[richard51]

 
Was that before/after objectively measured like for instance the DIY Fazor on the LCD-2 thread which had multiple before/after graphs ?

no, when you do experiment and your ears are satisfied... its news .... I dont have measure experiment apparatus...sorry... But all the mods i know of  of are, risky, more costly or not so easy to make, not always reversible.... Hence its very simple to experiment.... The transformation of the sound is spectacular....But with the right formula for the patches... For me its 12 patches on the exterior cups, 30 duro,1/8 inches,of self stick sorbothane... No going back to the old he 400, and i listen no more with my basic Stax....i am only the messenger read the thread it will not kill you

 
 
p.s. by the way i read that you design cups hence we needed you for the measure experimentation part...go to this thread EdStrelow is a very helpful man at the origin of this thread
 
my best regards to you

 

[MrMateoHead]

   
I don't know if it's been mentioned or not before (not fancy flipping through 1300+ of pages ), but HE-400 is what I call 'classic planar', meaning it's both low impedance and low efficiency, which is actually a 'nightmare' for small/portable amps. Low efficiency means it need more power (watt), Low impedance means it doesn't need very high voltage to overcome the resistance, but also means it needs higher/bigger stable current (ampere). 
 
 I don't really understand the full technicalities, but it seems cranking voltage (in an amp) is much easier than cranking current, thus providing a good amount, stable current seems to be a pain in the butt for portable amps. 
 
HE400:
- 92.5 dB/mW
- 35 ohms
 
Compare it to 'newer generation' of planar:
 
LCD-3
- 102 dB/mW
- 110 ohms
(from this data alone, LCD-3 is actually more efficient and easier to drive than M50 series)
 
Well, theory aside, I also used E10 (same, without k) before, and it seemed to be lacking a bit for HE400, at least for me. Not the volume (it can get quite loud on E10), but the overall sounds. Ended up selling it, and getting Aune T1.
 
Of course, best is to try it first. You might be content with the result of HE400 + E10. 

From Innerfidelity, the HE-400 has been measured at more like 50 Ohms. 0.33 mW (0.129V rms) for 90 dB.
 
The LCD-3 has been measured at more like 60 Ohms, needing about 0.66 mW (0.196V rms) for 90 dB (twice as much power). There are several other S/Ns to look at, and most seem to measure slightly different impedance / power requirements (typically even more power). I find that troubling as I don't know if variation is product-to-product, or a result of how they were measured. I like the idea that products are damn near the same as that makes me wonder about quality control should any of those phones be pretty far out of spec.
 
In short, if you don't need even 1/1000th of a watt, or 1 V to drive these cans to 90 dB, I would venture that most any portable amp would be up to the task. Probably even a single AAA battery, in theory. That and, contrary to specs, it looks like the LCD-3 actually is going to, on average, need a stronger amp - they are not as efficient as the HE-400s. Both operate at an impedance where a lot of amps produce quite a bit of power - I should have around a half-watt available from my O2, for example.
 
Don't get me wrong, I am a believer in amping the HE-400s, they don't really work as well off your phone, tablet, or computer. They eat up a little bass boost. But there is little need to invest in the multi-watt behemoths that some people prefer. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't play with a multi-watt behemoth anyway  . . .

 

[DDDamian]

^^^ that's where theory hits the wall lol. I keep reading how can xyz only needs a theoretical .196V etc and that they can be powered by a small solar cell or cricket in a wheel. Then you do a quick swap between your smartphone jack and a multi-watt bohemoth and discover what you've missed 

 

[Koolpep]

^^^ that's where theory hits the wall lol. I keep reading how can xyz only needs a theoretical .196V etc and that they can be powered by a small solar cell or cricket in a wheel. Then you do a quick swap between your smartphone jack and a multi-watt bohemoth and discover what you've missed :rolleyes:

Yep, am tired of that as well. Once you hear the HE-400 on a good amp - it's impossible to go back. Once you know what they can do. I have a ifi retro for review currently and my goodness that things works wonders with the HE-400 (and HE560) - the best I have ever heard them.

Cheers,
K

 

[fishymamba]

   
I don't know if it's been mentioned or not before (not fancy flipping through 1300+ of pages ), but HE-400 is what I call 'classic planar', meaning it's both low impedance and low efficiency, which is actually a 'nightmare' for small/portable amps. Low efficiency means it need more power (watt), Low impedance means it doesn't need very high voltage to overcome the resistance, but also means it needs higher/bigger stable current (ampere). 
 
