[htr2d2]

  holy hell, HE-400 for $179.99 http://warehousedeals.aloaudio.com/all-products/hifiman-he-400
 
best price i ever seen for a new one. almost wanna pick up a pair again
 
edit: nvm, may not be new. says on their website that: "All in very limited quantities and available only while supplies last.  New-old stock, open boxes, slightly damaged, scuffed and/or discontinued products"

bummer. No add to cart button so much have sold out. Used or otherwise, I would have bought them at $179 for use at the office.

 

[coletrain104]

What do people here think is a good price for HE-400 with all 3 types of pads? just curious.

 

[theblueprint]

  What do people here think is a good price for HE-400 with all 3 types of pads? just curious.

 
I got a used (but pretty much new) HE-400 with pleather, velours, and focus pads for $260. I thought it was a pretty good deal when I got it a couple months ago seeing that most of the used HE-400s were going for $220ish on ebay. I figured that if I was going to spend $40 + shipping on new Focus Pads, I might as well go for it. 

 

[DavidA]

   
I got a used (but pretty much new) HE-400 with pleather, velours, and focus pads for $260. I thought it was a pretty good deal when I got it a couple months ago seeing that most of the used HE-400s were going for $220ish on ebay. I figured that if I was going to spend $40 + shipping on new Focus Pads, I might as well go for it. 

good price, the velour pads are $10 + shipping so even better deal

 

[money4me247]

i sold my he-400 with all three pads (pleather/velour/focus) at $250. gave em a special head-fi discount

 

[coletrain104]

ok, more than I expected honestly. Prices have gone down a bit now, so I may part with mine for less when I do. Whenever that is. Possibly Capitol Audiofest. 

 

[Tai1or Made]

Just subscribing to this to see what's going on in the HE400 world.

 

[Kodhifi]

This makes me a sad panda. I just unboxed my HE-400's tonight after hearing them favorably compared to the sound of the DT990, my favorite headphones. I got to say I don't hear it. I have an EC5 DAC/AMP that lets me plug in both at once and quickly swapping back and forth 2 things are apparent, the 990's sound muddy compared to the 400's, and the 990's still sound better. The 400's really sound off to me, and it has to do with their frequency presentation, I've tried playing with EQ to get me through the burn in but it only makes it worse. The best way I can describe it is take a good pair of circumaural headphones, grab the cans, and lift them a half inch away from your ears. Hear how they are suddenly very trebly and tinny, the bass drops out, and the acoustics go off like playing speakers in an echoey room. That's what the 400's sound like to me, good speakers in a terrible listening environment but no matter which way I position them on my head, pressing them against my head, even covering them with my hands, they just don't sound right, they are echoey.
 
Every once in awhile I find a track that sounds amazing on them, but the overwhelming majority of the songs I've thrown at it would sound better on the 990's. Yes the 400's definitely have a wider soundstage and individual instruments really inhabit their own space but that space is echoey, treble laden, and it sounds live. You might like live sound, I have always preferred the studio albums to the live versions.
 
I'm really, honestly, hoping beyond hope that it will improve with burn in. These are my first pair of orthodynamic. I've had burn in radically improve cans before. The Q701's sounded like poop out of the box and burn in improved them a lot but never to the point I liked them very much.
 
Also the 400's are so open. The 990's are open but these are like, mouse farting in the other room and I hear it open. Like I lift my hands to adjust the cans and i hear resonant formants as my hands get near.
 
I may send them back and get the 650's if this doesn't improve which makes me very sad as I love the concept of orthodynamics and they are as close as my budget is going to get me to something like a ribbon speaker.
 
Oh one more thing, the cables stab me in the shoulders. The one good thing is after hearing all the horror stories about the cable, I found just a normal, very flexible, grey plastic headphone cable. It's not overly stiff, has a grey/black insulator that is soft and flexible like my Beyerdynamics. They might have improved that.

 

[money4me247]

@Kodhifi, I would say do not count on "burn-in," but do please give the HE-400 some time to allow your brain to adjust to their different sound signature. Your brain naturally prefers the sound signature you are most familiar with. Try some solid head-time with the HE-400 without constantly referring back to your old headphones, and then compare to see if you feel the same way.
 
cheers!

 

[coletrain104]

  This makes me a sad panda. I just unboxed my HE-400's tonight after hearing them favorably compared to the sound of the DT990, my favorite headphones. I got to say I don't hear it. I have an EC5 DAC/AMP that lets me plug in both at once and quickly swapping back and forth 2 things are apparent, the 990's sound muddy compared to the 400's, and the 990's still sound better. The 400's really sound off to me, and it has to do with their frequency presentation, I've tried playing with EQ to get me through the burn in but it only makes it worse. The best way I can describe it is take a good pair of circumaural headphones, grab the cans, and lift them a half inch away from your ears. Hear how they are suddenly very trebly and tinny, the bass drops out, and the acoustics go off like playing speakers in an echoey room. That's what the 400's sound like to me, good speakers in a terrible listening environment but no matter which way I position them on my head, pressing them against my head, even covering them with my hands, they just don't sound right, they are echoey.
 
