[Koolpep]

*The HD-650s are legendary and much preferred on this site, it seems. But how that would be your next go-to after choosing an HE-400 is beyond me.

Hi,

I have the HE-400 for a few month now and really like them, however, I just received HD650 and overall, they are amazing. And I still like the HE-400 too

Cheers,
K

 

[Kodhifi]

I wanted to try the other side of the fence from Beyerdynamic, of which I am an admitted fanboy. I didn't want to spend more than $300 and my 2 choices of cans I'd like to have in that range are HD650 or HE400.
 
If I don't find anything suitable I will probably take a gamble and get the T90. I would have already gotten it if I had heard it had the same sound signature as the 990's but I've heard it's a very different sound. I was hoping they'd have just taken the 990's and put the tesla coils in them.

 

[DavidA]

  *EQ'ing wheen you haven't even spent much time listening (or think you prfer the 990s) makes no sense at all ("to get through burn-in"). The HE-400 seem to disappoint every first-time listener (I was underwhelmed too) - but if you keep em on for a week or so I am sure you'll start to "get it" - then you will want to trim the treble a tad and be talking about dat' bass!

 
*The HE-400 are unforgiving of badly recorded music (yes, studio OR live). Echoey-resonant, crappy sounding recording in = Echoey-resonant, crappy sounding music out. Also, the HE-400 are fast, probably faster than anything else you've ever heard, and present a bass response /texture that is brand new to your ears. That takes some getting used to (my old senns, by comparison, are slowwwwwww and bass notes are mud). If you hear crackle, pop, or piercing mids / treble, I will wager $100 that it is partly your music, not your headphones, that are driving you crazy.
 
*I know nothing of your amp, but I do know the HE-400 benefit from good amps with more than your average amount of iPod / Computer / Cell phone power. The overall bass does firm up.
 
*I hate the cables too, but aside from re-doing them completely, am stuck with them! But I also have huge shoulders and they don't touch at all. Spend time adjusting head band etc.
 
*The HD-650s are legendary and much preferred on this site, it seems. But how that would be your next go-to after choosing an HE-400 is beyond me.
 
*IF you still hate the HE-400s after a week or so, give up, they probably really aren't for you. BUT if you don't, read about the mods / velour pads etc. There are some easy ways to improve on the sound a bit. There are good reasons that these were considered best in their price range a couple years ago.

EQ: +1, I never liked to do this
 
Bad recordings:  Like a computer, garbage-in  - garbage -out.  Type of music is an issue with these, l like mostly classic rock, stuff from the 80's, J-pop, K-pop on the HE-400, other genre don't sound that great to me on these.
 
HE-400 needs amp to be happy:  I was happy with Xonar DG for first few months until I heard them on a friends Lyr, ordered a Lyr2 the next day.   Even better is the project ember.
 
Cables:  agree, but better than HE-400i
 
HD-650:  I got mine after having the HE-400's for 8 months, only because they were $290 but after having them for a short period I get it why these are compared to often.
 
Still love the HE-400, ordered the velour pads and new cable when I originally ordered phone.  Did the grill mod a few months later, also made grills for HE-400i and HE-560.

 

[Kodhifi]

I have pretty wide ranging tastes. Here are some of the tracks I auditioned
 
Take 5 - Dave Brubeck Quartet
Last Dance - Sarah Mclaughlin
Little Sister - Jewel
Take you away - Angus and Julia Stone
Yellow Moon and Girl in the Cage - Barnaby Bright
Rock It - Herbie Hancock
A night in tunisia - Charles Mingus
1812 overture - Tchaikovsky
breakin a sweat - Skrillex
Come to Daddy - AFX
Angel of the Morning - Juice Newton
Total Eclipse of the Hart -Bonnie Tyler
Wake me up before you gogo - Wham
Mr Roboto - Styx
Rosana - Toto
Hurt - NIN
Hurt - Johnny Cash
Pink Bullets - The Shins
My posse on broadway - Sir Mix A-Lot
Under Pressure - Queen and David Bowie
Innuendo - Queen
No Cars Go - Arcade Fire
Highschool Lover - Cayucas
Junior the entire album - Roykssop
Silent Shout - The Knife
Wilderness - Archer Prewitt
I wanna be adored - Stone Roses
Under the Killing Moon - Echo and the Bunneymen
How does a duck know - Crash test dummies
Squorm - Ramona Falls
Kites - Geographer
Various tracks Binaural - Gordon Hempton
Mudfootball - Jack Johnson
Lilac Wine - Jeff Buckley
Keys to the Kingdom - UNCLE

