my comparative experiences. My original comment was really only to agree with the poster who was using the AK240 that I have also found that sometimes using different gear for auditioning rather than your final set-up may result in differing experiences, so it may be a good idea to try a few different components when demoing if possible prior to immediately ruling things out or to help figure out which headphone suits you the best.
 
Of course, this is just my personal opinion and there are many other perspectives on pairings. Also, do note that the impact of amplifiers and dacs are generally quite small relative to different headphones from my personal experience, so I wouldn't worry too much about external component pairings until after you find the perfect headphones for you & then maybe try fiddling around a bit if you are bored & are not tight on money. Upgrading external components can get very pricey very quickly and price point does not always correlate with what will fit best for you.
 
cheers!
 
edit: also, a note on judging power based on volume-matching by ear... this can be a bit tricky or misleading as we are sensitive to different regions of the frequency response so depending on what area of the FR curve that you are 'volume-matching,' the results do not always correlate with how much power a pair of headphones need since these two headphones have variations in FR response between them. The HD800 is relatively brighter sounding to me, so if you are more sensitive to treble, you may be setting the HD800 at a lower volume level than the HE-1000. Or if volume matching based on bass, it is possible to set the HE1000 at a lower dB level than the HD800 since it has more sub-bass presence and a warmer tonality in comparison. etc etc

 

[money4me247]

  Have you guys noticed that the more power you feed planar headphones, the better the SQ is? Perhaps that is an overgeneralisation?

overgeneralization I think. I think there are many other factors at play and you cannot just go by an amplifier's power rating to determine its sound quality from my personal experimentation.

 

[jibzilla]

 
 
If you don't need to change anything on your amp that's good for you then but that doesn't mean the HD 800 is easier to drive, at all. The HE-1000 being purely resistive (like all planars) only means the output impedance on the amp won't matter as far as driving it.

 
I realize that but in my experience planars really do seem to benefit from low ohm output and hd800 from high ohm output impedance. Totally subjective. Totally could be something else at work. But man at least from what I have heard it's def. there. On the opposite end I have seen people claim to the hilt that the hd800 was designed to be run with zero ohm output. I just do not believe it for a new York minute. Literally night and difference for me feeding the hd800 from ohm output amps.

 

[JaZZ]

You guys put efficiency in the foreground when it comes to «hard to drive». In fact sensitivity is the decisive point. A low impedance makes it easy for an amp to output a lot of current, a high impedance makes it harder. So sensitivity is what counts in terms of the power output capability of the amp, and there both headphones are about equal. Add to this the HE1000's flatter response for impedance and electrical phase. That's not a negligible point in this context, since the impedance curve makes for a dependency between serial impedance and frequency response, and the electrical phase may have an impact on the amp's power delivery and harmonic distortion. So when it comes to «easy to drive», the HE1000 has even a slight advantage compared to the HD 800. This may in fact be rather academic, but the unfounded claim about the HE1000 being hard to drive and the Hugo not being able to drive it adequately is even less than that. I can turn up the volume to levels in the white range which I never would listen to, and the sound remains clean and controlled.
 
I really enjoy the HE1000 driven by the Hugo, it has everything I want, particularly it sounds extremely neutral and natural (the EQ curve needed is milder than with every other of my headphones), energetic, clean, transparent and highly accurate. Imaging is the best I've heard from a headphone, the same goes for the bass, where it even beats the excellent HD 800. The only thing the HD 800 is «better» (more lifelike) is the spatial presentation. But in terms of depth of image the HE1000 is superior.
 
When I use the Corda Symphony or the Mapletree EAR++ (with Black Gates) in addition to the Hugo, the change of sonic balance is obvious. It requires a different EQ curve for a neutral presentation. The sound is rounder and less accurate, there's a slight smearing of details – with the EAR++ more so than with the Symphony. Not really unplaisant, but it's not what I'm looking for. The Hugo alone sounds more explosive with transients, also and particularly with bass drums and the like.
 

  I realize that but in my experience planars really do seem to benefit from low ohm output and hd800 from high ohm output impedance. Totally subjective. Totally could be something else at work. But man at least from what I have heard it's def. there. On the opposite end I have seen people claim to the hilt that the hd800 was designed to be run with zero ohm output. I just do not believe it for a new York minute. Literally night and difference for me feeding the hd800 from ohm output amps.

 
That may be one component of the story about the HD 800 being picky in terms of amps. If you look at the impedance curve, it's clear that a serial impedance will increase the bass around 100 Hz. Personally I don't consider that the ideal solution, since the HD 800 benefits more from an increase of the lower bass.

 

[up late]

ok

 

[alabrand]

Hey guys, does anyone know if the HiFiMAN HE1000 is a good fit for the Benchmark DAC2?

 

[musicman59]

Quick question...where you running the HE1000s an AK240 in balanced mode?

Hi Peter,
I tried it single ended but the difference is just .2 Of a volt or 10% according to the AK240 specs. It will help going balance but I still think the powering could be marginal.