Every once in awhile I find a track that sounds amazing on them, but the overwhelming majority of the songs I've thrown at it would sound better on the 990's. Yes the 400's definitely have a wider soundstage and individual instruments really inhabit their own space but that space is echoey, treble laden, and it sounds live. You might like live sound, I have always preferred the studio albums to the live versions.
 
I'm really, honestly, hoping beyond hope that it will improve with burn in. These are my first pair of orthodynamic. I've had burn in radically improve cans before. The Q701's sounded like poop out of the box and burn in improved them a lot but never to the point I liked them very much.
 
Also the 400's are so open. The 990's are open but these are like, mouse farting in the other room and I hear it open. Like I lift my hands to adjust the cans and i hear resonant formics as my hands get near.
 
I may send them back and get the 650's if this doesn't improve which makes me very sad as I love the concept of orthodynamics and they are as close as my budget is going to get me to something like a ribbon speaker.
 
Oh one more thing, the cables stab me in the shoulders. The one good thing is after hearing all the horror stories about the cable, I found just a normal, very flexible, grey plastic headphone cable. It's not overly stiff, has a grey/black insulator that is soft and flexible like my Beyerdynamics. They might have improved that.

It's funny, I've taken some time to listen to these headphones again and I agree with most of your points. Depending on your style of music, they may not do very well. I like them for rock. And the velours are less echo-ey than the pleathers, focus less echo-ey than velours, but I have some negative thoughts on the focuspads as well. I wouldn't go for it, I honestly find the velours the best, and some of what I thought about focuspads was definitely due to expectation bias. If the echoey sound is from distortion in the mids, the fuzzor mod might get rid of it. For the HE-400, its more of a backwave damper than fazor, but I hear it works nicely. Anyways, the 400 doesn't have the bass quantity that some people make them out to have, and from FR graphs I imagine that the 400 sounds much less bassy than 990 and brighter. I will just say that I doubt you will hear any changes, but its also possible that you will grow to like the sound. Welcome

 

[money4me247]

ya, usually ppl r talkin more abt the he400s bass quality than pure quantity as these are open headphones.

dynamic drivers simply cannot extend as low or have the same linearity that orthos can deliver

 

[DavidA]

  It's funny, I've taken some time to listen to these headphones again and I agree with most of your points. Depending on your style of music, they may not do very well. I like them for rock. And the velours are less echo-ey than the pleathers, focus less echo-ey than velours, but I have some negative thoughts on the focuspads as well. I wouldn't go for it, I honestly find the velours the best, and some of what I thought about focuspads was definitely due to expectation bias. If the echoey sound is from distortion in the mids, the fuzzor mod might get rid of it. For the HE-400, its more of a backwave damper than fazor, but I hear it works nicely. Anyways, the 400 doesn't have the bass quantity that some people make them out to have, and from FR graphs I imagine that the 400 sounds much less bassy than 990 and brighter. I will just say that I doubt you will hear any changes, but its also possible that you will grow to like the sound. Welcome

I had some ringing with certain songs and after doing the grill mod it hasn't done it since.  Might want to try and take off the stock grills and see if the echo goes away.

 

[MrMateoHead]

  the 990's sound muddy compared to the 400's, and the 990's still sound better. The 400's really sound off to me, and it has to do with their frequency presentation, I've tried playing with EQ to get me through the burn in but it only makes it worse. That's what the 400's sound like to me, good speakers in a terrible listening environment but no matter which way I position them on my head, pressing them against my head, even covering them with my hands, they just don't sound right, they are echoey.
 
Every once in awhile I find a track that sounds amazing on them, but the overwhelming majority of the songs I've thrown at it would sound better on the 990's. Yes the 400's definitely have a wider soundstage and individual instruments really inhabit their own space but that space is echoey, treble laden, and it sounds live. You might like live sound, I have always preferred the studio albums to the live versions.
 
I'm really, honestly, hoping beyond hope that it will improve with burn in. These are my first pair of orthodynamic. I've had burn in radically improve cans before. The Q701's sounded like poop out of the box and burn in improved them a lot but never to the point I liked them very much.
 
I may send them back and get the 650's if this doesn't improve which makes me very sad as I love the concept of orthodynamics and they are as close as my budget is going to get me to something like a ribbon speaker.
 
Oh one more thing, the cables stab me in the shoulders. The one good thing is after hearing all the horror stories about the cable, I found just a normal, very flexible, grey plastic headphone cable. It's not overly stiff, has a grey/black insulator that is soft and flexible like my Beyerdynamics. They might have improved that.

*To point out the obvious stuff, you should gently pinch the plastic part with the logo, and twist the cups to fit your head (very stiff parts). You should also wear the phones long enough for the pleather to heat up a tad (it is winter where I am), so the memory foam can do its thing. You may need to bend the headband slightly for best fit.
 