 

[money4me247]

  *The HE-400 are unforgiving of badly recorded music (yes, studio OR live). Echoey-resonant, crappy sounding recording in = Echoey-resonant, crappy sounding music out. Also, the HE-400 are fast, probably faster than anything else you've ever heard, and present a bass response /texture that is brand new to your ears. That takes some getting used to (my old senns, by comparison, are slowwwwwww and bass notes are mud). If you hear crackle, pop, or piercing mids / treble, I will wager $100 that it is partly your music, not your headphones, that are driving you crazy.
 
*The HD-650s are legendary and much preferred on this site, it seems. But how that would be your next go-to after choosing an HE-400 is beyond me.
 
*IF you still hate the HE-400s after a week or so, give up, they probably really aren't for you. BUT if you don't, read about the mods / velour pads etc. There are some easy ways to improve on the sound a bit. There are good reasons that these were considered best in their price range a couple years ago.

Good advice here. Totally agree with the unforgiving nature of the HE-400. Really requires 320kbps mp3 source at least. Some poorly mastered recordings will just sound bad on HE-400.
 
Mmm... I think the HD650 is a natural choice after the HE-400. In the mid-fi range with good bass quality. The HE-400 and HD650 often get compared against each other. I personally preferred the HE-400 despite its quirks.
 
And at the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, just move on. Not every pair of headphone suits everyone. I really did enjoy my HE-400s though so I recommend at least putting it through its paces and giving it a fair chance

 

[Kodhifi]

OMG. Bonnie Prince Billy " I See a Darkness" I can hear every vibration of the bass, it's not just a low boom it's got texture.

 

[richard51]

i have the he 400 for more than one year now..... No need of equalization... they sound great in competition with my stax basic system and i prefer the he 400.....If you think they sound harsh , you need some good amp and cable and a good dac.... the Ember of garage 1217 is perfect for all headphones....The 6ns7 tube is a miraculous cure for the he 400 and transform them in one of the best headphone on the market with is quality /price ratio.... i repeat all that i had already said, because for almost 2 years i read here plenty of posts about equalizer and equalization necessary for the he 400...

 

[diamondears]

Agree with you. I use the O2 with OCC copper cable interconnect plugged from my Audiolab 8200CD player and DAC using the non-standard digital filters and it sounds really great. It's on the high resolution side, but never found it harsh nor needing EQ.

 

[Oregonian]

When I had my HE-400 I ran them out of vintage amps - and when paired with my top of the line Pioneer Spec they sounded almost as good as my HE-6.  Point I'm babbling about is the guys who say they need good amplification are right - and I also EQ'd them to be a bit V shaped as well. 

 

[raybone0566]

I ran my 400's with my ifi nano/ modi combo lastnight and the sound was great. For $240.00 these cans are a great bargain. The bass is just fantastic.

 

[Kodhifi]

Guys, trust me, it's not the amp or my DAC. I have a large headphone collection, several 600ohm cans, and I have power to spare. My DAC is a top of the line consumer DAC, IE not boutique. I also have mutliple DAC's and amps to try, it doesn't make a difference. It's not a power problem it's an echo problem.
 
It's difficult to put into words what is wrong. I hear it, I know it, how to describe it. I think it stems partly from sound leakage from the outside in, partly from reflections between the pad, my ear, and the side of my head, partly from a lack of dampening in the enclosure, and partly the relatively hard, echoey pleather earcups. The sound doesn't sound like the cups are on all the way, but they are. This results in phase distortion where some frequencies are completely unaffected, and others are heavily colored. Some vocalists come through clear like I'm used to, others the voice is a phantasm floating somewhere between my ears.
 
Some sounds are harsh, some are so harsh they are sibilant or resonant.
 
They don't sound right, I don't know a better way to put it. The drivers are probably awesome but they aren't making a direct and single path connection to my ear canal, the sound is taking side trips and phase cancelling or wave doubling on some frequencies.
 
