[Endreall]

Hi,
 
I'm rather new to this forum so bear with me if I said anything wrong.
 
I just bought a HE-400 and was wondering if portable amp is really needed; currently using Westone IEM W4 and Audio Technica Noise cancelling ATH-ANC9.
 
As the headphone is new, it is not fully burned-in yet hence I think what I am hearing now might not be the final result I will be getting (it is stated to let it run for 150 hrs before the full potential of the headphone can be realized); I may be wrong though!
 
I have a RSA predator with about 500+ hours in but when I run it through this setup:
 
HTC one > USB Line Out > Predator DAC/AMP > HE-400
 
I can't to get the volume to the max. Of course there isn't really a need to do so as with the gain set at "mid" and the volume gain at 3/4 of the way, it is sufficiently loud. But if I go more than that, maybe to 80 - 85%, the sound get distorted quite badly. Is it because the predator does not have enough juice for it?
 
I tried using my Denon A/V receiver AVR-3806 (supposedly to be quite good, cost me a grand or two), the volume isn't a problem and there isn't any distortion and noise etc (Since HE-400 is easy to drive)
 
PC > Coax > AVR > HE-400
 
I just want to ask, do you guys think Fiio E17 will be better than RSA predator? Does the burn-in makes a difference here? I understand that both the amp and the headphones are still far off being fully burned-in.
 
HE-400 has quite a bright treble at the higher frequencies currently, it can a bit hurtful if I have it at a louder volume. Does the HE-400 mellow down a little after the burn in? The 'Ss' from the some (not all) vocals or high tone cymbals can be rather sharp/harsh so I was wondering is that normal for HE-400. W4 also have this issue but only at the really higher frequencies and it isn't really that bad compared to the HEs.
 
I also have the option to get a HD650 but I like the clarity soundstage in HE-400. Its just the sharp trebles that is keeping me wondering whether I should jump the ship.
 
Please advise.

 

[MrMateoHead]

Quote:

I just bought a HE-400 and was wondering if portable amp is really needed; currently using Westone IEM W4 and Audio Technica Noise cancelling ATH-ANC9.
 
As the headphone is new, it is not fully burned-in yet hence I think what I am hearing now might not be the final result I will be getting (it is stated to let it run for 150 hrs before the full potential of the headphone can be realized); I may be wrong though!
 
I have a RSA predator with about 500+ hours in but when I run it through this setup:
 
HTC one > USB Line Out > Predator DAC/AMP > HE-400
 
I can't to get the volume to the max. Of course there isn't really a need to do so as with the gain set at "mid" and the volume gain at 3/4 of the way, it is sufficiently loud. But if I go more than that, maybe to 80 - 85%, the sound get distorted quite badly. Is it because the predator does not have enough juice for it?
 
I tried using my Denon A/V receiver AVR-3806 (supposedly to be quite good, cost me a grand or two), the volume isn't a problem and there isn't any distortion and noise etc (Since HE-400 is easy to drive)
 
PC > Coax > AVR > HE-400
 
I just want to ask, do you guys think Fiio E17 will be better than RSA predator? Does the burn-in makes a difference here? I understand that both the amp and the headphones are still far off being fully burned-in.
 
HE-400 has quite a bright treble at the higher frequencies currently, it can a bit hurtful if I have it at a louder volume. Does the HE-400 mellow down a little after the burn in? The 'Ss' from the some (not all) vocals or high tone cymbals can be rather sharp/harsh so I was wondering is that normal for HE-400. W4 also have this issue but only at the really higher frequencies and it isn't really that bad compared to the HEs.
 
I also have the option to get a HD650 but I like the clarity soundstage in HE-400. Its just the sharp trebles that is keeping me wondering whether I should jump the ship.
 
Please advise.

Hi there -
 
Its pretty simple. DON'T waste money on an amp yet - if you couldn't crank it without hurting your ears, you probably have enough power. That's 90% of what you need from an amp.
 
I would get used to listening to the HE-400 for awhile before springing for an amp. It took me a long while before I realized that my laptop was a) a little noisy but b) (and more importantly) unable to drive the HE-400s to levels I wanted on SOME, but not all situations.
 