 I don't really understand the full technicalities, but it seems cranking voltage (in an amp) is much easier than cranking current, thus providing a good amount, stable current seems to be a pain in the butt for portable amps. 
 
HE400:
- 92.5 dB/mW
- 35 ohms
 
Compare it to 'newer generation' of planar:
 
LCD-3
- 102 dB/mW
- 110 ohms
(from this data alone, LCD-3 is actually more efficient and easier to drive than M50 series)
 
Well, theory aside, I also used E10 (same, without k) before, and it seemed to be lacking a bit for HE400, at least for me. Not the volume (it can get quite loud on E10), but the overall sounds. Ended up selling it, and getting Aune T1.
 
Of course, best is to try it first. You might be content with the result of HE400 + E10. 

Thank you for the info! I was thinking of getting a new DAC + amp in the future, so if I find that the E10 is not working well with the HE-400s, I might get them a bit earlier. 

 

[fishymamba]

Its probably been mentioned somewhere deep in this thread but if you hate the stock pads as much as i do check out lawton audio's custom angled pads they make a MASSIVE difference in comfort.I've had them on mine for a couple months now and couldn't be happier

 
I hope the stock pads work OK for me, because there is no way I can justify spending $110 on earpads.
 
If I don't like the stock ones, I think I will try the focus pads which are much cheaper. 

 

[creatip]

 
From Innerfidelity, the HE-400 has been measured at more like 50 Ohms. 0.33 mW (0.129V rms) for 90 dB.
 
The LCD-3 has been measured at more like 60 Ohms, needing about 0.66 mW (0.196V rms) for 90 dB (twice as much power). There are several other S/Ns to look at, and most seem to measure slightly different impedance / power requirements (typically even more power). I find that troubling as I don't know if variation is product-to-product, or a result of how they were measured. I like the idea that products are damn near the same as that makes me wonder about quality control should any of those phones be pretty far out of spec.
 
In short, if you don't need even 1/1000th of a watt, or 1 V to drive these cans to 90 dB, I would venture that most any portable amp would be up to the task. Probably even a single AAA battery, in theory. That and, contrary to specs, it looks like the LCD-3 actually is going to, on average, need a stronger amp - they are not as efficient as the HE-400s. Both operate at an impedance where a lot of amps produce quite a bit of power - I should have around a half-watt available from my O2, for example.
 
Don't get me wrong, I am a believer in amping the HE-400s, they don't really work as well off your phone, tablet, or computer. They eat up a little bass boost. But there is little need to invest in the multi-watt behemoths that some people prefer. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't play with a multi-watt behemoth anyway  . . .

 
Yea that kinda bugged me too. I mean, they (the brands) post all this measurement, but who's to say that they're not BS-ing? People like Tyler can double check with their exotic measuring equipment but most end users like me would just have to take their words for it, and probably got scammed all this time in regard of the measurements. 
 
Then there's what you said. Different measurements could be the products' deviations, or variation of methods.
 
I once tried plugging LCD 3 (not mine) to a $30 basic phone, and it still sound good. Not very much different compared to plugging it into an astell&kern which they got there as well. In regard of volume/loudness, I felt that LCD-3 was a bit louder than HE400, plugged to the same phone. Probably just a feeling, as I didn't bring the HE400 for side by side comparison. In short, the gap I felt wasn't as big as when comparing HE400 plugged to an ipad jack out vs a desktop dac/amp. 
 

 
Talking about behemoths, I once tried plugging HE400 straight to the speaker out of a pre-amp + power-amp combo. They're cheap amps, so I don't really know the specs, but they were originally used to power standing speakers. I have to admit, I got quite good sounds from it. Too bad, being cheap, the amp combo got crazy noise floor. 
 
 
Oh, and here, for all you planar lovers, found this song on youtube that sounds AMAZING on HE-400:
 

 

[earwhore]

I hope the stock pads work OK for me, because there is no way I can justify spending $110 on earpads.

If I don't like the stock ones, I think I will try the focus pads which are much cheaper. 

they were very uncomfortable for me with how long I typically wear them for,I thought $110 was ridiculous too but if u wear them enough its well worth it

 

[fishymamba]

Got them! 
 