I played around with the EQ a bit more last night and I found the sound was more natural with a 2-3db bump at 1k and 2k. So if anything it's not that they need a V shape, they need a ^ shape. And I'm not a big midrange guy either, I usually like a scooped sound but the response in many songs is just un-natural and conspicuously echoey like a room with bad acoustics. It's improved somewhat, especially in the upper mid range. They definitely are breaking in some with the highs becoming less like a laser ray and more like champagne bubbles against your nose. The detail is starting to come out as well. 2 songs on the 400's blew my mind last night and I can see their potential.
 
Bonnie prince Billy - I See a Darkness. I heard things I haven't noticed before in that song. His voice cracking and how loudly he was singing became much more natural and apparent and it added an emotional depth to the performance on top of what was already there. And the bass, I could hear the bass string whacking air out of the way. As a sometime bass player, this is something you hear when playing but never in a recording. There just isn't enough detail to resolve anything but the boom and the note.
 
 
The other one was surprising because it's not a song I would ever have thought of as challenging or hi fidelity. David Bowie's Space Oddity. I've heard that song probably a hundred times. It is usually a somewhat thin, dry guitar without much sonic complexity other than the psychadelic electric parts. Basically a folk song with a scifi glitz on it. But in the he400's, the sound field was so expanded, I could wrap my ears around each instrument, and tell everything about it's sound. It's like listening with a magnifying glass, you settle your ears on one instrument in the mix, and it's easier to see it's detail. I was particularly struck by the string section. I am not 100% on if it is a melotron or a real orchestra, but on the 400's it was as dry and isolated as a 100 year old cedar plank. I have never heard anything that was so other worldly and well defined in audible space. It was like the music equivalent of 3d glasses and seeing something pop out of the page for the first time.
 
Then my wife went to bed And the headphones went up And I went back to my 990's Which still sound excellent, are easy to listen to, and give me a different experience.
 
I'm not going to make a hasty decision. My velour earpads will be here today. I might try putting some auralex foam on the outside of the earcup (I don't want to take them apart in case I decide to return) and see if I can help that sound echo.

 

[Kodhifi]

It was the @#$@#$ leather earpads. My velour replacements came in tonight. Tight acoustic seal now, bass sounds strong but normal, mids are no longer echoey. The sound signature is completely different. Seriously I don't know how anybody could deal with these using the stock leatherettes, it's the biggest change in sound character I've ever experienced just from changing pads. There is a midrange now as well.

 

[DavidA]

  It was the @#$@#$ leather earpads. My velour replacements came in tonight. Tight acoustic seal now, bass sounds strong but normal, mids are no longer echoey. The sound signature is completely different. Seriously I don't know how anybody could deal with these using the stock leatherettes, it's the biggest change in sound character I've ever experienced just from changing pads. There is a midrange now as well.

Glad you can enjoy the HE-400 now!

 

[money4me247]

velour pads greatly improve the comfort as well. no more hot ears. only hot tracks!

 

[Kodhifi]

Thanks man, I'm still auditioning all over again grumble grumble. Listening to Space Oddity again. I get the 990 comparison now but the midrange on these is definitely more forward while the overall sound seems to be slightly darker but sparkly at the top. In a weird way it reminds me of a time when I was a kid and my dads friend let me listen to a few records on his high fidelity system and I could hear the sizzle of every cymbal crash, not just from the excellent speakers that guy had, but from the record needle. I've always been sensitive to high frequencies, even at 40yrs old I hear 17,000hz clearly, and there are little experiences that are hard to capture with headphones and speakers. That was one of them, a record needle and it's high pitched mosquito version of the song you're listening to, and others like the sound a pick makes scraping across metal guitar strings, the way a cymbal sizzles without sounding wishy washy, The blunt force of a bass string flying back and forth through the air as it vibrates, Even the way a paper speaker cone driven by a tube distortion starts to break up and go modal. I intend to test all of that on the 400's.
 
I'm 5 tracks in and the timbre of different sounds is finally sounding like something approaching normalcy. Listening to Crash Into Me by Dave Matthews right now, and listening to the incredible snare work the drummer is doing, as a drummer myself, makes me moist. AT THE EYES PERVS.
 
Edit And it's official, welcome to my collection my sweets.