Primarily, High Dynamic Range recordings (like movies, classical music, sometimes video games) benefit from more available power. My Laptop already had both very good power and very good sound. I ended up purchasing an O2 anyway because A) It definitely provided way more power and B) it wasn't overly expensive (though far from what I call cheap). I also figured it would be nice to have an amp that would always work well with changing sources / headphones as I continue my music obsession.
 
But I definitely had some buyer's remorse at first, and was surprised by the very different and, dare I say it, 'harsher / thinner' sound I heard (at first). As I got used to the amp and my phones some more, I realized it is actually a kick butt setup. Its very cool to have a totally black amp. But the change is probably not worth it if you currently have stuff that pleases you!

 

[MrMateoHead]

On that last post I have a question -
 
Does anyone know if the ODAC will work ok on future USB 3.0 ports? I can't remember if 3.0/2.0 are essentially compatible or not.

 

[modulor]

Quote:

On that last post I have a question -
 
Does anyone know if the ODAC will work ok on future USB 3.0 ports? I can't remember if 3.0/2.0 are essentially compatible or not.

Yup, I use mine with my laptop that only has USB 3.0 with no problems...3.0 ports are essentially backwards compatible with all previous versions.

 

[Endreall]

Thx for your reply!
 
So just to check, for HE-400, using poweramp for HTC-one, is sufficient?
 
Will there be any decrease in quality if I use anything otherwise? How do I know if some of the hiss is due to the noise from the phone or is the music itself?
 
I'm not home now so can't really test out actively with my AVR.

 

[beaver316]

Quote: Posted by EI definitely 

Thx for your reply!
 
So just to check, for HE-400, using poweramp for HTC-one, is sufficient?
 
Will there be any decrease in quality if I use anything otherwise? How do I know if some of the hiss is due to the noise from the phone or is the music itself?
 
I'm not home now so can't really test out actively with my AVR.

 
I used poweramp in the past and i definitely got hiss with it. Make sure the preamp setting is at 0, and turn off any replay gain. Alternatively try another player and see if you get hiss there, just to prove whether it's Poweramp at fault. 

 

[davidsh]

You could consider going form the speaker output on your receiver.

 

[Luczez]

Usb 3.0 and 2.0 are compatible in terms on "A" connector. Watch out as the 3.0 "B" cables have a different shape of plug.
 

 

[jay567]

Quote:

 
I used poweramp in the past and i definitely got hiss with it. Make sure the preamp setting is at 0, and turn off any replay gain. Alternatively try another player and see if you get hiss there, just to prove whether it's Poweramp at fault. 

Also use neutron player. ugly I know, but all audiophiles should use it.

 

[Endreall]

I had neutron player last time.. but yupz, the UI is messier compared to poweramp. Anyway, just want to ask about the materials used on building the HE-400. Do you reckon it will rust? Should I oil it a little?

 

[Lohb]

Hi, has anyone fitted mini-XLR connectors to their HFM's ? Can you recommend any seller on ebay that sells the female cup connectors if you have modded the cable system ?
Thanks !

 

[jay567]

Quote:

I had neutron player last time.. but yupz, the UI is messier compared to poweramp. Anyway, just want to ask about the materials used on building the HE-400. Do you reckon it will rust? Should I oil it a little?

Haven't read your exact comments but if you are asking whether HTC one is sufficient, I would say yes if you used neutron player. PowerAMP looks good but SQ is not up there imo and this is definitely noticeable with headphones; not so much with iems.

 

[MrMateoHead]

Quote:

Thx for your reply!
 
So just to check, for HE-400, using poweramp for HTC-one, is sufficient?
 
Will there be any decrease in quality if I use anything otherwise? How do I know if some of the hiss is due to the noise from the phone or is the music itself?
 
I'm not home now so can't really test out actively with my AVR.

Hey Endreall -
 
I don't know the specifications of the HTC One so I am not sure if, on paper, it would qualify as 'sufficient'. What I do know is that my Cell Phone definitely does not sound as good as my computer nor does it have as much power. So, there is quite a bit of performance left on the table. Both my phone and my computer present some 'hiss', but it is not detectable when actually listening to music unless the music is full of quiet passages. Some people on this forum have complained about beats audio, so that may or may not be an issue on the road to best possible sound quality.
 