First impression without playing anything:
 
- Holy ****, this is a really thick cord. But it is pretty long. I'll probably get another one soon.
- Pretty heavy compared to my V6s, my neck will be getting a workout. 
-Built quality is much better than I expected. After all the people hating on their build, I was expecting much worse.Nice metal parts, and the cups feel solid not flimsy.
-Feel comfortable on my head, but only time will tell.
 
Time to go get some listening done!

 

[zozoxkarii]

  Got them! 
 
First impression without playing anything:
 
- Holy ****, this is a really thick cord. But it is pretty long. I'll probably get another one soon.
- Pretty heavy compared to my V6s, my neck will be getting a workout. 
-Built quality is much better than I expected. After all the people hating on their build, I was expecting much worse.Nice metal parts, and the cups feel solid not flimsy.
-Feel comfortable on my head, but only time will tell.
 
Time to go get some listening done!
 

I wish you this best of luck! The bass will blow you away. I swear...

 

[Oregonian]

Yep, am tired of that as well. Once you hear the HE-400 on a good amp - it's impossible to go back. Once you know what they can do. I have a ifi retro for review currently and my goodness that things works wonders with the HE-400 (and HE560) - the best I have ever heard them.

Cheers,
K

This^............and I'll kick it up a notch or ten.  My HE-400 (modded with open grill mod, Audeze Vegan pads) run out of the speaker taps of a vintage Pioneer Spec amp is incredible.  Allowed me to sell the HE-6 and not skip a beat. 

 

[richard51]

 
This^............and I'll kick it up a notch or ten.  My HE-400 (modded with open grill mod, Audeze Vegan pads) run out of the speaker taps of a vintage Pioneer Spec amp is incredible.  Allowed me to sell the HE-6 and not skip a beat. 

that is a testimony.... in fact the most incredible testimony about the he 400 i have read here..... I own one and your experience means a lot for me not only to control my  upgraditis but to realize that quality and price are not linear function of one another...

thanks very much
 
by the way you must try the sorbothane mod....

 

[Koolpep]

This^............and I'll kick it up a notch or ten.  My HE-400 (modded with open grill mod, Audeze Vegan pads) run out of the speaker taps of a vintage Pioneer Spec amp is incredible.  Allowed me to sell the HE-6 and not skip a beat. 

How about this: My HE-400 has the grill mod and I run it usually (when I don't have the retro) via the HE-Adapter from Hifiman from the speaker taps of a 40 years old vintage Sansui (when they were world class) aomplifier from the speaker taps. Only issue is of course that you also need a balanced cable for them.

You need to hear that to see the light it's amazing, the HE-560 as well, they both pick up a notch....

Cheers,
K

 

[iamxLn]

Without reading all 1370 pages can us new owners get a quick recap of the mods?
 

1. What benefits does the grill mod have? What do we lose with it? I assume we gain some clarity and sound stage at the cost of bass?
2. I've looked, i really can't find any hard details on the sorbothane mod. Help please?
3. What do we gain/lose with the $10 velours
4. How about the focus (a?) pads? 
5. Do these love tubes? Lyr 2? Typical planar?

 
Sorry, I generally do my research, but this thread is just massive. I've read a lot of people saying these things are better, but couldn't find any exact details why. I'm loving the bass on them and would hate to get into some of these mods only to have another flat headphone, and the beyers already fill that spot for me. 

 

[Lohb]

  Without reading all 1370 pages can us new owners get a quick recap of the mods?
 

1. What benefits does the grill mod have? What do we lose with it? I assume we gain some clarity and sound stage at the cost of bass?
2. I've looked, i really can't find any hard details on the sorbothane mod. Help please?
3. What do we gain/lose with the $10 velours
4. How about the focus (a?) pads? 
5. Do these love tubes? Lyr 2? Typical planar?

 
Sorry, I generally do my research, but this thread is just massive. I've read a lot of people saying these things are better, but couldn't find any exact details why. I'm loving the bass on them and would hate to get into some of these mods only to have another flat headphone, and the beyers already fill that spot for me. 

Flip your grill off with a credit card, it takes seconds to do.Test them fully open to get an idea yourself what it does without any expectation bias
Just wedge it under the black rim clip that is on top of the grilland pop it off.There are 4 clips on the ring.Be sure not to break them.
Tube amping will take the edge off the treble if you find the treble biting.