*The frequency response of the phones I will not comment on, as it is a:

 
*EQ'ing wheen you haven't even spent much time listening (or think you prfer the 990s) makes no sense at all ("to get through burn-in"). The HE-400 seem to disappoint every first-time listener (I was underwhelmed too) - but if you keep em on for a week or so I am sure you'll start to "get it" - then you will want to trim the treble a tad and be talking about dat' bass!

 
*The HE-400 are unforgiving of badly recorded music (yes, studio OR live). Echoey-resonant, crappy sounding recording in = Echoey-resonant, crappy sounding music out. Also, the HE-400 are fast, probably faster than anything else you've ever heard, and present a bass response /texture that is brand new to your ears. That takes some getting used to (my old senns, by comparison, are slowwwwwww and bass notes are mud). If you hear crackle, pop, or piercing mids / treble, I will wager $100 that it is partly your music, not your headphones, that are driving you crazy.
 
*I know nothing of your amp, but I do know the HE-400 benefit from good amps with more than your average amount of iPod / Computer / Cell phone power. The overall bass does firm up.
 
*I hate the cables too, but aside from re-doing them completely, am stuck with them! But I also have huge shoulders and they don't touch at all. Spend time adjusting head band etc.
 
*The HD-650s are legendary and much preferred on this site, it seems. But how that would be your next go-to after choosing an HE-400 is beyond me.
 
*IF you still hate the HE-400s after a week or so, give up, they probably really aren't for you. BUT if you don't, read about the mods / velour pads etc. There are some easy ways to improve on the sound a bit. There are good reasons that these were considered best in their price range a couple years ago.

 

[coletrain104]

 
I had some ringing with certain songs and after doing the grill mod it hasn't done it since.  Might want to try and take off the stock grills and see if the echo goes away.

I did forget to mention this. I can support this statement, stock grill has much to do with the echo. I just never took the initiative to make modded grills.

 

[Kodhifi]

Good comments all around. I listened to them for 12 hours yesterday and they seemed to become more neutral about 3 hours in and I went back and played my opening salvo of songs and noted a few improvements but after that session I put my 990's back on and immediately became aware of everything the 400's weren't doing for me. The bass is no comparison, the 990's are about 6db higher in the sub70hz region without sounding muddy or boomy (they are open headphones as well). After listening to the HE's for so many hours, suddenly the 990's didn't sound nearly as bright by comparison.....let that sink in a moment, 990's sounding not sparkly......
 
I ordered some velour pads at the same time as the cans but they aren't in yet. I hate pleather in general, and wide open pleather does tend to introduce phasing, and reverberation artifacts because the area it's not touching around your ear becomes an echo chamber. The 990's seem to be both larger inside so I have no trouble fitting my ear in, but also smaller in diameter. I know on my MD6's going to velour was night and day both for comfort, and for sound.
 
I have 3 DAC/Amps and 1 dedicated 1watt amp at my disposal. The EC5 has 650mw @ 32 ohm and is running off a 120db top end cirrus logic DAC. I also tried the Fulla, an Audioengine D1, and Audioengine into an E9 Fiio 1 watt amp. They got plenty loud and some songs presented delightful bass with good extension. They are more than capable of infrasonics but they aren't particularly loud infrasonics. If you're sensitive to bass like I am then you hear them but they aren't necessarily presented with any authority.
 
The 400's really do have a dark/bright sound that is hard to describe but I'm convinced that 50% of what I don't like isn't the driver it's the enclosure and I hope that if I can figure out how to fix it's acoustic reflections that the signature will improve rapidly.
 
I can get what they are trying to do and why people might like them for some types of music. Listening to singer/songwriter acoustic guitar stuff like Jewel's pieces of you, Barnaby Bright, Sarah Mclaughlin's fumbling towards extascy were enjoyable because of the way the drives uncompress the dynamic range, I think that widening of the dynamic range and soundfield is why suddenly the singers voice floats in it's own space, the drums are back there in their own universe, the bass guitar is off to the side in another galaxy of space etc.
 
 
And I really do get the recording quality being an issue. Several previously good tracks, I could hear that they put too much dynamic compression on the singers voice and it sounded un-natural on the 400's but sounded fine on other cans.
 
I'm not going to be hasty with any decisions and at the $300 price point I'm not super concerned about returning if I don't love them, but it comes down to, if I won't use them, I won't keep them. I was looking for a replacement for my 990's and I can already tell I won't be falling asleep with these on (although thats exactly what I did last night lol).
 
 
The swivels weren't hidden, almost all headphones do it and I tried adjusting everything. The reason I would EQ a new headphone is because it's christmas morning and I don't want to wait for my presents. If the headphones are being ruined because of a peak, you turn that peak low to get an idea of how they might sound when they break in. It also lets you listen to them with less ear scratching pain while thee mechanical bits wear against each other and start to open up. I don't EQ my 990's at all but when they were breaking in you better believe I had a -3db shelf from 6.5k up or my ears would have caught fire.