Now you claim that you go from phone to predator to HE-400, which is a different thing entirely. I cannot find any specifications for that DAC/AMP, so only those that own them could probably attempt to compare performance to alternatives. My intuition says that it would probably be a perfectly fine setup however.
 
The way to test for Hiss (that I do sometimes), is to basically to just play some modern pop music. Practically anything. A good deal of recordings, particularly Pop recordings, never have any hiss in them by design. A lot of electronic music, hip hop, and so on introduce hiss at the recording level as a result of sampling, or a need to sound 'lo fi'. A second way to test for hiss would be to watch a DVD/BluRay (isn't testing fun?!). In many cases, you need to crank the volume very high just to hear the dialog (so, you are asking for closer to max power without distortion, and without killing your ears). If you are also hearing hiss, it is 99% likely it is amp- or source-based. That is because 'high dynamic range' recordings like movies and sometimes classical music demand huge peaks within the recording.
 
My laptop creates audible hiss at near-max volumes, but it is really, really hard to detect unless you are looking for it. It is undetectable under 90% of listening conditions. So, remember that some noise is not necessarily a deal breaker (even if it isn't ideal). My car amp / source (not sure which) is a little noisy at times, also. But given the noisy environment of a car, I hear it only once in a blue moon.

 

[jay567]

Quote:

Hey Endreall -
 
I don't know the specifications of the HTC One so I am not sure if, on paper, it would qualify as 'sufficient'. What I do know is that my Cell Phone definitely does not sound as good as my computer nor does it have as much power. So, there is quite a bit of performance left on the table. Both my phone and my computer present some 'hiss', but it is not detectable when actually listening to music unless the music is full of quiet passages. Some people on this forum have complained about beats audio, so that may or may not be an issue on the road to best possible sound quality.
 
Now you claim that you go from phone to predator to HE-400, which is a different thing entirely. I cannot find any specifications for that DAC/AMP, so only those that own them could probably attempt to compare performance to alternatives. My intuition says that it would probably be a perfectly fine setup however.
 
The way to test for Hiss (that I do sometimes), is to basically to just play some modern pop music. Practically anything. A good deal of recordings, particularly Pop recordings, never have any hiss in them by design. A lot of electronic music, hip hop, and so on introduce hiss at the recording level as a result of sampling, or a need to sound 'lo fi'. A second way to test for hiss would be to watch a DVD/BluRay (isn't testing fun?!). In many cases, you need to crank the volume very high just to hear the dialog (so, you are asking for closer to max power without distortion, and without killing your ears). If you are also hearing hiss, it is 99% likely it is amp- or source-based. That is because 'high dynamic range' recordings like movies and sometimes classical music demand huge peaks within the recording.
 
My laptop creates audible hiss at near-max volumes, but it is really, really hard to detect unless you are looking for it. It is undetectable under 90% of listening conditions. So, remember that some noise is not necessarily a deal breaker (even if it isn't ideal). My car amp / source (not sure which) is a little noisy at times, also. But given the noisy environment of a car, I hear it only once in a blue moon.

 
The HTC One or any relatively new android has top notch DACs and they really have no problems driving HE-400; from experience, it should be comparable to at least the E17 level of ampage when looking at the SQ subjectively.
 
Really wanna let the community know that this HE-400 does scale with power but not so much with DACs but this is a headphone which Hifiman says it is usable unamped and I totally agree unless you listen at ear damaging levels.

 

[modulor]

Quote:

Usb 3.0 and 2.0 are compatible in terms on "A" connector. Watch out as the 3.0 "B" cables have a different shape of plug.
 

Very true.  Using a USB 2.0 A-plug cable will work in any USB 3.0 A-socket.  B-plugs/sockets and Micro-A/B plugs/sockets are reserved for device side input, but the other end is typically a 3.0 A-plug/socket to attach to a computer.  A 2.0 B-plug could technically fit into a 3.0 B-socket, but unless the device itself has backwards compatibility it wouldn't work.  Actually, I don't think I've even seen a 3.0 B plug/socket on any devices in person yet, but I have seen a few Micro B on external drives.
 
*Edit* Also, 2.0 Micro plugs will fit into a 3.0 Micro socket and so long as the device supports it (which it should) it will revert to 2.0 speeds but still function properly.